Stam penalty change is horrible

[Harshmellow]

Many people are mentioning how this hurts foot fighters relative to mounted. That is a separate issue that should be addressed in a different manner.

This stam penalty for armor weight makes sense logically and gameplay wise. People saying it nerfs medium armor are missing the point. It is a linear scale per kg of armor. It nerfs all armor, and makes a meaningful decision whether you will wear 8kg of armor, or 14kg of armor. Before, unless you were a mage, wearing less than 14kg of armor wasn't smart. Now you receive a slight benefit if you wear less armor. Here is why it's balanced: you should probably still choose to wear those 14kg of armor, because it is worth the penalty. If it is still worth choosing the heavier armors, how is that not balanced.

As mentioned it, relatively speaking, buffs mounted players and mages. That is something that could be addressed separately, if it's an issue.

 

[Raknor]

Many people are mentioning how this hurts foot fighters relative to mounted. That is a separate issue that should be addressed in a different manner.

This stam penalty for armor weight makes sense logically and gameplay wise. People saying it nerfs medium armor are missing the point. It is a linear scale per kg of armor. It nerfs all armor, and makes a meaningful decision whether you will wear 8kg of armor, or 14kg of armor. Before, unless you were a mage, wearing less than 14kg of armor wasn't smart. Now you receive a slight benefit if you wear less armor. Here is why it's balanced: you should probably still choose to wear those 14kg of armor, because it is worth the penalty. If it is still worth choosing the heavier armors, how is that not balanced.

As mentioned it, relatively speaking, buffs mounted players and mages. That is something that could be addressed separately, if it's an issue.

Well it doesn't nerf all armors equally since steel got a boost - it was hard enough to justify using other metals in armor other than steel, this made it worse and I would like to see some cuprum based alloys around in something other than sledgehammers (not to even mention tungsteel and advanced alloys here)

 

[Deleted member 44]

Out of all the changes we have gotten this is definitly the worse. Footfighters are already in a tough spot. Cant see how nerfing them like this was at all a priority

Foot fighters are not in a tough spot. You want to be as fast as a horse and have all the tools of playing on foot. Not gonna happen. I agree that this change was bad for the game, but I'm getting really sick of the nerf mounts argument.

 

[AssassinOTL]

This is a good change for the game although many will only see that it's bad, that's because there was a bad implementation of armor to begin with, a new player with light armor vs the same build in heavy armor - the better player obv had to do little to no stam preservation, and just swing away with reckless abandon, and if the light armor noob decided to turn and run, guess what? the vet in heavy armor could run him down and still kill him with no repercussion or stam management. this is good for the game and it should be embraced.

also this could also fix that problem of fights taking too long because it was all to easy for Fighters to get fully stamed back up, now if you wear the heavy armor and decide to play like you did before you'll put yourself in a bad position and the fights wont take as long as they used to I think this solves a lot of problems and issues that were there before but it seems like an inconvenience for now but will be better for the game in the long run

 

[Tzone]

This is a good change for the game although many will only see that it's bad, that's because there was a bad implementation of armor to begin with, a new player with light armor vs the same build in heavy armor - the better player obv had to do little to no stam preservation, and just swing away with reckless abandon, and if the light armor noob decided to turn and run, guess what? the vet in heavy armor could run him down and still kill him with no repercussion or stam management. this is good for the game and it should be embraced.

also this could also fix that problem of fights taking too long because it was all to easy for Fighters to get fully stamed back up, now if you wear the heavy armor and decide to play like you did before you'll put yourself in a bad position and the fights wont take as long as they used to I think this solves a lot of problems and issues that were there before but it seems like an inconvenience for now but will be better for the game in the long run

Fights never took too long. The old system was working for FF. Nothing needed to bechanged. Ive seen fight actually last longer now after then change. If people arent dying then someone isnt landing hits or focusing down a player.

 

[Woody]

Well it doesn't nerf all armors equally since steel got a boost - it was hard enough to justify using other metals in armor other than steel, this made it worse and I would like to see some cuprum based alloys around in something other than sledgehammers (not to even mention tungsteel and advanced alloys here)

Steel's weight was overtuned even before the changes made to armor weight penalties.

Fights never took too long. The old system was working for FF. Nothing needed to bechanged. Ive seen fight actually last longer now after then change. If people arent dying then someone isnt landing hits or focusing down a player.

This change is targeting armor as a whole, and has considerations for all playstyles, not just FF.

 

[Tzone]

They really at least should revert the jump height back to thresholds. Today to day we fought legion, they ran/ended up in "pool" which is a 6in pool of water in GK ruins. If you have your weapon out its impossible to jump out. This legion dude got stuck in there and could not escape with out putting a weapon away with 4 of us ontop of him. Stuff like this is bad for the game which has so much janky environment thats hard to move in due to not being polished and a sandbox. He was wearing medium armor and could not do such a short jump with IRL you could just step op onto.

 

[Tzone]

This change is targeting armor as a whole, and has considerations for all playstyles, not just FF.

This does not affect mounted at all. Stam is not needed so stam regen is not applicable. Mounted still need just to meet a the old threshold of max armor weight to ride a horse.

Playing a MA I can shoot non stop with 85% grey stam bar in the current state with mostly steel armor. This change affects FFs and nerfs them.

 

[Woody]

This does not affect mounted at all. Stam is not needed so stam regen is not applicable. Mounted still need just to meet a the old threshold of max armor weight to ride a horse.

Playing a MA I can shoot non stop with 85% grey stam bar in the current state with mostly steel armor. This change affects FFs and nerfs them.

I don't believe the changes made to Armor weight are finished yet and especially not with regards to mounted. We know this because as it was mentioned on the recent dev stream, your player weight is going to impact the speed of your mount, so it's safe to assume this will include armor weight too.

On a side note, I agree, there definitely needs to be player stamina considerations when mounted (such as this idea) but this is going off topic for this particular thread.

 

[Jatix]

Some bonus stam change salt. IB weights several more kg than bone. This now means that your 'better' material is worse than the bone the second you need to regen stam. Awesome. If we are going to haev a bad stam penalty system, most armor materials need to have the same weight. Then the stam penalty will be based on the armor type and not material. Right now its just stupid. It wants you to make shit gear because the better gear isnt better making it not worth the time to get.

 

[Valoran]

Some bonus stam change salt. IB weights several more kg than bone. This now means that your 'better' material is worse than the bone the second you need to regen stam. Awesome. If we are going to haev a bad stam penalty system, most armor materials need to have the same weight. Then the stam penalty will be based on the armor type and not material. Right now its just stupid. It wants you to make shit gear because the better gear isnt better making it not worth the time to get.

To use your example, an Ironbone / Guard fur Tindremic Knight set weighs 3kg more than the same set made with bone tissue.

At 0.5% per 1kg of armor, that's a 1.5% increase in stamina penalty, which is an increase in the time it takes to regenerate an entire stamina bar of under 300 milliseconds.

This difference is barely even measurable, in exchange for noticeably better damage mitigation.


That's a worthy trade in my opinion.

 

[Jatix]

To use your example, an Ironbone / Guard fur Tindremic Knight set weighs 3kg more than the same set made with bone tissue.

At 0.5% per 1kg of armor, that's a 1.5% increase in stamina penalty, which is an increase in the time it takes to regenerate an entire stamina bar of under 300 milliseconds.

This difference is barely even measurable, in exchange for noticeably better damage mitigation.


That's a worthy trade in my opinion.

Like ya its not the end of the world, the difference itself is pretty small. But it bugs me that ironbone even has a con over bone tissue. Its the better material. why does it have a con? This has always bugged me with MO materials. Tung sword is stronger and cost way more than steel. but its heavier cuz why not try to make it less good. Pansar is better than Plate. but dont worry, it weighs more. Even tho it takes significantly longer to farm and should just be better. For mage sets in MO1 it was aids because you could just use a heavier stronger set with a worse material and be almost as good as pansar with a lighter armor. In a grindy timesink game that you can get zerged and die at any point, your more valuble better gear shouldn't have cons. It needs every benefit it can get, otherwise id rather just roll garbage and hope I win. Worst case scenario I dont and lose nothing anyway.

 

[Evelyn]

 

[ElPerro]

View attachment 2471

Welcome to Mortal Online Balance 101


Remember int scaling? xD

 

[Tzone]

So for feed back after PvPing with the new system. This is between and relative FFs and other FFs.

Buffed builds that had higher max stam. Lower max stam is at a disadvantage.
Since getting stam back is now slower you have more of a advantaged for starting out with more stam.

Oghs got a major buff with this and now can seem to run for ever compared to other clades due to higher stamina. Haven't fought many thursars yet.

Mages got a nerf with this as they regain less stam while standing still causing FFs who have higher max stam to keep pressure to drain them.

 

[Tzone]

Many people are mentioning how this hurts foot fighters relative to mounted. That is a separate issue that should be addressed in a different manner.

This stam penalty for armor weight makes sense logically and gameplay wise. People saying it nerfs medium armor are missing the point. It is a linear scale per kg of armor. It nerfs all armor, and makes a meaningful decision whether you will wear 8kg of armor, or 14kg of armor. Before, unless you were a mage, wearing less than 14kg of armor wasn't smart. Now you receive a slight benefit if you wear less armor. Here is why it's balanced: you should probably still choose to wear those 14kg of armor, because it is worth the penalty. If it is still worth choosing the heavier armors, how is that not balanced.

As mentioned it, relatively speaking, buffs mounted players and mages. That is something that could be addressed separately, if it's an issue.

After PvPing a lot with the new changes I can for sure say I hate it. New meta is drop heavy armor skill points unless you can wear steel. Then wear the heaviest thing you can unless mage. Its more dumbed down now gear wise. Get out stamed by Oghs who can just stand still every 3 mins and for 16 seconds be invulnerable. At least veela arent meta anymore if you were the more skilled player.

There is no meaningful decision in the armor choices you make.

 

[Pech]

pre change i could run 16kgs of armor without taking stam or jumping penalties with maxed heavy armor skill. This is just not possible anymore. No matter what your heavy armor skill is, youll have the same stamina and jumping debuff at 16kgs as any other player.

race, weight, hight, skills... None of these matter anymore when it comes to your stamina with armor. All they impact is the max weight before a speed debuff, and max weight to mount horses. Otherwise as of now everyone is the exact same with armor weight debuffs. How do people support this?

there is ZERO reason to take medium armor over heavy anymore. 16kg with maxed heavy offers zero benifits and the 4% stamina you get for not wearing steel is patheticly small Especially when the difference in armor is 48 slashing to 65 slashing. heavy armor training now only impacts the max movespeed you can have.

This is, without any doubt, a nerf to armor weights and foot fighters and it just removed a potential playstyle.
Remind you that this playstyle still took 200 primarys just to run.

Heavy armor is only useful if you want to max out your weight.

They need to bring back some form of stamina/jumping for people who have high heavy armor training.

Foot fighters are not in a tough spot. You want to be as fast as a horse and have all the tools of playing on foot. Not gonna happen. I agree that this change was bad for the game, but I'm getting really sick of the nerf mounts argument.

Wana know whats funny about this? I didnt mention mounted nerfs once yet he jumped to the conclusion that I was asking for one. Classic
I want foot fighting to be interesting and fun. Its what I started playing the game for. Right now its basicly just one build or nothing at all

 

[Tzone]

I want foot fighting to be interesting and fun. Its what I started playing the game for. Right now its basicly just one build or nothing at all

Overall I feel it was a fun nerf for FFs.

 

[Teknique]

I’m actually scared to try it.

particularly concerned about low stam builds.

whoever is feeding them ideas that we want more penalties and delays for everything is trolling fo real fo real

I’d actually be down to just remove the heavy armor penalty entirely. It was added in MO1 due to tc mines and over abundance of steel. It’s like they forget why they even add things.

I still haven’t felt the impact of this change but Ialso don’t see the reason for it

 

[Valoran]

pre change i could run 16kgs of armor without taking stam or jumping penalties with maxed heavy armor skill. This is just not possible anymore. No matter what your heavy armor skill is, youll have the same stamina and jumping debuff at 16kgs as any other player.

race, weight, hight, skills... None of these matter anymore when it comes to your stamina with armor. All they impact is the max weight before a speed debuff, and max weight to mount horses. Otherwise as of now everyone is the exact same with armor weight debuffs. How do people support this?

there is ZERO reason to take medium armor over heavy anymore. 16kg with maxed heavy offers zero benifits and the 4% stamina you get for not wearing steel is patheticly small Especially when the difference in armor is 48 slashing to 65 slashing. heavy armor training now only impacts the max movespeed you can have.

This is, without any doubt, a nerf to armor weights and foot fighters and it just removed a potential playstyle.
Remind you that this playstyle still took 200 primarys just to run.

Heavy armor is only useful if you want to max out your weight.

They need to bring back some form of stamina/jumping for people who have high heavy armor training.


Wana know whats funny about this? I didnt mention mounted nerfs once yet he jumped to the conclusion that I was asking for one. Classic
I want foot fighting to be interesting and fun. Its what I started playing the game for. Right now its basicly just one build or nothing at all

There are reasons for wearing medium armor.

You get less stamina penalty, less jump penalty, more mana regeneration and usually a lower cost for your armor.

Whether or not you personally think they're worth it is another story, but there are reasons for it.

The fact that heavy armor is not a mandatory skill anymore is a good thing. Now you can simply remove points from the skill if you never intend on wearing heavier armor, allowing a small amount more build diversity.