Stam penalty change is horrible

[Valoran]

I dont see the reason for the stam changes at all. Its just another unfun change with no balance impact. Almost every patch has something that makes the game less fun. Amazon makes a game that falls short of being fun, while SV makes a fun game and then retroactively makes it unfun.

If the goal is to have armor diversity which is not going to happen with linear negatives from weight then they should have buffed stam regen first and then had armor give penalties to return to the old baselines.

I see no benifit to the current system. Im going to call it that they do a soft reven, half way and still partially have the horrible stam penalties. Its going to be like gas prices when they raise the prive by a dollar then lower it down to half a dollar, so people stop being mad because they think the price decreased.

They really just need to revert it fully.

As has been pointed out many times in this thread already, there are many benefits and only one real con.

Choosing to hyper focus in on that single con while ignoring the long list of benefits to the new system can be understandable as that's human nature, but taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture is important for these kinds of core changes.

Henrik has also said that they're going to tweak the system likely in the next patch, so we should see some improvement which will likely be a curve so the amount of penalty you get at lower weights is less, as many people have suggested as a possibility since it was introduced.


Overall this new system as a baseline is far better than the old one, they just need to hone in the values to make it the best it can be, as almost no system is ever perfect in its first iteration.

 

[Pech]

There are reasons for wearing medium armor.

You get less stamina penalty, less jump penalty, more mana regeneration and usually a lower cost for your armor.

Whether or not you personally think they're worth it is another story, but there are reasons for it.

The fact that heavy armor is not a mandatory skill anymore is a good thing. Now you can simply remove points from the skill if you never intend on wearing heavier armor, allowing a small amount more build diversity.

And how did this turn out for you. The system needed to be tweaked and changed and medium armor was 100% nerfed and put in a worse place and the devs agreed and added a curve.

Nothing else to add here other than Im glad the developers listened to us and adjusted the system to better suit medium armor players, and thank god they ignored those saying the system didnt need to be changed. Good work SV

 

[Tzone]

As has been pointed out many times in this thread already, there are many benefits and only one real con.

Choosing to hyper focus in on that single con while ignoring the long list of benefits to the new system can be understandable as that's human nature, but taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture is important for these kinds of core changes.

Henrik has also said that they're going to tweak the system likely in the next patch, so we should see some improvement which will likely be a curve so the amount of penalty you get at lower weights is less, as many people have suggested as a possibility since it was introduced.


Overall this new system as a baseline is far better than the old one, they just need to hone in the values to make it the best it can be, as almost no system is ever perfect in its first iteration.

There are no benefits and plenty of cons. I am testing the new version but when you change just makes people not want to play after coming back from NW then its pretty bad.

The only reason to hurt the game like this is to make armor use more diverse which it did not. It just made the game more tedious which it was already tedious but tolerable. It did not meet the goal of diversifying armor, pushed players to not want to play, made travel more annoying, limited player actions of being able to feint to get around blocks, also limited the amount of attack people could perform one after another.

 

[Valoran]

And how did this turn out for you. The system needed to be tweaked and changed and medium armor was 100% nerfed and put in a worse place and the devs agreed and added a curve.

Nothing else to add here other than Im glad the developers listened to us and adjusted the system to better suit medium armor players, and thank god they ignored those saying the system didnt need to be changed. Good work SV

Could you please quote me saying the system shouldn't be changed?

I have said many times in this thread that the system is likely not perfect, as first iterations often arent, and if you read one message above yours you'll see me predicting this curve as one of the potential tweaks they might make in this patch.

So i'm not sure why you're directing this comment at me, because this change is perfectly in line with what I and others that see the benefits of the new system have been saying since the thread was started.

If they had listened to the other people in here they would have reverted the change completely, which would have been a downgrade as the new system is clearly better and just needed a small tweak which we now have.

 

[Valoran]

There are no benefits and plenty of cons. I am testing the new version but when you change just makes people not want to play after coming back from NW then its pretty bad.

The only reason to hurt the game like this is to make armor use more diverse which it did not. It just made the game more tedious which it was already tedious but tolerable. It did not meet the goal of diversifying armor, pushed players to not want to play, made travel more annoying, limited player actions of being able to feint to get around blocks, also limited the amount of attack people could perform one after another.

Again, there are benefits no matter how many times you want to ignore them, and the issues you describe are results of the one con of the new system.

With this tweak however the new system still maintains all these benefits but eases up on the impact of the single con being lighter armors now have a penalty they didn't used to have. This is still true, only less so.

 

[Tzone]

Still bad, just because they undid a terrible thing partially doesnt mean its ok now. On my mage I dont want to wear any armor and on my fighter just wear the heaviest possible. Ogh with high stam still out run everything while having some of the most busted clade gifts.

Lessens the amount that some people want to log in even less. People coming back from new world trash talk it then stop logging in. Just revet it fully, this is the wrong direction.

 

[Tzone]

Again, there are benefits no matter how many times you want to ignore them, and the issues you describe are results of the one con of the new system.

With this tweak however the new system still maintains all these benefits but eases up on the impact of the single con being lighter armors now have a penalty they didn't used to have. This is still true, only less so.

To hell with a tweak, just revert it already. If there are benefits then you should at least be able to list them instead of dodging discussion.

Im sick and tired of having months of terrible changes that make people not want to play just stay and being told you just have to cope with it. Then having people defend the changes with out actually having a discussion.

They took stama regen away from the players. They took something away from us. The game is now worse and more limiting. Its is bad period. A normal dev would know this would upset people and instead buff regen and then add a penalty because then you are giving something to the players instead of taking away.

All these litte terrible changes that you can cope with by then selves add up untill there is a straw that broke the camels back scenrio. Thats what happened to me. I cant stand this shit anymore.

 

[Woody]

To hell with a tweak, just revert it already. If there are benefits then you should at least be able to list them instead of dodging discussion.

Im sick and tired of having months of terrible changes that make people not want to play just stay and being told you just have to cope with it. Then having people defend the changes with out actually having a discussion.

They took stama regen away from the players. They took something away from us. The game is now worse and more limiting. Its is bad period. A normal dev would know this would upset people and instead buff regen and then add a penalty because then you are giving something to the players instead of taking away.

All these litte terrible changes that you can cope with by then selves add up untill there is a straw that broke the camels back scenrio. Thats what happened to me. I cant stand this shit anymore.

What?

To Valoran's defence, he has provided extremely detailed responses to this discussion throughout including this "list" below.

Here are the pros and cons I see for the new system:

Pros:

1. Removed the mental block causing players to only ever wear equipment that is under their stamina penalty threshold, thereby increasing used armor weight variety - This is huge
   
   
2. Adds value to lighter sets as they will always have a small stamina benefit over heavier sets. Previously there was no reason to wear lighter armor if you have free threshold weight available, other than mana regeneration for mages. With this new system even light fighters have a reason for wearing light or medium armor
   
   
3. The system is more intuitive, logical and consistent with other game systems; weapon weight and horse armor weight work this way already, as well as the attributes
   
   
4. Removes the need to get 100 heavy armor training for the penalty threshold increase, freeing up points to use elsewhere if you only intend on wearing medium or light armor
   
   
5. Puts a greater emphasis on proper stamina management, increasing the skill ceiling. People who arent managing their stamina efficiently or play is if the penalty wasn't there will have this issue surface quicker in a fight than before.

Cons:

1. Lighter armors had a small stamina penalty introduced that they didn't previously have.
   
   This being a con is debatable, because yes it's a "nerf" compared to the old system, but it's relative to weights and penalties in the new system, not the old one.
   
   The #2 pro above only exists with this difference in stamina regeneration, so I consider it a pro. Even if you have slightly worse regeneration than the old system with lighter armors, it applies for everyone, so it's not like you have an 8% penalty and someone else in some other armor has no penalty, everyone has some amount of penalty which now scales with the weight.
   
   Unless you're naked.

l am very excited to see how this goes, because the #1 pro I listed has been an issue in my opinion for many years now going back to MO1. Of course they can tweak the value of the penalty increase if it's not having the results they want, or similarly they could add some kind of curve to give more benefit to lighter armor.

The balance possibilities here are numerous and likely easy to implement if need be.

 

[Valoran]

To hell with a tweak, just revert it already. If there are benefits then you should at least be able to list them instead of dodging discussion.

Im sick and tired of having months of terrible changes that make people not want to play just stay and being told you just have to cope with it. Then having people defend the changes with out actually having a discussion.

They took stama regen away from the players. They took something away from us. The game is now worse and more limiting. Its is bad period. A normal dev would know this would upset people and instead buff regen and then add a penalty because then you are giving something to the players instead of taking away.

All these litte terrible changes that you can cope with by then selves add up untill there is a straw that broke the camels back scenrio. Thats what happened to me. I cant stand this shit anymore.

As Woody already kindly pointed out, I've listed the pros and con of the new system compared to the old along with various other factors, all while maintaining relative civility. You on the other hand have been doing the exact thing you just accused me of, and dodging real discussion in favor of complaining and being dramatic.

If you want to have a discussion about the system then please address the points that have been made, and we can talk about it. Otherwise I can only assume you are either choosing to not actually read anything people are saying, or you have read them and don't have a reasonable response.


Judging by your tone here and in your other post though I would advise simply taking a break from these forums and the MO2 discord in general for a while, as it's clearly causing you distress.