Combat performance feedback, from the observer's perspective.

[Rhias]

It would stop the whining from us and start the whining from eu.
Cant we just put the server somewhere where no one benefits from it so we all get shit ping?^^

How about an Australian server? Somewhere deep in the outback?

Edit:
Now to be serious. Is that desync really that big of an issue? It's not that you randomly get hit from pretty far away. It usually happens when moving away from a player, after being in melee distance. So it's pretty obvious that the enemy is aiming for your after being close to you.

 

[Dracu]

How about an Australian server? Somewhere deep in the outback?

i though of just going out into the ocean on a big expedition and digging the server under sea level. that way no one will ever get good ping and there will be pretty much no way for ppl to move there to get an advantage.

Perhaps SV could also artificially higher the ping... as an alternative without moving the server, i could imagine sending Seb per boat to restart the server might be a bit of a hassle if its under the sea.

 

[Kallardian Prince]

The only strange aspect of combat was how axe right swing charge animation can barely be differentiated from overhead. Everything else looked mostly ok. It might be true though, that SV should think about how to best explain to new players that due to network they should be prepared to get hit from distances that look like they are out of range. Yes that sounds bad when you point it out, but it would be worse than leaving new players alone with the experience. ?

 

[Eldrath]

The only strange aspect of combat was how axe right swing charge animation can barely be differentiated from overhead. Everything else looked mostly ok. It might be true though, that SV should think about how to best explain to new players that due to network they should be prepared to get hit from distances that look like they are out of range. Yes that sounds bad when you point it out, but it would be worse than leaving new players alone with the experience. ?

Yes, that would be one way. I made the video to show how it actually sometimes looks and any new player should be aware of that. Maybe it could be part of the tutorial? As in: "This a one world, one server game and sometimes you will experience lag between players like this *bam*"

Dunno, but just saying it´s better than MO1 and hoping that a big majority will overlook desync is quiet optimistic.


Edit:
If backpaddling is one of the major culprits why don´t we decrease the walking speed of walking backwards to 25%? We would need free look for kiting though.

 

[Holypimp]

Woah I didn't expect the thread to be this active, looks like there's still a lot of talking to be made about the desync issue. That being said, I know SV is probably doing everything they possibly can to mitigate this problem as much as possible, but i'm just not sure it's going to do the job in the long run.

SV always said that the target audience for Mortal Online was a niche hardcore, griefing, brutal playerbase, but i'm starting to believe MO2 could be accessible to such a wider audience if they would stop playing the ostrich and maybe realise The Vision (TM) is just not physically doable, due to latency from players scattered all over the planet playing on one world server.


I have made a lot of my normie friends try MO1, and all of them quit because they were feeling everything was super laggy, hell, I even quit because I was tired of never being able to hit anyone (I'm a noob at this game, always been, always will be) and having people hit me from 10m away. We did make some unforgettable memories in Nave, and I am super stoked to make even more of these gaming memories in MO2, I just want it to succeed, just as we all want.

So let's hope for the best and expect the worst.

 

[barcode]

Edit:
If backpaddling is one of the major culprits why don´t we decrease the walking speed of walking backwards to 25%? We would need free look for kiting though.

backpedelling only makes it obvious becuase you are actively watching the range difference as well as moving in a straight line. its the moving in a straight line that gives the greatest distance between you and the enemy so if you could give a rear view camera yet sprint away at full speed, the distance would look larger since you can cover more ground in the same time.

-barcode

 

[Teknique]

I don't know many people who would want to pay a box price AND a month fee for shoddy combat. "Fair warning, our combat barely works right".

I think we need to stop giving SV such a hard time. These games are hard to make. Even harder to please Karen's. Look at LiF and Last Oasis, its not as if they were wild successes.

 

[Kavu]

I think we need to stop giving SV such a hard time. These games are hard to make. Even harder to please Karen's. Look at LiF and Last Oasis, its not as if they were wild successes.

LiF is a game based around "realism" over fun, which was doomed to be niche for that reason first and foremost. Last Oasis was made by former M&B Warband modders, so modders of a niche game making an even more niche game with no real ideas in mind aside from.. hey remember those weird art sculpture pieces that move? Let's have people uhh move around on those and kill each other over drinking water. Which doesn't really get the old hype train rolling for more than one station.

I think we're hard on SV because we want a new game in this genre to succeed, and they're the best chance we've got right now... but I agree, people are really mean to them especially on the discord, when we really shouldn't be. Though it seems like the especially cruel folks have been banned now. The key is being constructive.

*edit*
P.S.
Before someone complains, not to discredit the excellent and impressive work of modders, my point was more about the niche audience value.

 

[ElPerro]

I think we need to stop giving SV such a hard time. These games are hard to make. Even harder to please Karen's. Look at LiF and Last Oasis, its not as if they were wild successes.

They are making it way harder than it should be tho. In a low ping scenario MO combat can really be one of the best in any mmo and thats a huge feat coming from an indie studio, but they choose to go for a single server when unless they partner up with Elon and use Starlink, they will never get a lag free combat that will be accepted by the masses.

 

[Teknique]

They are making it way harder than it should be tho. In a low ping scenario MO combat can really be one of the best in any mmo and thats a huge feat coming from an indie studio, but they choose to go for a single server when unless they partner up with Elon and use Starlink, they will never get a lag free combat that will be accepted by the masses.

...said it a few thousand times though but ping isn't why its desyncy. Its because hits aren't server sided, the server has some checks now in mo2 which is why its better. To fix that range desync you're going to need to recreate the game entirely.

basically whats happening is the opponent is aiming insanely well. They may start their position looking backwards and moving away but do some crazy weapon drag and be aiming really well. Then it seems like they hit you from a really weird position.

 

[Teknique]

They are making it way harder than it should be tho. In a low ping scenario MO combat can really be one of the best in any mmo and thats a huge feat coming from an indie studio, but they choose to go for a single server when unless they partner up with Elon and use Starlink, they will never get a lag free combat that will be accepted by the masses.

LiF is a game based around "realism" over fun, which was doomed to be niche for that reason first and foremost. Last Oasis was made by former M&B Warband modders, so modders of a niche game making an even more niche game with no real ideas in mind aside from.. hey remember those weird art sculpture pieces that move? Let's have people uhh move around on those and kill each other over drinking water. Which doesn't really get the old hype train rolling for more than one station.

I think we're hard on SV because we want a new game in this genre to succeed, and they're the best chance we've got right now... but I agree, people are really mean to them especially on the discord, when we really shouldn't be. Though it seems like the especially cruel folks have been banned now. The key is being constructive.

*edit*
P.S.
Before someone complains, not to discredit the excellent and impressive work of modders, my point was more about the niche audience value.

Not actually related to this specific post by you, but you've mentioned I hit you from range a lot.

i'm 99% sure most range hits are just from your run of the mill MO 1 screen shake to land your hit like I do there, the person expects you to miss because the shot was a difficult flick/adjustment.

God knows what the 2nd clip looked like on their screen. I call that one the Master Yoda EEEEEEEEAHHH!!

 

[Kavu]

Not actually related to this specific post by you, but you've mentioned I hit you from range a lot.

i'm 99% sure most range hits are just from your run of the mill MO 1 screen shake to land your hit like I do there, the person expects you to miss because the shot was a difficult flick/adjustment.

Negative, you usually aren't even be spinning, just running forward weapon cocked and you swing at air, and then back away while still some distance away. In fights like these you can absolutely learn the distance throughout the fight and compensate for where they "Ought" to be, but.. like... you shouldn't have to? It is what it is though. Doesn't even always happen.

As someone who spins like an absolute beyblade when I fight, I know the difference, and this ain't it.
I wish I'd had OBS open during the fight it was happening throughout, but we seemed to stabilize after that.

 

[Kavu]

Here @Teknique I created a crude illustration.

So here's us before an attack attempt:



Here's you running forward and slashing and me not knowing the distance created by the latency:



Alternatively, here's me having learned the latency and being able to judge your "True" position, i.e. your position on YOUR screen.



Finally no matter which way it went, you then will do this, without ever having come in range in many cases:



...Which feels terrible because you literally never came anywhere I could strike you, and yet you could strike me. This doesn't usually happen, but when it does, it's the epitome of Feels Bad Man.

 

[Teknique]

Here @Teknique I created a crude illustration.

So here's us before an attack attempt:

View attachment 200

Here's you running forward and slashing and me not knowing the distance created by the latency:

View attachment 201

Alternatively, here's me having learned the latency and being able to judge your "True" position, i.e. your position on YOUR screen.

View attachment 202

Finally no matter which way it went, you then will do this, without ever having come in range in many cases:

View attachment 203

...Which feels terrible because you literally never came anywhere I could strike you, and yet you could strike me. This doesn't usually happen, but when it does, it's the epitome of Feels Bad Man.

I hear ya, think it happens to everyone. I guess what i'm saying is I don't think its fixable, and its not related to latency or EU server.

Thanks for using imagery I can understand.

 

[Kavu]

Thanks for using imagery I can understand.

Any time, king.
Yeah idk if anything can be done about it, aside from us NA boys being on an NA server. So we'll just have to learn to poke and prod until we know the distance of the person we're fighting, and THEN play the game. Nothing that other games haven't already taught us.

 

[Teknique]

Negative, you usually aren't even be spinning, just running forward weapon cocked and you swing at air, and then back away while still some distance away. In fights like these you can absolutely learn the distance throughout the fight and compensate for where they "Ought" to be, but.. like... you shouldn't have to? It is what it is though. Doesn't even always happen.

As someone who spins like an absolute beyblade when I fight, I know the difference, and this ain't it.
I wish I'd had OBS open during the fight it was happening throughout, but we seemed to stabilize after that.

The first part i'm referring to wasn't a spin, When I release my swing i'm looking at the tent thats directly infront of me, and then I swoop down all the way to the bottom right of me very quickly to land the shot.

 

[Rhias]

The only thing all that complaining archives, is that Henrik is thinking about slowing down movement. And I actually liked about MO2 that movement is faster than MO1... Especially since the map is so huge.
I would prefer seeing slight desync before slowing down movement. IMHO.

 

[Kavu]

The only thing all that complaining archives, is that Henrik is thinking about slowing down movement. And I actually liked about MO2 that movement is faster than MO1... Especially since the map is so huge.
I would prefer seeing slight desync before slowing down movement. IMHO.

I'd like to know how fast Veelas are going to be in comparison to these kallards before I make any judgements.

 

[Eldrath]

Any time, king.
Yeah idk if anything can be done about it, aside from us NA boys being on an NA server. So we'll just have to learn to poke and prod until we know the distance of the person we're fighting, and THEN play the game. Nothing that other games haven't already taught us.

Yes, and the focus on whining about latency actually detracts from the real problem. Yesterday I recorded a fight against another person in sweden and he hit me from a good distance away.

I mean I don´t think prediction can catch up with a last milisecond super fast twitch that gets your weapon mash in contact.

Anyway it´s for SV to figure out how much they can do about it.

 

[Saimo]

Aim for more players than Mortal Online 1 had.

This way they can create 2 Servers. Europe and Merica.

Expect a ping around 100ms and try to improve it that way.