MO2 Is stacked in favour of RPK
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i'd agree if we replace ganking with PVP and give everyone a fair chance to flee or at least react to PVP.
I often heard that only 2 games with open pvp until managed it to maintain a healthy pop, EvE and Albion.
I've never played the latter, but i have played EvE a little and what people tell me is that these games give players who focus on other playstyle than purely PvP can play their way in an open PVP environment without to get ganked or even griefed continuosly.
I'm personally also prefer to immerse into worlds with open PvP because it is the salt in the soup and makes it way more thrilling and entertaining for me, but i nobody likes to be ganked or griefed continually and players like me who in general like the open PvP can handle losses in PvP we can handle PvP in general and also fight our way through a more harsh environment and all that, but we will lose interest and having fun playing the game, when PVP means to be ganked or griefed only and have no way to counter and react and make some living and have some experience of success that is not only dependent of luck or playing at odd times when nobody is online or playing a "dead" game with a big enough world to circumvent every envounter etc.
That is what i meant when i said SV needs to be carefull about that balance and make a ganker playstyle extremely hard and unattractive, actually it's too easy to play gankstyle. I've played as a red myself in several games and it's allways too easy to gank and circumvent the restrictions, to maintain your character etc. it's allways to easy to be a murderer and deal with the consequences by for example having multiple accounts or enough friends etc.
Therefore Developers who want to have such wonderfull worlds and game concepts like MO need allways to think about a healthy distribution of playstyles.
"Worlds" wont run long if more than 20% of the pop are on a killingspree and everyones can gank each other easily. Living worlds need a lot of variance and habitats for all that variant playstyles.
And i dont say we need PvP free zones, no! i hate that, but you need some smart gamemechanics and a world to allow players to create habitats they can play their way whatever that way is.
Face of Mankind comes to my mind, but well this wasnt succesfull either.
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I've practiced Aikido for many years and this is only half of the truth.
You maybe want to "invite" your opponent to strike to then counter it, but the real purpose of Aikido is making the opponent not to strike at all.
"True victory does not come from defeating an enemy, true victory comes from giving love and changing an enemies heart."
"The Way of the Warrior has been misunderstood. It is not a means to kill and destroy others. Those who seek to compete and better one another are making a terrible mistake. To smash, injure, or destroy is the worst thing a human being can do. The real Way of a Warrior is to prevent such slaughter – it is the Art of Peace, the power of love."
"Aikido is not an art to fight with enemies and defeat them. It is a way to lead all human beings to live in harmony with each other as though everyone were one family. The secret of aikido is to make yourself become one with the universe and to go along with its natural movements. One who has attained this secret holds the universe in him/herself and can say, 'I am the universe."
Morihei Ueshiba
All this should not and cannot be transfered into a videogame's logic or philosophy or PvP as a GAME-mechanic meant to be PLAYED FOR FUN!
Its fascinating to watch how people react when there are no rules in place. See, despite there being no rules I at least try to adhere to my principles. When people don't do that I think they are weak and probably never had any principles in the first place. The only reason they behave in normal society is because they are told to. They don't have any self control or discipline. I usually put that down to youth but a lot of these griefers are in their 30s.
Just a side comment, nothing to do with the thread ^.^
Shame both of those games you can pay RL money for in-game currency from the company.
Can't stop RMT bots but I'm glad MO isn't P2W like that.
ahaha, that's the way it was before swing speed changes!
It's not about RPK tho it's about awareness. I see loot bags everywhere, or at least low risk loot bag attempts. I have to be in a pretty trollish mood to even mess w/ someone and usually won't kill even if I could. HOWEVER, being aware of someone when they are unaware of you is a SKILL. It's unfortunate that MO puts people in a lot of poor positions to get ganked, but it's nowhere near as bad as MO1. There are some just raw-risk rolls, but in general, barring circumstances like seeing a dude and being like oh I know them, then they turn around and attack you, you should know where your enemy is. A lot of the game is about posturing, for real. Keep your weapon out, spec a mounted skill (likely MA) if you riding around a lot. The "pop in" of this game is pretty foul, and MO1 wasn't like that, but you can reach a level of zen where you are aware but not feeling PTSD when you go around.
The thing is that there are a bunch of people just going around trying to do their thing, whether they are capable of defense or not, even the way they move is inviting of an attack. I think people deserve the chance to do their own thing, and if they aren't contesting something I want, it's like heh. If I see someone pop in while I'm riding around, I ride toward them, not too close but close enough to SEE WHO IT IS, Far back enough to where if I have to start attacking I can, you don't have to pull your bow or whatever as long as you know how it's gonna draw and can aim the first shot well off the pull, just having it out is enough to get that off. I take people charging their wep at me as an offense
Or maybe I'm too playful. But I like to fight! Almost never am I in a situation where I'd rather avoid a fight, but the times where someone has come in on me with my wep out 1v1 is almost 0. Not when I was aware of them. One time around Vadda had this great interaction w/ a guy where we both rode our horses into each other and smashed our faces together for awhile and went our separate ways. It really should be fun. I don't agree w/ the way a lot of people play the game, picking on the weak, rarely fighting if they don't outnumber, but that's how it goes. When you get in those situations, esp with pop in, you just gotta hope you can get lucky enough to pick off a horse or something. It's just a random bad occurrence. But if people are consistently bodying 1v1 you while you ride around, you're not aware of your surroundings at all. Again, don't be a nervous wreck, but look around once in awhile. If someone approaches, assume that they might fight, even if you don't wanna fire the first shot/go in on ground, be ready to respond in kind. Most often it's just two people passing who check each other out and move on.
It's still kinda mean
game or not... to "gank" someone and take their stuff. It might be fair play, but you could also NOT do that. I'd say the majority of the population does not want to fight even if they have fighting specced. People behave differently in... duels... or outnumbered situations, but most people are not gonna put up their shit in a 1v1 fight vs someone who seems slightly capable of fighting them. And TO ME that's a damn shame. Cuz that would be fun as hell. That's one of the things MO2 is missing that MO1 had. I had many encounters 1v1 in MO1. Of course, sometimes I was noncombat, but still. I believe those guys would fight me even if I was combat. Was just different mindset of dudes. Some of them had gear that made them losing nearly impossible, but I'm talking about even before that. MO1 had some really notorious roaming PKer solos.also as I said in another thread, joke is on anyone who thinks Eve or albion are even in the same galaxy as MO in terms of games. MO is just janky as hell. It's really the game being 'bad' that drives most people away haha. It's only the ones of us who see that it has unique things that stay and get griefed by the jank.
Well a lot of people are RMTing the spiritist books. I cant blame them when the speed hackers are keeping the boss on cool down most of the time and then requiring large numbers to gather up and run to the boss locations for just one attempt and chance just to see the boss is speed hacked.
Lots of RMT in this game. Look at some of these guilds that never been to sator and keep wiping to mino king having full spiritist as a example
What this game needs is reasons to PvP other than just for the sake of it. Add the nation wars maybe even with objectives on the map that can be controlled/captured and give a bonus to the controlling nation, add rewards for participating and fighting for those objectives, make specific lawless areas that have resources that are valuable. If the only way to get PvP is to kill newbies in the fab graveyard until Odinseed comes out with a zerg then that is the only PvP that will happen. Add proper wars between guilds and disable them inside towns.
When there is reasons for legit PvP where both sides are prepared and willing then there will be less instances of random ganking and the punishment for that PvP can be harsher.
I don't think many people think that the punishment for ganking/griefing someone transporting/mining is too harsh. Its the fact that this same system applies if you get into a larger fight around a dungeon etc. and it punishes you even harder there.
It can be even harder to gain rep if there are enough ways to PvP without losing rep. Discouraging the ganking and encouraging healthier PvP.
When there is reasons for legit PvP where both sides are prepared and willing then there will be less instances of random ganking and the punishment for that PvP can be harsher.
I don't think many people think that the punishment for ganking/griefing someone transporting/mining is too harsh. Its the fact that this same system applies if you get into a larger fight around a dungeon etc. and it punishes you even harder there.
It can be even harder to gain rep if there are enough ways to PvP without losing rep. Discouraging the ganking and encouraging healthier PvP.
I agree with pretty much everything you're saying here.ahaha, that's the way it was before swing speed changes!
It's not about RPK tho it's about awareness. I see loot bags everywhere, or at least low risk loot bag attempts. I have to be in a pretty trollish mood to even mess w/ someone and usually won't kill even if I could. HOWEVER, being aware of someone when they are unaware of you is a SKILL. It's unfortunate that MO puts people in a lot of poor positions to get ganked, but it's nowhere near as bad as MO1. There are some just raw-risk rolls, but in general, barring circumstances like seeing a dude and being like oh I know them, then they turn around and attack you, you should know where your enemy is. A lot of the game is about posturing, for real. Keep your weapon out, spec a mounted skill (likely MA) if you riding around a lot. The "pop in" of this game is pretty foul, and MO1 wasn't like that, but you can reach a level of zen where you are aware but not feeling PTSD when you go around.
The thing is that there are a bunch of people just going around trying to do their thing, whether they are capable of defense or not, even the way they move is inviting of an attack. I think people deserve the chance to do their own thing, and if they aren't contesting something I want, it's like heh. If I see someone pop in while I'm riding around, I ride toward them, not too close but close enough to SEE WHO IT IS, Far back enough to where if I have to start attacking I can, you don't have to pull your bow or whatever as long as you know how it's gonna draw and can aim the first shot well off the pull, just having it out is enough to get that off. I take people charging their wep at me as an offense
One time around Vadda had this great interaction w/ a guy where we both rode our horses into each other and smashed our faces together for awhile and went our separate ways. It really should be fun. I don't agree w/ the way a lot of people play the game, picking on the weak, rarely fighting if they don't outnumber, but that's how it goes. When you get in those situations, esp with pop in, you just gotta hope you can get lucky enough to pick off a horse or something. It's just a random bad occurrence. But if people are consistently bodying 1v1 you while you ride around, you're not aware of your surroundings at all. Again, don't be a nervous wreck, but look around once in awhile. If someone approaches, assume that they might fight, even if you don't wanna fire the first shot/go in on ground, be ready to respond in kind. Most often it's just two people passing who check each other out and move on.
It's still kinda mean
also as I said in another thread, joke is on anyone who thinks Eve or albion are even in the same galaxy as MO in terms of games. MO is just janky as hell. It's really the game being 'bad' that drives most people away haha. It's only the ones of us who see that it has unique things that stay and get griefed by the jank.
I guess the issue for me is that I already have a really long todo list of mundane activities (mining, harvesting, mob farms) and I can do without adding rep runs to it.
I'm happy to fight to defend myself and I'd actually like to fight a whole lot more. The trouble is that finding a fight where you aren't outnumbered is getting really difficult. Another problem for me is that I'm playing a caster which is currently trash defensively. Great if you are starting the fight/getting the drop on your opponent but dead meat otherwise.
I'll grudgingly admit that most of my 1v1 fails are of my own making. It's either inexperience, laziness or lack of awareness mostly. 9 times out of 10 I'm riding around with my head on a swivel but after 2hrs of going from one place to the next without event I tend to lose focus and drop the ball. Again, it's a vicious circle because you don't get experience unless you fight but if you do fight you die so quickly that you don't gain any experience.
I think what we are missing is guild war. TC is coming, I know, but I don't see why guild war wasn't implemented from the beginning. If you're getting griefed by a guild you should be able to declare war and then it's open season for both sides. This system needs top priority because it benefits everyone in a game supposedly focussed on PvP.
I suspect that so many of the gankings in game are down to sheer boredom. I don't find ganking someone just out doing a bit of woodcutting at all satisfying and I'm pretty sure that even some of the "hardcore" players feel the same (although some who claim to be hardcore thrive on killing weaklings
). Btw, my definition of ganking is where players purposely and only target those that don't want to fight because they want an easy win/ego massage. They could get a fight with someone that would fight back but then there's a chance they'd lose. It's a pretty lame mentality.The problem indeed lies in the fact that SV hasnt put forth any real PvP hotspots or content. I myself do not enjoy killing defenseless noobs in the graveyards since that really isnt challenging or good for the game in any shape or form. The game will always attract people who enjoy killing the tindremic guard vendor gear ppl, but for many that is the only way of attracting a larger group to come out and give larger fights.I agree with pretty much everything you're saying here.
I guess the issue for me is that I already have a really long todo list of mundane activities (mining, harvesting, mob farms) and I can do without adding rep runs to it.
I'm happy to fight to defend myself and I'd actually like to fight a whole lot more. The trouble is that finding a fight where you aren't outnumbered is getting really difficult. Another problem for me is that I'm playing a caster which is currently trash defensively. Great if you are starting the fight/getting the drop on your opponent but dead meat otherwise.
I'll grudgingly admit that most of my 1v1 fails are of my own making. It's either inexperience, laziness or lack of awareness mostly. 9 times out of 10 I'm riding around with my head on a swivel but after 2hrs of going from one place to the next without event I tend to lose focus and drop the ball. Again, it's a vicious circle because you don't get experience unless you fight but if you do fight you die so quickly that you don't gain any experience.
I think what we are missing is guild war. TC is coming, I know, but I don't see why guild war wasn't implemented from the beginning. If you're getting griefed by a guild you should be able to declare war and then it's open season for both sides. This system needs top priority because it benefits everyone in a game supposedly focussed on PvP.
I suspect that so many of the gankings in game are down to sheer boredom. I don't find ganking someone just out doing a bit of woodcutting at all satisfying and I'm pretty sure that even some of the "hardcore" players feel the same (although some who claim to be hardcore thrive on killing weaklings
fully agree, the beauty of MO and SV is there is not such thing, not even premium Acc's or whatever bs.
I like SV more than many other studios because of that.
Other Studios mostly make you feel that if you haven't backed their game or put more money than the general player you miss something.
Even if it is only cosmetics, SV doesn't do that and nobody misses anything and everyone paying the same price getting the same game without any extra's.
ahaha, that's the way it was before swing speed changes!
It's not about RPK tho it's about awareness. I see loot bags everywhere, or at least low risk loot bag attempts. I have to be in a pretty trollish mood to even mess w/ someone and usually won't kill even if I could. HOWEVER, being aware of someone when they are unaware of you is a SKILL. It's unfortunate that MO puts people in a lot of poor positions to get ganked, but it's nowhere near as bad as MO1. There are some just raw-risk rolls, but in general, barring circumstances like seeing a dude and being like oh I know them, then they turn around and attack you, you should know where your enemy is. A lot of the game is about posturing, for real. Keep your weapon out, spec a mounted skill (likely MA) if you riding around a lot. The "pop in" of this game is pretty foul, and MO1 wasn't like that, but you can reach a level of zen where you are aware but not feeling PTSD when you go around.
The thing is that there are a bunch of people just going around trying to do their thing, whether they are capable of defense or not, even the way they move is inviting of an attack. I think people deserve the chance to do their own thing, and if they aren't contesting something I want, it's like heh. If I see someone pop in while I'm riding around, I ride toward them, not too close but close enough to SEE WHO IT IS, Far back enough to where if I have to start attacking I can, you don't have to pull your bow or whatever as long as you know how it's gonna draw and can aim the first shot well off the pull, just having it out is enough to get that off. I take people charging their wep at me as an offense
One time around Vadda had this great interaction w/ a guy where we both rode our horses into each other and smashed our faces together for awhile and went our separate ways. It really should be fun. I don't agree w/ the way a lot of people play the game, picking on the weak, rarely fighting if they don't outnumber, but that's how it goes. When you get in those situations, esp with pop in, you just gotta hope you can get lucky enough to pick off a horse or something. It's just a random bad occurrence. But if people are consistently bodying 1v1 you while you ride around, you're not aware of your surroundings at all. Again, don't be a nervous wreck, but look around once in awhile. If someone approaches, assume that they might fight, even if you don't wanna fire the first shot/go in on ground, be ready to respond in kind. Most often it's just two people passing who check each other out and move on.
It's still kinda mean
also as I said in another thread, joke is on anyone who thinks Eve or albion are even in the same galaxy as MO in terms of games. MO is just janky as hell. It's really the game being 'bad' that drives most people away haha. It's only the ones of us who see that it has unique things that stay and get griefed by the jank.
well i have no problems it's like: "the problem is not the problem, the problem is your attitude about the problem" i can deal with running in to a zerg and die, i can deal with running into a character that can easily destroy my build and i can't do anything because my build isn't min maxed, my skill is mediocre at best. If people want to kill me and i was unlucky or dropped attention so be it, but most of the time i can avoid that and sometimes i will fight them off, kill their horse when they killed mine and stand my ground so the attacker give up trying to kill me.
PvP in this game is mostly about numbers and min maxed builds.
My aproach is a bit different as i get more out of the game if i do what i find more "immersive", and thats unfortunately not playing a min maxed build, but i'm ok if from time to time i'm part of the bigger numbers zerg
Yeah. That's it exactly. You're so insightful. So imaginative. Where do you come up with these kind of comments
Just practise and you'll be able to take advantage of all these PK advantages soonYeah. That's it exactly. You're so insightful. So imaginative. Where do you come up with these kind of comments
I suspect that so many of the gankings in game are down to sheer boredom. I don't find ganking someone just out doing a bit of woodcutting at all satisfying and I'm pretty sure that even some of the "hardcore" players feel the same (although some who claim to be hardcore thrive on killing weaklings
i'd agree to some degree, but there is also the mind game and the eco game that says: kill their harvesters to stop getting more supplys, kill everyone to break their morale.
Ganking to some degree is fine, but it should never become griefing but the border is fluent. If a game ask you to spawnkill/ priestcamp to get the tactical advantage that's just bad design that can be made better.
Imho to remove many of the red priests was a good move, but adding priests to every keep was not. Or it should be the way that only owners of the keep and their allies can revive at their keep, but not the foes that were fought off, that you need to priestcamp to not risk to much etc.
There is plenty space to improve the system, but it's not easy to do because it should still be fun and practicable and not impossible to have ongoing wars.
But things like the resupply lines and stuff like that maybe need to reconsidered and adjusted.
Players who gank and griefe purely need to be registered by the game and properly pusnished for their playstyle and make them have a hard living.
This said, I'M NOT AGAINST PURE GANKING PLAYSTYLE, but it need to be the most hardcore way to play, unforgiving, unattractive for most players and only practicable and fun for very few players who really like to play that way, to be a real outcast. They should not easily recover from being a pariah or able to circumvent any given restrictions by the game.
And here comes the problem of multi-accounting. Red players shouldn't even be allowed to trade player to player, because they'll "exploit" every restrictions the game want them to have etc.
It should take many hours/ days/ weeks to become blue again. there can be a black market of course. The playstyle is good to have if it's only a few players in the world and not half of the population or even a majority.
It shouldnt be impossible to play that way, but if you want a healthy pop and a living world you want less than 20% of players playing that way.
If it is too easy, too attractive and rewarding too much players will make a lot more players feel uncomfortable and "ruin their day".
like i said above in another post: if people that arent that much into PvP, but apreciate the open PvP envoronment and the danger and thrill, they still need experience of success, experience to counter a ganker, react, flee, stand their ground or whatever. If their experience is only losing continuously you will lose these players and the game ends up having only wolves that will fight each other for a while until it gets stale and boring, because if you want PVP only, you can play better games.
Everyone in a open ffa full loot pvp mmorpg need to understand that this doenst mean its only about pvp, but a world with a big variety of players that fill this world. If there is only players who want to be murder hobo's and kill for kllings sake, they will lose their living world.
MO needs traders, crafters, roleplayers, blue knights, red murderers, socializers, explorers, warmongers, peacekeepers, hc min maxers and casuals and at best they all can make a living on Nave, exist with successes and losses and fill the world, pay their sub and keep the game alive.
Everything else will end sooner than later and we all dont want the game to starve and end up with 500-1000 concurrent players end of the year.
Even if they all have 2-3 Accounts, what is realistic it wont help the game to become what it could be and more important a successful MMORPG running for 10 years or even more.
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Please keep baseless allegations out of this thread and off this forum. If you have proof of these things send it to a GM and let moderation handle it.
I agree with pretty much everything you're saying here.
I guess the issue for me is that I already have a really long todo list of mundane activities (mining, harvesting, mob farms) and I can do without adding rep runs to it.
I'm happy to fight to defend myself and I'd actually like to fight a whole lot more. The trouble is that finding a fight where you aren't outnumbered is getting really difficult. Another problem for me is that I'm playing a caster which is currently trash defensively. Great if you are starting the fight/getting the drop on your opponent but dead meat otherwise.
I'll grudgingly admit that most of my 1v1 fails are of my own making. It's either inexperience, laziness or lack of awareness mostly. 9 times out of 10 I'm riding around with my head on a swivel but after 2hrs of going from one place to the next without event I tend to lose focus and drop the ball. Again, it's a vicious circle because you don't get experience unless you fight but if you do fight you die so quickly that you don't gain any experience.
I think what we are missing is guild war. TC is coming, I know, but I don't see why guild war wasn't implemented from the beginning. If you're getting griefed by a guild you should be able to declare war and then it's open season for both sides. This system needs top priority because it benefits everyone in a game supposedly focussed on PvP.
I suspect that so many of the gankings in game are down to sheer boredom. I don't find ganking someone just out doing a bit of woodcutting at all satisfying and I'm pretty sure that even some of the "hardcore" players feel the same (although some who claim to be hardcore thrive on killing weaklings
use heavy horse armor. It seems like it's trash (but actually, side by side test on my lean veela I was leaving my friend in the dust, just due to speed fluctuations ((if you watch speed it moves around, I dunno if it 's hills or what.)) It slows you down, but it makes it so you're not BBQ as soon as someone gets on your mount. Basically stuff like incis/gf or whatever is gonna change your life. There was a time when horse speeds were more (when deserts were going like 1000+ in 3rd, basically 4th speed now speeds in 3rd) where light armor was more viable. Now I dunno w/ pop in and all. Plus, you're gonna die EVENTUALLY, it's about what you did before you died. How much money did you make, yknow, etc, completely remove yourself emotionally from dying, as long as your gameplay is progressing, the game is working as intended. The ganks that get you are getting other people and, thus, making your success worth more
Ganking to all degrees is fine. There are ways to minimize your loss as a ganker and fight soft targets that DOES make ganking profitable, and big guilds don't seem to fight each other in a lot of the map haha. Like my post about people camping jungle right after horse spawn before node line. Pretty wack place to get caught, but it happens. Nobody really has the time to go down there and wipe those dudes every hour or so (I'm down LMK haha.) I can maybe harass them solo but I can't wipe them + whoever else they call in.
There are also ways to minimize your loss as a player, same idea. If there is ever a gank choke point like I spoke of, you have to think of it almost like a mini boss or something and clear it before you bring your transports thru. That's real deal hardcore.
You're not gonna stop people from pvping in MO; Vaith is trolling, but that mindset or the attempt at pushing that mindset (y not just PK) is definitely prevalent. And to be fair if you are going around solo you should be able to kill everyone you want, if you want. That's fair play, but it's not really how I wanna do things.
It's just hard to punish gankers without having ripple effects. Right now, pvp is actually heavily punished, believe it or not. It might not be punished the right way, but unless you're friends w/ a red priest, it's like ehh. I really feel like if they just made people who PK'd red/open pvp again, so that people could go 'red hunting' like they used to, it would create content. Not stop people from entering cities or anything, just make it so people can kill you without penalty. It's not flawless, the zergs will still happen, but you won't have to wait or go grey. Then everything is in the players hands and people gotta defend their own stuff. People talking about they 'own' a territory, but do they really if they have a bunch of alliances/NAPs lol. If you don't decide what happens on your territory, you don't own shit.
Everyone is making their own gains, there is no policing because there is no gain to police. Giving policing a gain is way smarter than punishing ganking. It's just hard to think of a way to reward people that wouldn't be exploited by people killing their red friends. IF that was possible to avoid, you could put clade exp, gold, whatever on it... however, it's not. Give red kids open pvp and a long res cooldown is about the best you can do IMO, will affect them in wars/real fights that last, too. That should be the most strict thing. You can't outcast pvpers because they just zerg harder then. The harder the restriction, the more people zerg and play unfairly cuz people are soft.
I'll say it once again RED brought content to the game, people were afraid of reds, people saw reds as targets, red made people want to flee, want to fight, it was promoting action. THE GAME NEEDS PROMOTED PLAYER ACTION *NOT* PROMOTED SUPPRESSION!! TRUST ME.