Stam penalty change is horrible

[Evelyn]

Here once again to remind you that they could have reduced the stamina penalty on full steel like everybody wanted instead of putting stamina penalties on every other armor type and screwing up foot melee even more and that your input does not actually matter.

 

[Woody]

Here once again to remind you that they could have reduced the stamina penalty on full steel like everybody wanted instead of putting stamina penalties on every other armor type and screwing up foot melee even more and that your input does not actually matter.

They did though

Heavy armor stam penalty is almost half with this new system compared to the old system.

And on top of that, the sliders have been tweaked so that lower sliders have less impact on the defence values.

 

[Tzone]

They did though

They also added not wanted stam penalties on every other armor type. All they had to do was lower steel weight then see if anything else was needed.

 

[Woody]

They also added not wanted stam penalties on every other armor type. All they had to do was lower steel weight then see if anything else was needed.

That's fine. Others hold a different opinion and so as not to beat a dead horse, thanks Valoran:

Here are the pros and cons I see for the new system:

Pros:

1. Removed the mental block causing players to only ever wear equipment that is under their stamina penalty threshold, thereby increasing used armor weight variety - This is huge
   
   
2. Adds value to lighter sets as they will always have a small stamina benefit over heavier sets. Previously there was no reason to wear lighter armor if you have free threshold weight available, other than mana regeneration for mages. With this new system even light fighters have a reason for wearing light or medium armor
   
   
3. The system is more intuitive, logical and consistent with other game systems; weapon weight and horse armor weight work this way already, as well as the attributes
   
   
4. Removes the need to get 100 heavy armor training for the penalty threshold increase, freeing up points to use elsewhere if you only intend on wearing medium or light armor
   
   
5. Puts a greater emphasis on proper stamina management, increasing the skill ceiling. People who arent managing their stamina efficiently or play is if the penalty wasn't there will have this issue surface quicker in a fight than before.

Cons:

1. Lighter armors had a small stamina penalty introduced that they didn't previously have.
   
   This being a con is debatable, because yes it's a "nerf" compared to the old system, but it's relative to weights and penalties in the new system, not the old one.
   
   The #2 pro above only exists with this difference in stamina regeneration, so I consider it a pro. Even if you have slightly worse regeneration than the old system with lighter armors, it applies for everyone, so it's not like you have an 8% penalty and someone else in some other armor has no penalty, everyone has some amount of penalty which now scales with the weight.
   
   Unless you're naked.

l am very excited to see how this goes, because the #1 pro I listed has been an issue in my opinion for many years now going back to MO1. Of course they can tweak the value of the penalty increase if it's not having the results they want, or similarly they could add some kind of curve to give more benefit to lighter armor.

The balance possibilities here are numerous and likely easy to implement if need be.

 

[Tzone]

There are reasons for wearing medium armor.

You get less stamina penalty, less jump penalty, more mana regeneration and usually a lower cost for your armor.

Whether or not you personally think they're worth it is another story, but there are reasons for it.

The fact that heavy armor is not a mandatory skill anymore is a good thing. Now you can simply remove points from the skill if you never intend on wearing heavier armor, allowing a small amount more build diversity.

The stam penalty for medium armor is 4% difference from steel armor and you move at the same speed. The Jump penalty is so bad with medium armor it doesnt matter if heavy armor is less jump height.

Even with light armor the gameplay is worse over all with any stam penalty. In the past with threshold you have reasons to go medium armor on purpose not just because its all you have at the moment. Still the only reason to go light armor is mana. After you meat the mana threshold then might as well go heavy.

Gameplay legitimately got worse and most people see the changes are not wanting to come back even more.

 

[Update Journal]

I like the change
HOWEVER
There isn't any real counter play against mounted outside of archery/magic nukes, and yet even then those counters are more effective as a mounted yourself so....

 

[LordMega]

1. Stam change penalty for armor weight sucks
2. Jump height change for armor weight sucks

It already feels like the movement as a heavy armor footfighter sucks/was too clunky/slow. It wasn't needed to make it even worse, it was "fine" as it was. And for those who keep saying "suggest an alternative then" the alternative is the old mechanics, we don't need a solution for a problem that does not exist.

 

[Tzone]

1. Stam change penalty for armor weight sucks
2. Jump height change for armor weight sucks

It already feels like the movement as a heavy armor footfighter sucks/was too clunky/slow. It wasn't needed to make it even worse, it was "fine" as it was. And for those who keep saying "suggest an alternative then" the alternative is the old mechanics, we don't need a solution for a problem that does not exist.

Movement speed didnt change but for some reason it does feel slower. The game just feels slower after last patch and people cant figure out why.
Maybe headbob changes between armor for some reason. Maybe FoV? Im just speculating but something feels off, Me and other people feel it.

 

[LordMega]

Movement speed didnt change but for some reason it does feel slower. The game just feels slower after last patch and people cant figure out why.
Maybe headbob changes between armor for some reason. Maybe FoV? Im just speculating but something feels off, Me and other people feel it.

Yeah I know it didn't change, it was just ass to begin with and that's why I don't use steel even though I have several full steel sets. Slowww. No point in using steel unless I'm mounted.

 

[Rorry]

They should be able to tell that they screwed up with some change or other from this patch, as fast as the world has cleared out since it went live. Empty.

 

[Eskaldar]

I think so, the change is good, but I don't understand why the penalty starts with 0 KG? It seems to me that a penalty for those who have armor/heave armor skills should start with at least 10 KG. I think this is more plausible.
Why?
Everything is simple. A person who is used to wearing heavy armor is unlikely to feel at least some difficulties and loss of endurance when wearing 10KG. For example, in our life we constantly carry on ourselves from 1.5 to 5 KG, or maybe more, and we don't seem to experience difficulties, but here is a trained person, so I don't understand why the penalty starts with 0 KG?

 

[Woody]

I think so, the change is good, but I don't understand why the penalty starts with 0 KG? It seems to me that a penalty for those who have armor/heave armor skills should start with at least 10 KG. I think this is more plausible.
Why?
Everything is simple. A person who is used to wearing heavy armor is unlikely to feel at least some difficulties and loss of endurance when wearing 10KG. For example, in our life we constantly carry on ourselves from 1.5 to 5 KG, or maybe more, and we don't seem to experience difficulties, but here is a trained person, so I don't understand why the penalty starts with 0 KG?

The training aspect of what you're saying is simulated by the armor weight caps, and the ability to use armor efficiently (through up to 200 primary points invested). As exceeding the armor weight cap greatly decreases speed, stamina regen and jump height even more so and prevents you from riding horses.

2kg is where the actual stamina penalties start. Everyone has 101% stamina regen as far as I know.

 

[Eskaldar]

The training aspect of what you're saying is simulated by the armor weight caps, and the ability to use armor efficiently (through up to 200 primary points invested). As exceeding the armor weight cap greatly decreases speed, stamina regen and jump height even more so and prevents you from riding horses.

2kg is where the actual stamina penalties start. Everyone has 101% stamina regen as far as I know.

Okay, 2 KG. Why does this figure not change if, for example, I have learned armor training and heavy armor training? why still 2KG? It's stupid.
It turns out that no skill affects the recovery of stamina?

Continuing the topic. I don't understand why the heavy armor training skill only affects the movement speed? I'm just always used to looking at reality. In life, the speed of movement does not decrease so much from the transported cargo, unless it is of course a container of 30-100 KG.
I just ran with a backpack of 30 kg and without it, and the speed of movement did not differ much. Yes, sprinting with a load is more difficult, especially at the beginning, but normal running and walking does not affect at all if the load is up to 30 KG evenly distributed over the body. What I think should affect, from the point of view of logic, and Henrik himself said that they adhere to logic when building mechanics, is the cost of endurance when moving and when striking, because the weight of the armor, like heavy winter clothing, binds and weights the arms and legs and puts it on all the actions that you do, making them difficult and thereby exhausting you more if you were not wearing this armor.

 

[Woody]

Okay, 2 KG. Why does this figure not change if, for example, I have learned armor training and heavy armor training? why still 2KG? It's stupid.
It turns out that no skill affects the recovery of stamina?

2kg is when the first penalty hits which is penalty to magic regen. This is where the realism arguments toward game mechanics can be hard to justify appropriately though. Maybe it should raise the lower threshold on this basis, I'm not entirely sure. However, we're then back to the point where players/builds who shouldn't need to take armor training, feel compelled to on the basis of min maxing the thresholds. Now it's just a matter of the cap which enables those builds to drop it.

 

[Valoran]

Okay, 2 KG. Why does this figure not change if, for example, I have learned armor training and heavy armor training? why still 2KG? It's stupid.
It turns out that no skill affects the recovery of stamina?

Continuing the topic. I don't understand why the heavy armor training skill only affects the movement speed? I'm just always used to looking at reality. In life, the speed of movement does not decrease so much from the transported cargo, unless it is of course a container of 30-100 KG.
I just ran with a backpack of 30 kg and without it, and the speed of movement did not differ much. Yes, sprinting with a load is more difficult, especially at the beginning, but normal running and walking does not affect at all if the load is up to 30 KG evenly distributed over the body. What I think should affect, from the point of view of logic, and Henrik himself said that they adhere to logic when building mechanics, is the cost of endurance when moving and when striking, because the weight of the armor, like heavy winter clothing, binds and weights the arms and legs and puts it on all the actions that you do, making them difficult and thereby exhausting you more if you were not wearing this armor.

As Woody already said, if your armor training skill affected the stamina penalty from armor it would make heavy armor training a mandatory skill again, as everyone would "need" it to be viable.

Also this new system is quite realistic. Any amount of extra weight on your body will cause you to exert more energy to continue moving at the same speed, which in game manifests as longer recovery time.

At light weights the penalty is extremely small and barely even measurable, but after many kilograms of added weight it starts to accumulate and become noticeable.

 

[Rolufe]

They really at least should revert the jump height back to thresholds. Today to day we fought legion, they ran/ended up in "pool" which is a 6in pool of water in GK ruins. If you have your weapon out its impossible to jump out. This legion dude got stuck in there and could not escape with out putting a weapon away with 4 of us ontop of him. Stuff like this is bad for the game which has so much janky environment thats hard to move in due to not being polished and a sandbox. He was wearing medium armor and could not do such a short jump with IRL you could just step op onto.

This might not need jump height but some tweaks to how high you can step. Would be useful to have vaulting or climbing like many other games tend to have to get over or on top half character and full character sized objects.

Edit: They could even make it so that depending on weight and armor weight compared to str its slower to pull yourself up over a ledge or that you just run out of stam and fail

 

[Tzone]

Another thing Im adding on to the complaint list is that its very tedious to travel on foot anywhere now. Before you would just combat kite and regain stamina while walking with weapon out. Now walking with weapon out gives so little stam that you just would rather stand still to get stamina back faster.

Its another annoying thing with this change that just makes me not want to log in anymore.

 

[LordMega]

Another thing Im adding on to the complaint list is that its very tedious to travel on foot anywhere now. Before you would just combat kite and regain stamina while walking with weapon out. Now walking with weapon out gives so little stam that you just would rather stand still to get stamina back faster.

I noticed this as well. Takes forever to run around on foot now.

 

[Tzone]

I noticed this as well. Takes forever to run around on foot now.

I dont see the reason for the stam changes at all. Its just another unfun change with no balance impact. Almost every patch has something that makes the game less fun. Amazon makes a game that falls short of being fun, while SV makes a fun game and then retroactively makes it unfun.

If the goal is to have armor diversity which is not going to happen with linear negatives from weight then they should have buffed stam regen first and then had armor give penalties to return to the old baselines.

I see no benifit to the current system. Im going to call it that they do a soft reven, half way and still partially have the horrible stam penalties. Its going to be like gas prices when they raise the prive by a dollar then lower it down to half a dollar, so people stop being mad because they think the price decreased.

They really just need to revert it fully.

 

[Woody]

... I see no benifit to the current system ...

• No longer a 100-200 primary point requirement to manage pigeonholed thresholds
• Scalable penalties based on all weights giving consideration to all armor classes across the scale, stamina penalty vs defense.
• Now a more intuitive system
• Gives relevance to materials sliders in crafting
  • Additionally, sliders now have a lower penalty for allocating less material
• Heavy armor weight stamina regen penalty is now less in comparison to exceeding the old stamina threshold.