Combat is boring, a note to Henrik.

[Eldrath]

I don´t think giving people special access to the developers will help SV in the long run. People like @Valoran and @Rolufe speaking for the developers will hurt their public imagine, since both have clearly tainted views on a number of issues.

If they haven´t had any special access that is fine, but then they should probably watch how they phrase themselves in public.

After scanning this discussion I think everyone would agree that two things happenend:
1. The playing field was evened out when it comes to ping
2. The skill ceiling has been lowered. (Because lowering the speed always does that in a real time combat game)

I have made a thread targeting this specific problem and there were good suggestions being posted. Sadly I don´t think SV has recognized the second part. I think it´s time for them to do that and propose solutions.

This circular discussing of things and name calling is completely unproductive.

 

[Grasthard]

If you read you find many posts where I suggest changes other than speed but it will make the game harder so noone wants that cause they want it easy.
Lower swing arcs, lower block arcs, lower parry timer, decreasing the armor values and decrease how good the counter is. Been suggesting that since February.
All those changes dont touch speed and will increase the skill ceiling by quite a bit if the changes are substantial compared to now.

i made similar suggestions in another thread as well *shameless plug*
I think some of these changes would help crafting variety as well

a quick fix to both combat and weaponcrafting

in other threads, I mentioned I wouldn't comment much on combat system, being a noob and playing with very high ping (>250ms). However, by testing more the combat, there are some issues which I feel are quite relevant, if even a noob like me can pick those up. the 2 main issues I have with the...

mortalonline2.com

 

[StreamerLord]

Maybe the slow swinging combat is partially do to the in coming PVE remember how desynced and awful it was.

 

[Teknique]

You dont balance your game around bad players, you balance combat around the good fighter, crafting around good crafters, etc.
Just because you can flawless noobs and players who cant block dont mean the game is about skill.


How do you explain that many of MOs best players where NAs ? Beating most EUs with ease, but ofc that dont matter when its a example against your arguement.
Whats the excuse now that all EUs are NAs ? I am effectively playing with 160+ ping now, whats the excuse when the game says the opposite of you ?


Hmm i know of atleast 1 guild of 30 players who disagreed with you while they was still playing MO. But ofc that dont matter since it proves you are wrong...


Easier to be a forum warrior and do the battle there instead of needing to train up in game and prove it through action. The common denominator is that they want things easy and not hard. They want things for free and not have to work for it.


If you read you find many posts where I suggest changes other than speed but it will make the game harder so noone wants that cause they want it easy.
Lower swing arcs, lower block arcs, lower parry timer, decreasing the armor values and decrease how good the counter is. Been suggesting that since February.
All those changes dont touch speed and will increase the skill ceiling by quite a bit if the changes are substantial compared to now.

Yea you cant unify when the arguements are opposite of each others, one crowd wants harder combat and the other wants easy combat.
Sadly only 1 crowd is inline with MOs original vision which has continually been shit on since 2009.

Lies, I am told that NAs cant win against any EUs and thats the reason for dumbing the game down. Thats just how this works, sorry Teknique but you will never be able to beat EUs in the game. Truth hurts I know.
Hopefully more wakes up and realized how much lies is associated with brown nosers influencing the game negatively.

You can still beat bots with good ping, I did it all the time.

Patwins would tell you right now that ping was fucking bullshit.

I said if skill was equal.

Nobody beat most eus with ease, more like with extreme difficulty

 

[ThaBadMan]

Maybe the slow swinging combat is partially do to the in coming PVE remember how desynced and awful it was.

I dont really see how PvE is going to affect PvP combat at all. That is unless they plan on making PvE a normal used tactic in MO2 like in MO. But thats kinda breaking the whole player based game they want.
Thanks for reminding me that with pets in combat is gonna be alot better now than they where in early MO due to how slow things are now. DPS is so much worse now and since you cant maneuver in combat pets gonna be on your ass through the entire fight now.

You can still beat bots with good ping, I did it all the time.

Patwins would tell you right now that ping was fucking bullshit.

I said if skill was equal.

Nobody beat most eus with ease, more like with extreme difficulty

Nononono.
If you listen to the experts like SV, Valoran and Snipes you cant beat ping with skill, its impossible. And you know the Global Market agrees and is intent on keeping things this way.
They have lots of money hanging on this!

If skill was equal you still cant reach the boots of a EU, thats from the experts mouth itself.
No matter how much proof you provide, no matter how much this is shown otherwise. That is how things are and will forever be, the Global Market will make sure it does!

Yes thats the correct statement. Nobody can or will beat EUs no matter what. EUs can be afk and still beat you, I understand how frustrating it is but thats how it is. Learn to live with it...

 

[Teknique]

I dont really see how PvE is going to affect PvP combat at all. That is unless they plan on making PvE a normal used tactic in MO2 like in MO. But thats kinda breaking the whole player based game they want.
Thanks for reminding me that with pets in combat is gonna be alot better now than they where in early MO due to how slow things are now. DPS is so much worse now and since you cant maneuver in combat pets gonna be on your ass through the entire fight now.

Nononono.
If you listen to the experts like SV, Valoran and Snipes you cant beat ping with skill, its impossible. And you know the Global Market agrees and is intent on keeping things this way.
They have lots of money hanging on this!

If skill was equal you still cant reach the boots of a EU, thats from the experts mouth itself.
No matter how much proof you provide, no matter how much this is shown otherwise. That is how things are and will forever be, the Global Market will make sure it does!

Yes thats the correct statement. Nobody can or will beat EUs no matter what. EUs can be afk and still beat you, I understand how frustrating it is but thats how it is. Learn to live with it...

It’s cool man, just ask some of those NAs you’re saying didn’t struggle with ping what they thought about it and you’ll find it doesn’t fit your narrative.

Only telling you this so you can argue more constructively. Trying this whole ping was never an issue thing just looks ridiculous.

 

[ThaBadMan]

It’s cool man, just ask some of those NAs you’re saying didn’t struggle with ping what they thought about it and you’ll find it doesn’t fit your narrative.

Only telling you this so you can argue more constructively. Trying this whole ping was never an issue thing just looks ridiculous.

Why ask NAs ? Everyone knows you cant beat ping. Experts say so and the Global Market agrees. Thats all we need to know, not what actually happens.

Envy, AQ, Myrm, Void. All had many NA players who where better than most EUs. But thats false since no NA can beat EU ping.

Do you honestly think I liked having great ping in MO ?
Low ping in such games is like playing in the dark when you are the only one illuminated.

Oh and no need to, I have spoken to many of them for hours about the combat system and how to make it more skill based. Lets just say competitive NA players, who dont blame their losses on ping or other bad excuses, want the game to be harder and faster than MO ever was. I played MO every day for years with primarily NA players, who where just as hooked as me. We where happy such a game finally was a reality. Ping, bugs, memory leaks, fps drops and all the other issues along with the rampant cheating, hacking and duping was a small inconvenience compared to actually having such a game.
Before the dark times, before the age of slow easymode that ruined it...

 

[Morpheus]

Guys, you're starting to push this thread completely off topic.

II(b). Do not insult anyone, or speak offensively. While Mortal Online 2 can be competitive, any belligerent speech is not permitted. A certain level of trash-talk is allowed, but it needs to remain within reason.
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Please, take a breath before you continue posting. You're starting to just repeat yourselves and rant here, and that does not make for a very inviting place for most of our members that may want to join in. Remember, this is a new and exciting game, with new members, and they do not want to see the same toxicity that may or may not have been permitted years ago. We're all mature people here, so lets show them that. This is a written warning for all past and future posts on this thread, and moderation will start on ALL future infractions. I'm leaving this thread as it stands for now, as to not disrupt the flow outside of one truly off topic post.

Continue on, and remember the Forum Rules found here.

 

[Solairerection]

In the end it will come down to what will drive away the most players, slow combat or ocassionally desynced combat.

If Starvault think they can find a balanced and fun combat between melee, archery, magic, combat-pets and mounted combat with a slow and controlled speed then it's up to them to try.

I personally don't think they will succeed, and that we will soon enough find ourselves in MO1's footsteps, where the tedium of a sandbox game will be a constant reminder with no fun and engaging combat to take off the edge, with a population slowly dwindling and the only time people log-in en masse is when a keep needs defending.

 

[Rorry]

It did work for MO1 though.

 

[Bloodterst]

I don't understand the whole "1v1 is not the game blabla group fights"
Yes the main combat is bigger group fights, but are you really saying that it will always be a 20v20 10v10 etc?
Did you guys not play mo1?
If you did, were you only semiafk in discord all day til someone screamed groupfight?
The smallscale random fighting is the bread and butter of this game and what fills in the time between the groupfights.

I can see major grandpa moments even in just a 2v2..

Imagine player A&B farming some random trash mob..
player X&Y rolls up for a fight.

They use viknuss master tactics of UGHUGHUGHUH be more than 1 hehe smartypants on player A

player B takes of immediately when he gets the chance.
x&y could split to 1v1 them both but then turtlemode comes in again (see)

Cgz player B got away with all the loot just cuz of grandpa.

(in this example player A&B don't want to take the fight)

 

[Solairerection]

What do you think the combat is built on? That server/tech/code/game/memory. You're not a very analytical guy, I can tell. You just want what you want, but that's not how this works. You get what the devs give you, and the gives can only give what they can actually accomplish with the tech and man power they have. If you have a faulty combat where players are experiencing desync in a 1v1, 5v5, 50v50 or any number of player scenario in a game with full loot pvp and asset destruction that's no guano friend. No one wants to play a game where the game itself is sabotaging you due to it's inadequacies.

I'm sure the devs will add additional things to combat, but I'm also equally sure you're still complain because the game isn't "ludicrous speed".

You are going to experience desync whenever the server has a hiccup, which could happen anytime there is a heavy load, by anything really. By your logic this is unacceptable, so might aswell switch to turn-based combat. This will solve any desync as you need to wait for other player's turn and vice versa.

 

[Bloodterst]

Here's what i gathered from some ppl i have played with before
that tested the alpha:

Spoiler

Discord post:
Me: Combat feels a bit slow
American 1: haha u just mad cuz now u aint EUping master hehe
1h later
American 1: now i get what blood was saying.. combat is slow..
American 2: yeah the combat feels a bit too slow

DM's on discord
Frenchguy: I feel like Aralis in mo1.

German: i wont play cuz i can't rebind keys and i don't use a WASD keyboard

Swede: I didn't want to recommend it to you cuz i don't like the combat (this one hurt the most cuz the guy seemed really hyped before)

This sucks and is the main reason i even bothered to post here in the first place.

 

[Hooves]

Envy, AQ, Myrm, Void. All had many NA players who where better than most EUs. But thats false since no NA can beat EU ping.

Yes, this was the case. Usually this was because they understood the advantages and disadvantages of their ping.

1. Faster gameplay gives high-ping players a fair chance at victory, if they're aggressive. They can evade and dodge attacks due to movement tracking. They can also maneuver around enemy blocks as well, since foes have a slightly harder time tracking them.
2. Slower gameplay that devolves into a block/parry battle will favor the lower ping player, all else being equal. Of course there were NA players who were excellent at blocking and parrying, but this is because they had superior reaction time and/or game knowledge.

If you slow down the game, you punish players who anticipate attacks and dodge well, which removes a whole combat skillset from the game and certainly lowers the skill ceiling. This saddens me.

 

[Rorry]

No, if it worked MO1 would be a thriving game, and not a shambling corpse.

It was not the combat that killed the game.

 

[Hooves]

It was not the combat that killed the game.

Bad combat will ruin a game for people who play it for its combat. I know I'm coming from a biased perspective, but I know many combat-oriented players who quit the game during the long period of time when mounteds could scale mountains and hit you for 200 dmg without the threat of being dismounted. Many of those players never returned.

Obviously this is just one of the many critical issues with MO1:

• Unbalanced loot tables that made many dungeons + PvE content irrelevant and pointless
• Siege mechanics that were pure tedium for attackers and defenders
• Terrain issues
• Walling off of content
• TC guards that get stuck inside of buildings
• This list could go on for a while...

Combat issues are just one little droplet of poison that can kill the game for one slice of the MO niche. People think of MO as a game built for one small niche, but the truth is more complex than that.

 

[Buffallo]

I played Mortal 1, I ran a guild that spent all day getting into trouble, fighting all the time. I was looking forward to returning to the adrenaline filled world of Nave.... and then I logged in.

What in the hell has happened to the combat? It's slow, everything has such a long windup you'd have to be 12 beers in to miss your parry.

Did the community ask for this? I know our guys (and likely a cross section of the main demographic this game will aim to capture) are coming from games like Mordhau where combat is fast paced and complex. Where you can feign an action to fake out your opponent, you can be tactical with what you do because it doesn't take 10 seconds to swing once.

This combat just feels like baby mode and I would like to assume that most of you here don't need training diapers, do you? People have better internet on average then they did during mortal 1 and the combat was faster back then so why are things going backwards?

To Henrik: for your game to make money it needs to target the demographic that is most likely to play it, that demographic plays games like Mordhau and Last Oasis. Look to Mordhau as your main modern-ish example, steal what works, change what doesn't but whatever you do, do NOT leave it in the snooze fest state it is in. If you need help getting there I am sure I can find you some Myrmidons that would be willing to help you out with constructive feedback like we did for you in Mortal 1. Just DM me or Meralious. We want you to succeed.

-Javelin
Founder of Myrmidon

-edited to correct Henrik's name spelling.

you stated you came from mo1 and use that to credit your post which I'm onboard with. The statement to steal what works from Mordhau is unfortunately something I think is redundant a bit. I agree with the support for your view but think stealing what works from Mordhau would be best if it were limited to easy variables that Mordhau had such as polish, relevant graphic system as well as groundswell.

 

[boba]

you stated you came from mo1 and use that to credit your post which I'm onboard with. The statement to steal what works from Mordhau is unfortunately something I think is redundant a bit. I agree with the support for your view but think stealing what works from Mordhau would be best if it were limited to easy variables that Mordhau had such as polish, relevant graphic system as well as groundswell.

Agreed mordhau sucks anyway and has not been polished since it's release date.

 

[Theodosius]

Combat feels absolutely awful

 

[Buffallo]

Combat feels absolutely awful

A lada looks like a mazarati if you've never seen a car before