That's fine we got teleporting lictors in their stead in MO2. Great game. Replace legendary thieves with 1 shotting npcs.
Will Mortal Online 2 Survive The Next 2 Years
- Thread starter Teknique
- Start date
I've seen players outrun the guards when outside of town. In town they will have harder time due to dense guard numbers and overlapping line of sight. But it is possible to escape from them, so I don't think it's teleport one-shot guards.
Each mechanic like thievery, is going to need to fit into the PvP rules architecture which is still very much in the early design stage.
If they make it so you can ID and kill thieves, all we are going to have is naked thieves everywhere. I don’t think this game can take anymore immersion breaking bullshit. Flying pigs is one thing, it’s a bug, but asshole simulator bullshit like thievery like they had in MO1 is why these games can’t retain their population.
If we are going to have thievery, they need to make it so thieves risk something to gain something and have a reason to wear clothes and equipment so they drop something of value. Don’t let it just be a grief mechanic, make it an actual profession.
Like holistically the point of Mortal Online as a game and as a game design is to create player driven content, player interaction… that is Mortal Onlines big pitch, freedom to do what you want but the biggest issue is that these mechanics are always exploitable in some cheesy way that makes the interactions and use of those mechanics just an excuse to be a grade A, a-hole without purpose , just being a tool for griefing people to the point where the game looks stupid and is stupid, agrivating you to logout and quit.
Like I think thieving can be really cool if done right but so far all the implementation I have see of such mechanics were so bad they just made the game bad, created grief interactions and were easily exploitable.
If they make it so you can ID and kill thieves, all we are going to have is naked thieves everywhere. I don’t think this game can take anymore immersion breaking bullshit. Flying pigs is one thing, it’s a bug, but asshole simulator bullshit like thievery like they had in MO1 is why these games can’t retain their population.
If we are going to have thievery, they need to make it so thieves risk something to gain something and have a reason to wear clothes and equipment so they drop something of value. Don’t let it just be a grief mechanic, make it an actual profession.
Like holistically the point of Mortal Online as a game and as a game design is to create player driven content, player interaction… that is Mortal Onlines big pitch, freedom to do what you want but the biggest issue is that these mechanics are always exploitable in some cheesy way that makes the interactions and use of those mechanics just an excuse to be a grade A, a-hole without purpose , just being a tool for griefing people to the point where the game looks stupid and is stupid, agrivating you to logout and quit.
Like I think thieving can be really cool if done right but so far all the implementation I have see of such mechanics were so bad they just made the game bad, created grief interactions and were easily exploitable.
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The thing about thievery is that it's supposed to get other players involved, whether that's to go anti-thief or make people watchful of who is around them. An entire school of gameplay emerged just for thievery alone in MO1.
We can bemoan the thievery mechanic but it is part of what made MO1 the cult classic that it is in a league of its own. Without it, MO2 would be lacking part of its soul, and people like me wouldn't be playing it if it wasn't going to be in the game even as a non-thief.
Other games can have their tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of players. But compared to MO2 they're what I would call "seen it, done it" games - Overdone, uninspiring and clearly made to grab the biggest share of the pie as possible but not much else.
Not that I disagree with you in terms of MO being a one of a kind, niche but far more interesting game then the countless out there who’s names I can’t remember. I like Henrik, Starvault and there collective vision and I agree with Henrik on most things.
But MO can’t just be an unrealized vision, it still needs to be a game, it needs a dedicated player base and there needs to be enough content and things to do in the game to prevent veteran players from camping graveyards so they can kill newbies out of sheer boredom or sit around in town and harass/grief people just to get a rise out of people.
I do think in part this may be why Starvault is so focused on getting TC out, there may be some logic to giving vets more to do so they spend less time turning MO2 into an asshole simulator.
My hope however is that they really spend some time thinking about the benefits and drawbacks of each mechanic and what impact it will have on the games community.
Thievery for example I think you are being disingenuous when claiming this is what made MO1 a classic and beloved game. Thievery was universally the single most hated and complained about mechanic in MO1. I would even argue that it is likely one of the key mechanics that resulted in new player retention issues.
It was one thing to get ganked outside of town as a new player, it was another to get robbed of your belongings while you where waiting for the game to load. The entire mechanic was basically an exploit, more people quit and/or were banned as a result of thievery mechanics then all other things in the game combined.
You really have to ask, is it really worth the trouble?
I don't think I was being disingenuous when I said MO1 was a cult classic, which means obscure or unpopular with mainstream audiences, and often revolutionary or ironically enjoyed.
I agree(ed) with that part, as I would imagine many returning MO players would agree, but thievery was definitely not on the majority of peoples lists that made it so. Thievery was almost unanimously despised, it was, by a large margin, THE most complained about mechanic in MO1. It’s exclusion in MO2 is a loss to only the most minority of the community. If it never makes it into the game, it would be to soon.
Mo2 was death by a 1000 cuts. Each individual cut looks essentially like one of your posts. Thievery was a piece of content. I can’t think of a single thing of importance that was ever stolen from me. On the other hand I had quite a bit of fun stealing low value items. Few gold coins, occasional pet receipt or house deed. I don’t understand people who come to a game just to shit on everything about it. That’s how we ended up with mo2
Your probably
This of course gave credence to complaints coming from simple opinions, like people disliked thievery as a concept.
There is however a difference. Create a functioning mechanic that can’t be exploited, I’m fine with it but I rather it not exist at all than have a bugged version that gets exploited
You are probably right, but I think the jist of it was so many elements in MO1 didn’t work as design intended. Thievery for example had a number of exploits including things like being able to steal from player banks under certain circumstances, login or log off delay stealing and stuff like that. It was the bugs and methods of exploiting these various mechanics that were the root cause of much of the complaining and frustration.
This of course gave credence to complaints coming from simple opinions, like people disliked thievery as a concept.
There is however a difference. Create a functioning mechanic that can’t be exploited, I’m fine with it but I rather it not exist at all than have a bugged version that gets exploited
I don't believe that to be the case, thievery was in the game quite early in MO1 and complaints about it was minimal for the 7 years or so that I played. Majority of complaints centred around node lines, balance, crashes, dupes and TC which was badly implemented.
Thievery on the other hand, was at most a nuisance to players from what I've observed in-game, on the forums and elsewhere.
"Minimal"
Only a couple hundred people played MO1 regularly. Everything was minimal. Let me get this straight...you want to emulate the game that already died? Again please feel free to waybackmachine the DFUW forums.
This exact same scenario already played out with disastrous conclusions.
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MO1 was always a very niche game that did well in attracting its target audience. High player numbers was never the motivation for Henrik and Co. to make the game (and thievery) in the first place.
If you want to call it "disastrous", by all means, but that's like saying the game failed because it didn't attract the mainstream crowd which for some reason is the standard that some people are judging this game by.
As for DFUW, I very much doubt that thievery was the root cause of its demise, if that game even had thievery at all.
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You don't understand my argument. Game needs to focus on progression loops and content that are accessible to wide varieties of players and playstyles. That's what's pay the bills. 20 employees are going to be demanding on payroll, I will absolutely not pay a sub for this game in its current state, I can find better value elsewhere, many are in the same boat. Game needs to move forward, not backward. As other people have pointed out, thieving isn't going to add anything to the game, other then another way to be griefed in town by a naked.
You don't understand my argument. Game needs to focus on progression loops and content that are accessible to wide varieties of players and playstyles. That's what's pay the bills. 20 employees are going to be demanding on payroll, I will absolutely not pay a sub for this game in its current state, I can find better value elsewhere, many are in the same boat. Game needs to move forward, not backward. As other people have pointed out, thieving isn't going to add anything to the game, other then another way to be griefed in town by a naked.
No one is denying the game needs progression loops and plenty of content. The problem is if you want accessibility to a wide variety of players and playstyles you invariably have to dumb the game down at some point. The mainstream segment of the video game world from what we've seen won't be able to stomach the idea of (case in point) thievery which to them will be griefing but for the core audience it is an adrenaline rush.
To their credit, I think SV is trying to make the game more fun and engaging for its core audience and possibly some of the mainstream. But they will never be able to satisfy everyone. There will always be people who will say "game is bad, game is ded" no matter what SV does.
I think there is a middle ground for MO2 and from the many hours of podcasting Henrik has done, I think he has a good understanding and strong vision of what he wants to achieve, but I think he is still quite a ways off from achieving it.
There are still many elements of the games core design that are very much in the trial and error state of design, some aspects I think have proven to not be working as intended and of course the big issue which is bringing the understanding of what the game is actually about, how you actually play it to new arrivals.
I think the biggest challenge is the latter, the game still really lacks a good induction of new players. It’s a complex system that works conceptually in a very unique way, mainly being based on player interactions that I think many new players fail to fully grasp as they are so accustomed to MMOs handing you content to run through and games being based on a continual forward (positive) progress. MO2 has a lot of set backs that take place and this requires a fundamental understanding that this is a normal part of the game.
This concept is core to the game.
In short.
You will die a lot and you avoid death through the same cause and effect, meaning player interaction. You need to find other players and form pairs, groups and guilds to gain back the disadvantage that you normally find yourself in when your out in the world alone.
Some mechanics like thievery, at least as it was in MO1 had no such equalizers, or counters. Most theft in the game took place as a result of working around the intended mechanic, by abusing the exploits of the buggy system. Log on or off delay bug for example was the most common, the banking bug and stuff like that.
In a lot of ways thievery just doesn’t fit into the more standard loops of the game, it, at least as it was in MO1 was mainly a griefing mechanic that relied on bugs for success.
Having failed systems like that in the game gives credence to arguments against the core concept, which leads to resentment and player retention issues. Which leads players to believe that the entire game is flawed and they never discover what the real game is all about once you get deeper into it and accepting of this core premise of player interaction.
Right now I think not having thievery has had mostly a positive effect on the game, nothing has been lost and there are far more important, core mechanics that still need some work. In particular in the area of PVP and the whole premise of standing, crime and punishment all which motivate the core game loops. Right now these systems are still not right and create a lot of core breaks in what should be pretty standard aspects of a good open loot PvP system.
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Mortal just wouldn't be mortal without thievery, and I disagree thievery alone will bring subs a plenty
And here's a pro tip: Don't want your belongings stolen, store them properly...
That is a gross misreading of how the overwhelming majority saw thievery in MO1. It was a despised mechanic, hated above all others. I played a lot of MO1 and the constant, non-stop complaining about it was a pandemic and 99% of it came from new players as these were the only targets of the mechanic.Mortal just wouldn't be mortal without thievery, and I disagree thievery alone will bring subs a plenty
And here's a pro tip: Don't want your belongings stolen, store them properly...
It was basically an ass hole simulation exclusively used to grief new players. As you point out, experienced players knew how to avoid being targeted.
It won't because they didn't listen to me. Like everyone else didn't listen to me. Haha. I can't even be mad anymore.
MO2 is like a master class in how to play yourself. The fact they can't just 'start over' in one way or another is just... I dunno. I know 'they promised,' but you know how they say never say never. You should never box yourself in with BS. Nobody wants to start over, but the game could be good if they started over w/ old content, re-released with beta content + the balance polish and TC.
Rebalance clade gain to be more forgiving, speed up game to bloodbath level, so people are having those MO feelings of someone coming out of your blind spot and murking you while you are on your noncombats. That was a big part of the allure. Create a better pvp system, better dec system that would signal siege so that siege could be FAIR and there would be no ninjaz. It's all RIGHT THERE.
I'm not subbing. I'm not gonna play it, but I do wish for the people who legit wanna play this game that they can fix it. It's so bothersome because they could, but... they won't.
Go find a mirror, look at yourself, take a deep breath and say, three times, "They could fix it, but they won't." Then uninstall lol.
.... Edit: I shouldn't be reading posts here, BUT
It wasn't that. It was an exploit to avoid being thieved. There should be no 'store properly' working as intended. And which is better, losing your stack of 8 gold coins or getting blue blocked at the pigs HAHA. I had pet tickets and everything in bags w/ water. That's not really interesting. Imagine if I had to worry about people stealing my stuff as I moved. People KNEW what I was doing. I would need to hire help basically to even move things from bank to broker/EQ. But I had my 1000 units of water or w/e instead
PEACE
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How can anyone be that egotistical. MO2 died because they didn't listen to ME Teknique. Not you
Game def needs to be sped up.
haha im glad you realize im talking shit now, but yea get out from under it, or just accept it I guess, peace.