Removing spinning cause 1 month streamers cant read attacks

Tzone

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May 16, 2021
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All these people saying adapt to what ever new system that comes out but haven't been able to adapt to spinning. People complaining about spinning are just having trouble against it. They are using other excuses to cover their complaining about it.



Im pro spinning because SV would break the game to a unplayable mess if they try to do a new system.

Add parry nomination please. Peoples swings go through my parries occasionally depending on their ping and some other circumstances. Some people said 150 ping is good. Well I went from 180 to 150 on exit lag and then down to 110 now with fiber and exit lag. I can tell you there is a massive difference in the ping. I no longer have swings going through parries at the lower ping compared to around the 150 ping I had. At 180 it was a regular occurrence that parries did not work against a EU player. They would swing right through.

Im not agreeing with shmerrick but I do know he does have foot fighters and plays them often. He players mounted less then other builds for the past month at least.
 

ElPerro

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All these people saying adapt to what ever new system that comes out but haven't been able to adapt to spinning. People complaining about spinning are just having trouble against it. They are using other excuses to cover their complaining about it.



Im pro spinning because SV would break the game to a unplayable mess if they try to do a new system.

Add parry nomination please. Peoples swings go through my parries occasionally depending on their ping and some other circumstances. Some people said 150 ping is good. Well I went from 180 to 150 on exit lag and then down to 110 now with fiber and exit lag. I can tell you there is a massive difference in the ping. I no longer have swings going through parries at the lower ping compared to around the 150 ping I had. At 180 it was a regular occurrence that parries did not work against a EU player. They would swing right through.

Im not agreeing with shmerrick but I do know he does have foot fighters and plays them often. He players mounted less then other builds for the past month at least.
We need parry normalization. Every once in a while a random hit goes thru your parry, so EUs can feel how the game plays with high ping.
 

MolagAmur

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Its crazy how you guys want spinning (a solution to extremely barebones combat) to stay in this game rather than SV to find a way to make combat feel better overall.

Its cool that it takes skill and all to jump and spin like a ballerina. Its cool you practiced that in duels for hundreds of hours. Doesnt change the fact its absolutely fucking retarded and feels terrible to do. You are in the minority of people who have played this game if you think otherwise.

Having said that, I'm very curious on how they intent to replace it so that fights don't last forever. There are many many ways to achieve that though. If only we had a proper combat alpha....oh wait.

We didn't have to spin in MO1 and that was mainly due to abusing prediction. Id take that any day over what we have now.
 

Dracu

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The only way to remove spinning is by offering a better more consistent way of dealing and negating dmg from beyblades. Just removing it wont work. If SV manages to add a negate to spinning and also add a way to attack reliable without spinning they might be able to fix the combat. And i really really really hope they balance this around 1v2 combat. If they manage to balance it around that, the combat system might be great. Ofcourse they have to go backon the drawingboard for counterfeints and swingspeed in regard to ping normalisation.

Dodge, proper feint, and more tactical outplaying should be the goal imo... But thats personal prefference.

@PatWins you should be a good benchmark for ping vs 2 players with eu ping as a starting point.
 
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Rhias

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You should be complaining about how 2h axes & clubs are undertuned, not becoming a proponent of a broken mechanic & the meta it creates because of that fact.

Yeah, 2h axes & maces could use some extra utility, and a buff that lessens handle-hits... But that's no reason to support the mandatory high-dpi camera-jank as a meta.

I think you got me wrong. In Combat Aplha their "fix" for spinning was to slow/limit the rotation while releasing the swing. So even without spinning it was hard to do last-second adjustments to your swing direction. This was not a that big issue for fast weapons (at least not if you aimed properly before releasing the left mouse button). But it was much worse with heavy weapons because you had to predict where the play would be after the super slow release animation triggered and the amount of handle hits increased greatly.

I'm all for removing this spinning combat style, but please not at the cost of breaking "valid" playstyles.
 

Emdash

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Sep 22, 2021
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I dunno why you dudes are so fuckin' opposed to making parries 'reduce' damage instead of negate them. That would change everything. Spinning is luls, but you'd be embarrassing yourself spinning and getting body bagged in a proper game.

Let me say again (fuckin' hate this forum! It always makes me wanna post shite,) THE FACT THAT MORTAL ONLINE 2 IS AN OPEN WORLD HARDCORE? PVP FULL LOOT SANDBOX and the actual 'good player combat,' (ForSure says duels, but it's a lot of stuff) takes place mostly faced up and stam is def an issue, but not as much of an issue as it should be. Not that damage isn't super low, too. Unless you are a fucking ThurKall or something.

The fact that anyone would want that is beyond me. MO2 has some insane things you can do in combat. Maybe you can do them in other games, but there is a pretty high skill cap there regardless. If you can hit people with the tip of your swing and get out, you can do so much, assuming the combat is NOT TRASH. You can swing all kinds of places, sure, but it's really interesting when you think about it as movement and in 3D (it's almost not 3D when people fight 1v1.)

FUCK MORTAL ONLINE FORUMS AND MODS.
 
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Gladiator

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As contrary to this post, which seems highly inflammatory just like everything else this guy posts, if you think about it objectively you can come to a few conclusions, such as :
1. Spinning and morphing animations in order to look goofy so the other person cannot parry is unrealistic.
2. Spinning and morphing animations is hard to accomplish for the majority of the playerbase, old and new player alike.

BUT.

You cannot remove spinning and morphing animations without adding a proper counter to parries. Right now, if you simply spam attacks with simple feints a fight would never end. If Starvault can come up with some sort of parry / block break like a push or bash or kick or whatever else, removing the ability to basically look goofy in order to win a fight would do wonders for the game. Of course, not for the top 5% of players who got so used to this combat that they would hate it being changed, but a company should not and will not care for the 5%, but for the majority.
 
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Turbizzler

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Shadow of a man plays this game.Also known as doomrider.
Never heard of him in Chiv/Mord, Only knew of him in MO2 as I meme'd around with him outside of Fab fighting Odinseed lol Though I didn't follow the NA scene too closely. Looking at his page, he was involved in the Modhau NA community leagues as a caster/streamer.
 

Teknique

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Jun 15, 2020
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Increasing the damage of handle hits would be good start. Equipment hits are probably the worst thing in the game. Sword to Sword equipment hits are 🤡🤡🤡
Handle hits doing 50% dmg were in alpha but they were remove by “pro dueler” because he sometimes took damage on accels.
 
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Teknique

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Its crazy how you guys want spinning (a solution to extremely barebones combat) to stay in this game rather than SV to find a way to make combat feel better overall.

Its cool that it takes skill and all to jump and spin like a ballerina. Its cool you practiced that in duels for hundreds of hours. Doesnt change the fact its absolutely fucking retarded and feels terrible to do. You are in the minority of people who have played this game if you think otherwise.

Having said that, I'm very curious on how they intent to replace it so that fights don't last forever. There are many many ways to achieve that though. If only we had a proper combat alpha....oh wait.

We didn't have to spin in MO1 and that was mainly due to abusing prediction. Id take that any day over what we have now.
Is it that weird that we want mortal online 2 to feel somewhat similar to mortal online? The turn cap and speed that we do have now has already killed this game for me. Personally I’m glad for these changes because the game died for me ages ago. The dark age of the waffle befell this community. I’m just glad that the tyranny is in full swing. But I digress.

The original game was closer to quake than anything else. Freedom of movement was the key. How can someone argue subjective preferences. The only thing I can really say is shitting on your origins isn’t ideal. You end up with new players who aren’t loyal and backstabbing the ones that were.

It really just goes back to alpha where defensive players cried and cried for more buffs constantly. Then just dumbed the combat down to feint spamming since that was the only thing they were good at. The result was this incredibly shallow combat system we have now where if you feint and look at the floor you’re doing ok.

What got us here though was the type of thinking where you remove and remove stuff. “I took damage from this and it feels really bad”. We really need to be adding mechanics not removing them.

if someone spins and you quick jab them boom there’s a fix. Not fuckn camera locking the game like a moron.
 
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Tzone

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Its crazy how you guys want spinning (a solution to extremely barebones combat) to stay in this game rather than SV to find a way to make combat feel better overall.

Its cool that it takes skill and all to jump and spin like a ballerina. Its cool you practiced that in duels for hundreds of hours. Doesnt change the fact its absolutely fucking retarded and feels terrible to do. You are in the minority of people who have played this game if you think otherwise.

Having said that, I'm very curious on how they intent to replace it so that fights don't last forever. There are many many ways to achieve that though. If only we had a proper combat alpha....oh wait.

We didn't have to spin in MO1 and that was mainly due to abusing prediction. Id take that any day over what we have now.
SV aint finding a solution. Most of the time they fuck the game up worse trying to balance or fix it. Litterally buff heugars next patch.
 
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Tzone

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Handle hits doing 50% dmg were in alpha but they were remove by “pro dueler” because he sometimes took damage on accels.
People always complain about handle hits. Idk why they just dont revert it to 50% lol.
Also equipment hits are arandom af and not a skill issue, people complaint about equip hits religiously.

Two simple things the devs could do ti make pvp more fun.
 
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Stouty

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View attachment 4913

More catering to streamers, game is doomed lmao.

Lets keep listening to 1 month old players about CORE combat mechanic balance changes because you know, they have a GOOD DEEP understanding of the mechanics lmao and know what they are talking about.

You don't need to be the top player of a game to make quality suggestions to improve said game - however if you insist, I was rank 1 in Mordhau for ~2 years straight, the biggest first person melee game to date (i.e. the most contested and competitive) therefore you should instantly concede to every suggestion I make concerning game design within the first person melee genre.

You go on to say that combat being jank is subjective when in reality we know what melee combat should look like, so it's an objective issue. When confronted with this fact you decided to scream about realism not being fun - when clearly spinning (often with macros it would seem) is already proven to be player-count poison, to both this game, Mount & Blade's pvp (also dead) and Chivalry 1. As the combat becomes more grounded, the genre grows, as seen with Mordhau at one point being a top 10 Steam game.

As for the solution, like I said in the video, Chivalry 1 figured out the key ingredient a decade ago: parry lockouts, making simple feints effective. All the values would of course require re-working but this one change would shift spinning from a necessity to a sweaty trick. Turn caps or glancing blows could also be incorporated to eliminate spins entirely if needed.
 
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Stouty

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In terms of mechanical design, they're very very similar. SV even takes credit for Chivalry's combat system, as apparently Chivalry devs worked for or interned at SV before making Chivalry and took SV's ideas to build Chivalry's combat.

Damn, that's some deep lore I was unaware of. Appreciate the support as well
 

Teknique

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You don't need to be the top player of a game to make quality suggestions to improve said game - however if you insist, I was rank 1 in Mordhau for ~2 years straight, the biggest first person melee game to date (i.e. the most contested and competitive) therefore you should instantly concede to every suggestion I make concerning game design within the first person melee genre.

You go on to say that combat being jank is subjective when in reality we know what melee combat should look like, so it's an objective issue. When confronted with this fact you decided to scream about realism not being fun - when clearly spinning (often with macros it would seem) is already proven to be player-count poison, to both this game, Mount & Blade's pvp (also dead) and Chivalry 1. As the combat becomes more grounded, the genre grows, as seen with Mordhau at one point being a top 10 Steam game.

As for the solution, like I said in the video, Chivalry 1 figured out the key ingredient a decade ago: parry lockouts, making simple feints effective. All the values would of course require re-working but this one change would shift spinning from a necessity to a sweaty trick. Turn caps or glancing blows could also be incorporated to eliminate spins entirely if needed.
How does that address his point at all. He said you were playing for a month and you replied with you don't have to be the best but I am?
 

Teknique

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Feel free to re-read it, can't make it any clearer I'm afraid
Yep reread it. You said if you insist. Indicating that you believe the argument he was making was that you had to be the best. But from what you quoted he argued you haven’t been playing enough to know what you’re talking about regardless of your competence and then you made some random nonsequitor.
 

grendel

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It was tainted by the lord of darkness on day 1
You have made many references to the Dark Lord influencing the development. Please, tell us, who is the player you believe to be our Lord incarnate?
 

Stouty

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Yep reread it. You said if you insist. Indicating that you believe the argument he was making was that you had to be the best. But from what you quoted he argued you haven’t been playing enough to know what you’re talking about regardless of your competence and then you made some random nonsequitor.
Nope, his argument was that you had to be skilled to have any good suggestions. As it turns out, I'm one of the best in the entire genre. The whole skill part of the argument is really boring and irrelevant however (funnily enough, people say the exact opposite in Mordhau e.g. he may be rank 1 but he doesn't know what he's talking about in terms of design). Interesting how you've neglected to respond to the meat of my post.
 

Emdash

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Sep 22, 2021
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I don't even care how much it feels like you are owning someone in the first person, if this is combat, the game is trash:


Edit: this also shows a flaw in parry: in a 'real sword fight' you would be pushed back. Like in Soul Blade or w/e you had forward parries that were actually hard to execute. To get a parry going IN is a huge advantage. There is some level of skill doing that in MO, but the fact that parry is just a hit box issue really exacerbates the no movement thing, IMO.
 
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