Please keep movement speed the same

Darthus

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Dec 1, 2020
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I don't think it's possible for them to have skillfull combat unless they decide to completely overhaul the entire game. The game seems to be built with twitch-skills in mind, considering there are barely any abilities like in other MMO's. Isn't that really the point of why we are playing in the first place? That it doesn't have the abilities and tab-target combat like all the others?

It's fine by me if players find it hard when things are going fast, you plop them down in a basketball court around professional players and I'm certain they would have a hard time keeping up there aswell. It's not my problem that they want it easy and have everyone else dragged down to their level. If they don't want to lose against better opponents, then stay away from them and only play against players you are comfortable with.

Movement will be slow on foot regardless what they add, so why would it matter if magic was added or not, or mounts? Chasing, or being chased is the same regardless if you carry a sword, bow, or your fists.
Sorry, having a hard time tracking what you're lobbying for. You want movement speed to be faster and think people are against it because it favors twitch players?

Neither of those are my position (being against fast movement or twitch skills being an advantage). I'm simply saying that you can't focus on "is combat movement speed fast enough" as a global topic. It should be "Does combat/movement in full plate with a two handed sword feel satifying/fun?" then "How about combat in leather with a short sword, does that feel appreciably faster, am I able to outmaneuver/catch up to someone in heaver armor?"

All that has to be focused on/tweaked first prior to broad changes to movement speed, otherwise you are raising some boats (say making movement in heavy armor feel faster if it feels too low) while raising other ones too far (now leather armor is way too fast, or it's the same, which isn't how it should be).

As far "kiting" and chasing someone down, yes, someone in ligher armor should be able to sprint and catch up to a fleeing heavy armor player easily. In equal armor, there need to be mechanisms to catch up to fleeing opponents (already exist to some extent in that you move slower when hurt) including things like slowing magic, hitting a fleeing person with a bow if you can. But I'd say those are second tier changes after tuning the general feeling of movement in combat so that when you're engaging with someone it feels like you can move in and out of combat range, get swings in in a way that feels satisfying and appropriate to your gear choices.
 
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Meridian

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Jun 11, 2020
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Sorry, having a hard time tracking what you're lobbying for. You want movement speed to be faster and think people are against it because it favors twitch players?

Neither of those are my position (being against fast movement or twitch skills being an advantage). I'm simply saying that you can't focus on "is combat movement speed fast enough" as a global topic. It should be "Does combat/movement in full plate with a two handed sword feel satifying/fun?" then "How about combat in leather with a short sword, does that feel appreciably faster, am I able to outmaneuver/catch up to someone in heaver armor?"

All that has to be focused on/tweaked first prior to broad changes to movement speed, otherwise you are raising some boats (say making movement in heavy armor feel faster if it feels too low) while raising other ones too far (now leather armor is way too fast, or it's the same, which isn't how it should be).

As far "kiting" and chasing someone down, yes, someone in ligher armor should be able to sprint and catch up to a fleeing heavy armor player easily. In equal armor, there need to be mechanisms to catch up to fleeing opponents (already exist to some extent in that you move slower when hurt) including things like slowing magic, hitting a fleeing person with a bow if you can. But I'd say those are second tier changes after tuning the general feeling of movement in combat so that when you're engaging with someone it feels like you can move in and out of combat range, get swings in in a way that feels satisfying and appropriate to your gear choices.
Agree with everything here. Hoping there's more diverse armor combinations besides weight and damage mitigation. I like what they're doing with species, hopefully this diversity translates to other systems and offers more than meta builds.
 

Handsome Young Man

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Jun 13, 2020
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Fuck that if they make this a twitch shooter with swords with 200+ ping i'm out. MO1 movement was crap.
Honestly sounds like you got your head pounded in.

But on a realer note, you bring up ping; then why not argue the idea of regional servers?

Or perhaps argue making synchronization better?

Instead you focus on the movement speed.

Talked to Henrik yesterday, he already stated multiple times a lot of the issues people are experiencing in terms of people 'sliding' and 'warping' are due to technical issues they are still working on. I have my doubts, but that was from his own mouth.

+1 movement speed increase.
 

Kaemik

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Nov 28, 2020
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To a certain degree I would say current characters have way higher stats than they have in-game and movespeed will get slowed down a bit when the game releases and people actually have to invest in Dex.

But I'd counter my own point by saying there will be some higher dex builds than are currently in-game, Alvarin clade buffs aren't even working, and low movespeed builds were generally considered trash for non-mounted builds. There is a reason Thursar/Khurite was the standard footfighter build instead of Thursar/Khallard.

So realistically viable foot builds won't be slowing down too much from what we see right now. What I'm more concerned about than standardized alpha speeds though is how non-viable slower builds will be considered once we have racial bonuses and stat caps. Like are Ohgmir foot fighters going to be considered trash because of low dex or are they actually going to curve things to give some semblance of racial balance.

I definitely don't want to see movespeed get so fast that meta for melee becomes something like "Figuring 8ing" in Darkfall where melee between trained combatants resembled jousting more than a swordfight.
 
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Grasthard

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Nov 21, 2020
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Okinawa
I want to wait for mount to make up my mind, but as the game stands world travelling at the current speed is just straight up painful and boring. Is one of the main factor that makes me log very little, even though there would be things I'd like to see/test.

ps: player movement speed is not necessarily directly connected to combat. you can increase movement speed for general travel, and keep turning speed low for instance, and would not affect combat so much
 
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Bernfred

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Sep 12, 2020
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If the devs want a faster game, they should just have regional servers so they don't have to bother with jury-rigging some bs to make it all work for everyone.
people should understand that you can only make it light speed fast, which most people dont even want, when you add regional servers to at least 3 continents.
 

FurSail

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Oct 15, 2020
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Please don't ruin your game and speed things up anymore.

If you make movespeed any faster you might as well add third-person and ruin any immersion this game offers.


First of all the combat is a different thing,
Second of all movement speed used to be fine before until they lowered the max speed down to almost 400, I think the movement speed is a bit too slow and could be improved. However, saying that changing movement speed will kill the immersion is completely false and you need to rethink what you just said. Improving movement speed to make kiting and wandering around the map feel like you're not taking 20 weeks to just get to GK, makes things a little bit easier. I am not talking about crazy movement speed, I am talking about changing it slightly to at least give the player the feeling he's not a snail or an old turtle. Everyone has different opinions of course and since I might not an expert MMORPG player, I think everyone can understand that the movement speed needs some work. I think you're just spewing crap out of your brain to make people think movement speed is fine even though it's not. The game is only in beta at the moment and they're thinking about many different rather than movement speed. But I am pretty movement speed is in their list of things to polish. Nobody knows how movement speed is gonna be when the game launches in persistent. Could be slow, could be fast, who knows. We haven't even seen the finished clades and how you can choose your character age and size.

At the end of the day, there are two types of people. People who enjoy the slow-paced combat and the people who enjoy a more fast, skillful combat.
MO1 didn't get ruined because of the speed of the combat btw just to make that clear. That's another topic for the MO1 forum.
 

Kaemik

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Nov 28, 2020
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...a more fast, skillful combat...
You mean people who recognize there are ways to make combat more skillfull without speeding it up, and people who have a short-sighted one-dimensional belief of speed = skill.

As I've stated before. I did better in Darkfall's melee system. A MUCH faster system. Block wasn't practical in most fights so it was about getting up on your target and swinging wildly. Things like having to manage every ability in the game from the same character and swap between archery, melee, and magic constantly mid-fight did raise the skill ceiling but the faster melee didn't. It just felt non-immersive to have to learn techniques like "figure 8ing" where you run in figure 8s to turn melee into this gamey feeling jousting contest. Wasn't even needed in a lot of fights though. Got plenty of melee kills just spamming attacks at people's backs.

MO2 melee actually takes more skill than Darkfall Online did, and it does it while feeling more realistic.
 
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FurSail

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Oct 15, 2020
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You mean people who recognize there are ways to make combat more skillfull without speeding it up, and people who have a short-sighted one-dimensional belief of speed = skill.

As I've stated before. I did better in Darkfall's melee system. A MUCH faster system. Block wasn't practical in most fights so it was about getting up on your target and swinging wildly. Things like having to manage every ability in the game from the same character and swap between archery, melee, and magic constantly mid-fight did raise the skill ceiling but the faster melee didn't. It just felt non-immersive to have to learn techniques like "figure 8ing" where you run in figure 8s to turn melee into this gamey feeling jousting contest.

MO2 melee actually takes more skill than Darkfall Online did, and it does it while feeling more realistic.
I've never played dark fall before, so I can't really say anything about it. But there's nothing skillful with slow-paced combat as you can literally parry everything without needing to pay attention. If you have to spin in order to get a hit on the enemy in a duel then it's not fun or realistic at that point. Have you seen spinning knights back then when they dueled? Oh, and about group fights. 1. You're slow and can't dive into a group (aka flank them and hit their injured fighters/mages in order to collapse/split the group) 2. There's so many parry whores in group fights that most of the time heavy damage weapons are pointless to make and you should rather use flake weapons instead to group fight with wich do less damage since people wear full steel most of the time.
 

Kaemik

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Nov 28, 2020
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But there's nothing skillful with slow-paced combat as you can literally parry everything without needing to pay attention.
Seems like 95%+ of the game isn't paying attention then. Including many of the people cutting and pasting this line into every topic.

Personally, I get wrecked. And while that may have something to do with my 160+ ping, it probably has more to do with the fact I SHOULD get wrecked playing any highly reflex-based build. I'm not good at that kind of crap. The only reason I focused on melee in Darkfall is without nuke spells it was the easiest role to play.

You want to speed it up and remove "parry whoring". Fine. It will appeal to a casual trash-tier melee like me. At least until magic and domination make it in and I go with them instead. But don't claim you're making the game more skillful.
 
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Steinerr

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May 29, 2020
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Time to kill is low currently but that is another issue we must get to in the near future.

For now speed needs to be looked at and improved.

We are here to test and try to find a good balance for this game and have it impact the most people.

If many are saying the combat is slow or not skilled i believe them and we should at LEAST try to meet halfway.

If you cannot digest the fact that faster combat ALONE and along with other changes will increase the skill ceiling then understand that faster combat will simply/possibly be more FUN.

Dont know about you but im not here for the realism or roleplay. Im here to have fun its a video game!

Open your mind and lets get to testing. @Kaemik
 

Kaemik

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Nov 28, 2020
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If many are saying the combat is slow or not skilled i believe them and we should at LEAST try to meet halfway.
I'll be hosting a tourney within the next two weeks once I've built up enough cronite for a worthy prize. Anyone who places top 10% will be qualified to talk about what is and isn't skillful IMO. Currently, I understand a lot of people saying combat isn't skillful are getting wrecked in-game which invalidated the value of that input as far as I'm concerned. If combat has a low skillcap the top players should all be dead even in terms of performance. If you're getting wrecked by literally anyone you haven't reached skillcap.
 
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Steinerr

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I'll be hosting a tourney within the next two weeks once I've built up enough cronite for a worthy prize. Anyone who places top 10% will be qualified to talk about what is and isn't skillful IMO. Currently, I understand a lot of people saying combat isn't skillful are getting wrecked in-game which invalidated the value of that input IMO.
Sure.

But incase you never go through with it look at MO 1's past and find YOUR answer there on who should be "qualified" to talk on what is skillful or not.

You certainly dont fit that category. (By your logic)
 
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Kaemik

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Nov 28, 2020
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If people who were winning in MO1 are now losing in MO2 and whining about how "unskillful" that gameplay is, then their opinion doesn't matter. If combat takes no skill you should be able to win. Or at least there should be no decisive winner in any fight.

Like if you play Tic-Tac-Toe with me on 3x3 grid you will literally never win because the game has a laughably low skillcap so it's easy for both players to reach a point they'll be in a dead heat every single time.

If you're losing, the system isn't less skillful. The skills changed, and you failed to adapt. That's a universally true statement you don't get to hide behind MO1 vet status to deny because it's true about every game ever. If you're losing fair fights, it's because other people are better than you. Period. Not because combat is "less skilled".
 
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Teknique

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If people who were winning in MO1 are now losing in MO2 and whining about how "unskillful" that gameplay is, then their opinion doesn't matter. If combat takes no skill you should be able to win. Or at least there should be no decisive winner in any fight.
I know the old good duelers and the new good duelers

like your boy Jourdain.

There's more than enough on both sides in this thread.

1v1/dueling really is not part of the discussion on this for me though. Group fights feel silly due to really chunky weapons and the movement acceleration and that i'm not fond of atm.

Actually Bernfred and Zyloth are about all we got for you in this thread, bern does slap though. I think Evelyn is ok but haven't really fought them.
 
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Steinerr

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May 29, 2020
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If people who were winning in MO1 are now losing in MO2 and whining about how "unskillful" that gameplay is, then their opinion doesn't matter. If combat takes no skill you should be able to win. Or at least there should be no decisive winner in any fight.
Whos losing?.

And even IF they were losing (they are not) its an incredibly ignorant view there are so many factors to think about im not just talking about skill. Opinions matter


Like if you play Tic-Tac-Toe with me on 3x3 grid you will literally never win because the game has a laughably low skillcap so it's easy for both players to reach a point they'll be in a dead heat every single time.
Tic Tac Toe Huh?

If you're losing, the system isn't less skillful. The skills changed, and you failed to adapt. That's a universally true statement you don't get to hide behind MO1 vet status to deny because it's true about every game ever. If you're losing fair fights, it's because other people are better than you. Period. Not because combat is "less skilled".
Again who is losing?
 
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Handsome Young Man

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Dueling in MO1 and dueling in MO2 mean fuck all.

I know people are bringing up duels, but duels literally only determined who's ping was more effective or who's packet loss was more effective.

Not to mention in MO1 duels actually played out much more differently then they did in MO2 and there was a more discernable skill gap. In MO2 that isn't as apparent.

If you want a true test of skill. You need groups of 3 fighting each other, good players will show in groups not duels.

After all, almost all content that is important or skill based will involve a group - and its a lot easier to be individually good than it is to be good in a group setting when you might be working anywhere from 5 to 30 additional people in the same comms.

That in my opinion is where skill actually shines and resides, because now you have to rely on others and they on you.

This would be different if we had regional servers and combat that was fundamentally skill based and finished, then we could argue duels test skill 100%

But as it stands in my eyes, MO1 had the more skill based duels where as MO2 crutches players heavily in almost all aspecta.
 
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Kaemik

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If you want a true test of skill. You need groups of 3 fighting each other, good players will show in groups not duels.
I'll host some 3v3s or 5v5s once footfighter isn't the only role in-game. Group play is hard to judge atm with no interaction between roles.