How to prevent people from deleting items after looting!

[bbihah]

In LIF could you just res at a blue priest within 1 minute of dying and run back to a 20 minute long fight? I'm genuinely asking because I don't know.

If you were under attack and you died in your territory you would be back in the fight in a couple minutes as soon as res sickness fades, even sooner if you are a crossbow user. But you could just go and grab your gear regardless and the sickness would be gone by the time you got your stuff back, if no one grabbed it, combat looting would get you killed or severely hurt. Especially since it had to be done outside of combat mode and being outside of combat mode would mean increased damage taken. Most armor types, this would set you up for an almost one shot by heavy crossbow users. The game has no in fight healing, and that plays a big factor in it as well.


Now-a-days I think the res sickness timer is a lot longer, 10? 15? minutes. But you could still retrieve your gear if the fighting had moved away from your body and no one looted it. Healing times have decreased though, so if you don't die its a lot easier to get back in the fight now, which is better for zergs than it is for small groups.

I stopped playing when they wiped for the 3rd? time. That game EATS time to play and them just wiping all the god damn time burns you out so much.

indeed, salvaging was something requested since the dawn of MO1.

however being able to destroy items is quite usueful outside of pvp, since we cannot (yet) drop items like it was in UO

Oh yeah, destroying was very necessary back then. But if we could get a drop mechanic instead of destroy, then it would be closer to how it is in UO, or LiF.

Could even take some inspirations from MUDs and make it so when you drop or trash things in towns, instead of the item being destroyed they all get put in a lost and found box in town. This could possibly be a source for some "trash" for newbies.

 

[Kuroi]

i would love a drop mechanic

 

[Magos]

I get that it would be a huge pain in big fights, but the thing I really don't like about deleting loot is you can go into someones TC, kill all their miners, delete everything, and leave. It's a form of griefing. The same way you can kill someone transporting and just delete everything to grief them for no other reason. It drives a lot of players away from the game.
That being said I don't believe they will do anything with dropping loot on the ground, it adds to server load and Seb has said he doesn't like it before because of that.

 

[barcode]

server load is easy enough to fix, using the existing mining 'nodes' grid system. first dropped loot in a node drops at your feet, any other drops that players do simply accumulate in that bag rather than generating a new one

clients wont have a real performance issue since all the bags have an identical mesh.

-barcode

 

[Rorry]

If you like so much all the features of these other games go play them rather than try to change ours into your fantasy vision of them. If you don't even know about the changes already made in MO1 to where, like Magos, you complain about things that are already fixed please try to be less theoretical because it muddles up the discussion and erases your credibility.

And for the love of everything good please never again base an argument on realism. The game has magic.

 

[Ebenminx]

I can Agree with this i Like the idea Behind being able to Place loot on the ground rather then destroying it so someone else can pick it up also. (Technically i think been a while but in Ultima Online you could just simply click and drag the loot back to the Corpse) ( In my mind this would be ideal rather then replacing the loot in a separate new loot bag entity Mesh on ground)

 

[Magos]

If you like so much all the features of these other games go play them rather than try to change ours into your fantasy vision of them. If you don't even know about the changes already made in MO1 to where, like Magos, you complain about things that are already fixed please try to be less theoretical because it muddles up the discussion and erases your credibility.

And for the love of everything good please never again base an argument on realism. The game has magic.

I know it had a fix in MO1 why do you assume I don't? I was just saying what I remember talking to Seb about this same issue and his response.

In short I don't think it will get changed. Seb was very dismissive of the idea. And nothing technical has changed. So it would have to be Seb that would need to change.

 

[Rorry]

I get that it would be a huge pain in big fights, but the thing I really don't like about deleting loot is you can go into someones TC, kill all their miners, delete everything, and leave.

This? All in present tense. Unless you meant players mining? I took it to mean the old TC system where miners collected for you. If you meant players they will be able to defend themselves with skill in this game and don't have to lose their goods and also not need TC to protect them. If they aren't skilled enough to defend themselves they should practice rather than have a hand-hold mechanic to save their resources.

 

[Magos]

This? All in present tense. Unless you meant players mining? I took it to mean the old TC system where miners collected for you. If you meant players they will be able to defend themselves with skill in this game and don't have to lose their goods and also not need TC to protect them. If they aren't skilled enough to defend themselves they should practice rather than have a hand-hold mechanic to save their resources.

ya I mean you can still delete stuff though, it just takes a little longer. But it was a decent fix once they got all the quirks worked out of it. I did prefer at the time the dropping stuff on the ground idea though, as it's common in a lot of other games I play.

 

[Vagrant]

ya I mean you can still delete stuff though, it just takes a little longer. But it was a decent fix once they got all the quirks worked out of it. I did prefer at the time the dropping stuff on the ground idea though, as it's common in a lot of other games I play.

Yes it should work that if the victor/killer can't carry it, it drops back to the original loot bag for the owner or someone else to grab then to just decay with the original loot bag timer anyway ?
makes both the victor/killer and the victim prioritise what to carry.

also i dislike every AFK feature ever invented, that TC/miner/farmer/breeder system in MO was/is complete rubbish

 

[Magos]

Yes if the victor/killer can't carry it, it drops back to the original loot bag for the owner or someone else to grab then to just decay with the original loot bag timer anyway ?
makes both the victor/killer and the victim prioritise what to carry.

also i dislike every AFK feature ever invented, that TC/miner/farmer/breeder system in MO was/is complete rubbish

ya I think they were going for having a personal worker which can be fun in a lot of games, an npc that does the tedius stuff for you. But the implementation and how long it was allowed to stay in game was a mistake I think we can all agree with. I was actually really against it in the end. Warning friends to stay away, cause it was a trap and would break them.

 

[Eldrath]

Or how about the game does not get designed around NPCs playing the game for us? TC really screwed up some people perspective on how a sandbox should function.

We already have a drop function. It was in the first game for years. Deleting serves a completely different purpose.

But to update this thred with some real information: SV is "looking" into it according to the stream from last night. So there will be a change to this in the future, whatever that will be.

And Zeals only accomplishment in Mo1 was having a giant hateboner for AI.
Maybe not throw stones when you live in a glass house?

It´s more of personal thing for me, just not a fan of like you.

 

[Mauganra]

I'd rather default function is dropping items on the ground. And as @Amadman says, destroying should be an action that you have to do, taking time. Or maybe even require a fireplace to burn the item, to speed things up.

If clutter is a problem, just make items congregate to the nearest lootbag in the area if there are too many. Even show an indicator which bag its going when you drop the item, maybe even make lootbags look different based on total weight+amount in the lootbag so you can see from a bit of distance if a bag looks like it contains a lot of items or if its basically empty.

Please omg yes.

 

[Rhodri_Taliesin]

Silly to call realism in a game with magic spells.

That's a fallacious argument in and of itself Rorry; A lack of realism in regards to one matter does not constitute a rationale that realism should be completely tossed by the wayside in all other matters.

You can have both realistic and unrealistic elements as it pertains to context and the practical ability to do so.

 

[Rorry]

That's a fallacious argument in and of itself Rorry; A lack of realism in regards to one matter does not constitute a rationale that realism should be completely tossed by the wayside in all other matters.

You can have both realistic and unrealistic elements as it pertains to context and the practical ability to do so.

Fallacious doesn't mean untrue.

 

[barcode]

gotta agree with rorry on the point that 'realism' is not a valid reason for how any of the mechanics work in game.

pretty sure we disagree compeltely on how item destruction should happen but its correct to say that realism is not a valid reason whatsoever. SV needs to look beyond whats possible in the real world and consider what is best for the game.

some way of dismantling crafted gear which requires some time to do (and a crafting table to then fix) may not be a bad option, but outright item deletion shouldnt really be allowed. dropping should be the norm.

-barcode

 

[bbihah]

Fallacious doesn't mean untrue.

It can however mean misleading, or that what you said is a fallacy. It is also a synonym for illogical, which I think is what he meant.

Big words on the internet are not always read in the right tone, since its hard to show tone in text, especially when its correspondence and it can be easy to miss the context of words.

 

[Rhodri_Taliesin]

It can however mean misleading, or that what you said is a fallacy. It is also a synonym for illogical, which I think is what he meant.

Big words on the internet are not always read in the right tone, since its hard to show tone in text, especially when its correspondence and it can be easy to miss the context of words.

See at least Bbihah understands me.

 

[Rorry]

Statements can be logical but not factual as well. At any rate, it is pointless to use realism as a supporting argument in a game which isn't very realistic overall.

 

[bbihah]

Statements can be logical but not factual as well. At any rate, it is pointless to use realism as a supporting argument in a game which isn't very realistic overall.

I think this is generally true. It is however always nice to base things on reality to an extent as it gives one perspective as well as in most mechanics and contexts it is good design, in the sense that you see a thing and you expect it to work a certain way and then it does at least remotely do what you expected from a real experience of said thing.


Having played a couple sandbox mmo since mo1, it was always the case that dragging an item and putting it outside your inventory would drop it on the ground. The game is heavily inspired by UO and in UO last time i played it a million years ago when you drag dropped items out of your inventory they would be dropped on the ground. The only way I remember of actually deleting items was letting them decay from the ground as well as using trash bins.

I think a lot of new players also expect that from dragging and dropping items out of their inventory and then being told it would delete the item probably crumps their expectation a little bit. That is not really a reason to have it that way. But it is A point. AFAIK the only reason they didnt eventually do it in MO1 was that initially they couldn't pull it off, heck we had loads of server issues with creature loot as well as empty loot bags causing the server to degrade and crash before that was fixed. After that they could have worked on it but I guess it was never a priority? Now they have the chance to do it if they want to and with how salvaging materials from gear as well as maintaining gear is planned for mo2 it would make sense that having easy ways to remove items from the game is then a bad idea.