Combat is boring, a note to Henrik.
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Its interesting to see the argument that combat shouldn’t be made for skilled players. Instead of aspiring to get better and learn from skilled players and participate in a system that would reward skillful play and overcome challenges as you would grow as a player you are totally content in fact prefer a system that equates to no one can kill each other unless you overwhelm with numbers. You are a coward, you have a cowards mentality and anyone that agrees with this sort of baby hand holding garbage system should play minecraft cause by the sound if it thats what you want this game to be.
Why bother challenging yourself when you can be spoon fed while mommy tells you what a big strong knight you are.
Heres my problem. Starvault needs to stop calling this a hardcore mmo. If they are going to cater to babies then just go all in and turn off full loot. Its clear to me the people arguing for a slow combat experience don’t have the emotional capacity to deal with a real hardcore experience. So if thats who you’re going to listen to then just get it over with and go full diaper on this project.
Or if your not going to do that then start listening to the people who are hardcore and start ignoring the carebears. Pick a lane and stop trying to appease both. If you keep trying to do two things mediocre you will end up with another shit sandwhich. Do one thing awesome whichever it is just choose.
Why bother challenging yourself when you can be spoon fed while mommy tells you what a big strong knight you are.
Heres my problem. Starvault needs to stop calling this a hardcore mmo. If they are going to cater to babies then just go all in and turn off full loot. Its clear to me the people arguing for a slow combat experience don’t have the emotional capacity to deal with a real hardcore experience. So if thats who you’re going to listen to then just get it over with and go full diaper on this project.
Or if your not going to do that then start listening to the people who are hardcore and start ignoring the carebears. Pick a lane and stop trying to appease both. If you keep trying to do two things mediocre you will end up with another shit sandwhich. Do one thing awesome whichever it is just choose.
Well obviously due to tech limitations any speed above the current one is not acceptable for a game meant to be accessible to a global market.
So sadly when mounts and mounted combat arrives it will be at 420 speed, same as humanoids.
But really speed wont be a problem once mounts come into the game just like in MO mount speed will probably be light speed because logic and speed for players will be snail pace since the game cant handle more but only on players not mounts cause thats logical.
Going to be interesting to see how mounted combat works. I feel like we should be testing that already to tell you the truth.
Oof, relax there bud. Making combat FOR skilled players, and making combat that requires "skill" is really two things. I doubt henrik and fam are making combat for a small subset of players, they're targeting a bulk audience. Also assuming they could implement combat with a infinite high skill cap is probably unrealistic. It's like going to burger king and expecting an $50 dollar angus top sirloin steak for the price of a $10 cheese burger. They can't do it. Not on a technical level, and not on a financial level. I mean they're using store bought assets for fucks sake, that should tell you a little about what to expect quality wise from the game.
Is MO2 combat "skill less"? No, it's just different than you were expecting. The better player will still win the majority of the time.
I'm fine either way they go, long as they can keep the game, and specifically combat fair and playable across a multitude of regions (assuming they stick with the 1 server for both region models). Hell, if they add the NA continent maybe they can loosen up combat, who knows.
But if you're really chaffed about it, you should go out of your way to private message henrik and demand they add a NA server, since a lot of the decisions being made around combat are based on his vision. Heard here he likes talking about stuff like that.
Oof, relax there bud. Making combat FOR skilled players, and making combat that requires "skill" is really two things. I doubt henrik and fam are making combat for a small subset of players, they're targeting a bulk audience. Also assuming they could implement combat with a infinite high skill cap is probably unrealistic. It's like going to burger king and expecting an $50 dollar angus top sirloin steak for the price of a $10 cheese burger. They can't do it. Not on a technical level, and not on a financial level. I mean they're using store bought assets for fucks sake, that should tell you a little about what to expect quality wise from the game.
Is MO2 combat "skill less"? No, it's just different than you were expecting. The better player will still win the majority of the time.
I'm fine either way they go, long as they can keep the game, and specifically combat fair and playable across a multitude of regions (assuming they stick with the 1 server for both region models). Hell, if they add the NA continent maybe they can loosen up combat, who knows.
But if you're really chaffed about it, you should go out of your way to private message henrik and demand they add a NA server, since a lot of the decisions being made around combat are based on his vision. Heard here he likes talking about stuff like that.
Actually the best example you could use there.
If they promote a $50 dollar angus top sirloin steak for the price of a $10 cheese burger, then they kinda have to even if its not doable on a technical or financial level.
Basically if SV is gonna sell out on skill based combat where skill is the deciding factor like they have advertised and sold the games as then they need to fix that advertising.
They cant sell a product and once its sold they change it to the opposite of what the buyers wanted.
Thats my issue with them starting out with a fast paced system and months later when they have more copies sold than if they started with slower combat they change it from what players bought and expected to get.
That's just what happens in development. If this was any other developer we probably wouldn't of even seen combat in a "fast" phase. We're getting to see how the sausage is made, and some times the changes are wild. Shit, this exact scenario played out in NW except on an even larger scale where the developers changed the entire scope of the game, the original scope of which was supposed to be a sandbox open world survival game with territorial conquest.
I used the reverse of your analogy because we should know better now when it comes to SV. Maybe if this was MO1 your anaology would've rung true, but we've seen what they're capable of with the team they have so we should temper our expectations. MO2 is definitely a $10 cheese burger trying to be a $50 dollar angus top sirloin steak, but it's just not and will never be. Unless of course henrik can find an angel investor and get a huge infusion of cash which allows him to hire another 50 developers.
We should expect that after 10 years of doing this they should have good enough knowledge to start of pretty much in the same ballpark of where it ends.
Learn from mistakes and all that, MO went through the exact same process afterall alienating thousands of pre order buyers.
I just joined MO2, played MO1 for a small amount at the start, but I have to say that it is pretty damn slow. I really don't have this kind of time the game is asking from me, I'd say that most people who would play this game would have kids, not have a lot of time. So it would make sense to make it faster to attract your kind of gamer. Plus there is a stark contrast between the time it takes to run out the gates, kill something and run back in and other games.
Take UO for example, you could be in minoc, run from the bank south, in 30 seconds your outside killing stuff, and in another 1 minute you are back inside the bank with a hide and a piece of meat. That's fine, in this game, it takes 15 minutes to run from the bank to the nearest deer, another 5 min to kill it and another 20 min to run back to the bank.
Now for testing purposes, I managed to trap a springbok in a small crack and kill it with my sword, got the goods and rank back to bank. It was fine, no bugs or glitches. But that was the same amount of time it takes to play 1 map on PUBG, 1 full length game of DOTA, you get the drift.
Take UO for example, you could be in minoc, run from the bank south, in 30 seconds your outside killing stuff, and in another 1 minute you are back inside the bank with a hide and a piece of meat. That's fine, in this game, it takes 15 minutes to run from the bank to the nearest deer, another 5 min to kill it and another 20 min to run back to the bank.
Now for testing purposes, I managed to trap a springbok in a small crack and kill it with my sword, got the goods and rank back to bank. It was fine, no bugs or glitches. But that was the same amount of time it takes to play 1 map on PUBG, 1 full length game of DOTA, you get the drift.
I'm not sure why everyone complaining in here is simply ignoring the responses given to them, but i'll try one more time.
Slowing down the combat speed was not done to appease a wider audience of varying skill levels, it was done in order to make the game literally functional to a global market.
As soon as you speed up the combat you cut down the amount of people who are actually able to play the game competitively due to them literally not being able to block fast attacks due to latency differences.
A couple of people in here are confusing these two things and I think that's the main issue here.
There are still some improvements that can be made to speed certain things up again, but specifically the pre-release swing delay won't change, and the move speed isn't likely to change either, as any increase to speed will add more desync and issues to movement. It's not like 425 sprint speed is the perfect speed balance between satisfying movement and mitigating desync, but it's a good balance at the moment.
In order to completely remove the problems with movement we would have to be slowed down much more than we are at the moment, and obviously that isn't acceptable for enjoyable game play.
As an ending note, I would highly advise those who wish to be actually heard and have their opinions and suggestions considered, to not act like children and throw insults left and right to everyone that is trying to talk to them, as well as to the people they're trying to talk to.
Star vault barely reads these long forum posts as is, they simply don't have the time. Do you really think they're going to give your opinions any actual consideration when you form them as insults?
Slowing down the combat speed was not done to appease a wider audience of varying skill levels, it was done in order to make the game literally functional to a global market.
As soon as you speed up the combat you cut down the amount of people who are actually able to play the game competitively due to them literally not being able to block fast attacks due to latency differences.
A couple of people in here are confusing these two things and I think that's the main issue here.
There are still some improvements that can be made to speed certain things up again, but specifically the pre-release swing delay won't change, and the move speed isn't likely to change either, as any increase to speed will add more desync and issues to movement. It's not like 425 sprint speed is the perfect speed balance between satisfying movement and mitigating desync, but it's a good balance at the moment.
In order to completely remove the problems with movement we would have to be slowed down much more than we are at the moment, and obviously that isn't acceptable for enjoyable game play.
As an ending note, I would highly advise those who wish to be actually heard and have their opinions and suggestions considered, to not act like children and throw insults left and right to everyone that is trying to talk to them, as well as to the people they're trying to talk to.
Star vault barely reads these long forum posts as is, they simply don't have the time. Do you really think they're going to give your opinions any actual consideration when you form them as insults?
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No I think we get it we just dont buy it or believe it.
Things to prove it is in MO the excuse was prediction to speed down combat but months later speed had fuck all to do with prediction when mount speed was increased from slow to lightspeed, very good reason or should I say excuse to use...
In MO2 its ping and movement thats the excuse even though that is miles ahead of MO which was good enough for a global market.
In MO the highest population was when combat was at its best and fastest and the server at its worst and issues and bugs running rampant, once the game got stable and combat slowed down to shit, oh shit the population never got high again.
In MO2 there was least complaining in the beginning after the first patch, except by a few who blamed ping.
You say here in the same sentence that its not to attract a larger audience but to have it work better for a global audience ? I feel that is the same thing.
If they where not doing these changes to broaden the audience they simply wouldnt do it to rather appease their current supporters instead.
Yes harder combat is for a smaller audience than easy combat no doubt, thats because most humans dont want to work for things while a small percentage do.
Yes they sacrifice the vision of the game in the hope of attaining greater numbers of players.
If combat is further slowed down we will be doing backwards actions. We dont need Baby Online where the game revolves around crawling.
Constructive critisism dont work, I tried it for years only for the opposite to happen even how much proof I supplied with the suggestions. After years of negligence you change your way of getting heard.
I know brown nosing is a good way to get your way, but its looked down upon by any upstanding citizen.
Brown nosing is the reason MO died and the reason MO2 is going downhill. Same players influence both games in a negative way and make the game develop away from its vision.
I know some people enjoy ruining games simply to brag they did so. Its a problem when developers listen to the wrong crowd on the wrong changes.
Dont ask or listen to non PvPers about combat and dont listen to PvPers regarding PvE or trading, crafting, etc.
Learn from mistakes dont continue making them and think the result will be different. SV has a hard time learning from mistakes.
PS Yes I know SV dont read forums or have a personhired to do just that, I know their way is to gather yes men in their testing groups and have a circle jerk in there listening to their great advice on how to make the game worse, not their plan but what continues to happen.
Theres a reason people who criticise gets ban warnings and are told to shut up or else!
Well, Herius reads the forums but since he is responsible for most that went wrong with MO1 that is not helpful. I think this is just one lesson SV hasn´t learned in those 15 years.
You keep using MO1 like it's the shining example of properly working combat when we all know that isn't true for a vast number of people, especially since the ping disparity was even worse. The reality is that they truly didn't know what they were doing with MO.
Denying reality is no way to go. MO1 was trash, MO2 is henrik's attempt to learn from MO1 mistakes and fix them. No one ever said that you'll like the fixes.
Players on foot are different than players on mounts. Mounts have inertia and a strong turning speed cap, making their movement highly predictable allowing them to move faster without causing visual issues.
People on foot can turn on a dime and switch directions rapidly while spinning their camera around, making their movement not very predictable at all, and thus a slower movement is required to maintain visual positional integrity.
The state of the game before the ping normalization was added and move speed was reduced was not at all an acceptable level of quality for a global market. You may have a lower standard of quality than SV, as having massive desync issues and huge advantages given to low ping players is a recipe for being labelled an unfair buggy mess, much like MO1 was.
The highest population in MO1 was during steam release, and it dwindled down from there to where we are now.
The first patch in MO2 was bugged and our dexterity was not giving the appropriate speed bonuses, so they fixed the bug. They did not increase player speed due to feedback, they simply made it what it was intended to be in the first place.
Appealing to a global audience by way of reducing the skill ceiling making the game more accessible to less skilled players is not synonymous with making specific adjustments to the combat speeds and introducing a ping normalization system that relies on those speed adjustments. This was done to make the game actually function for people with medium and higher ping, instead of heavily favouring low ping players while high ping players simply could not physically block attacks above a certain speed.
Now that the game is mechanically as fair as it can be across the ping spectrum, we can fine tune the things that can be fine tuned.
It has nothing to do with being hardcore, or a willingness to overcome a challenge. It's about being on an actually fair playing field from the beginning.
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Hey man its not easymode, now everyone is just at the same playing field. The changes was needed for the global market.
I think I am the last person you will find doing that, I am the thorn in Henriks side. I hold him at his word, the original vision of MO.
I bring MOs failure as a lesson of the potential that game had before it was tainted and ruined. The excellent fun and engaging gameplay it used to have so many years ago.
Fighting the hordes of bugs, tech limitations, bad fps, memory leaks from another world and all the other issues we (CBT that bought in based on a trailer and a powerpoint presentation) saw the gem it could become.
The first FPS open world full loot Sandbox MMORPG with fast paced real time combat where player skill truly mattered above all else. Where you decide and choose your path, where you are not forced into anything to do anything in a certain way but choose and overcome through skill. A player driven world with no artificial safe zones and living breathing world.
So much was sacrificed in MO, so many promises broken. So much disappointment, how many of those 20k pre orders do I see around here still ? Very very few, and theres a very good reason for it almost 20k very good reasons.
I heard that such a game was impossible to make from every big company, so many years until a tiny tiny tiny Swedish company actually have the balls to try it and guess what, they actually did it.
Dont come here and tell me to believe we have gone back in time to no longer be able to have such a game.
I know we cant let the entire world play perfectly in 1 server, never gonna happen in our lifetime.
Its just a shame some few egos is able to ruin that chance twice for such a large audience who think ping is a tiny inconvenience considering getting the game we wanted for so long. Not once TWICE.
Enough of this now, keep using your overused ancient excuse that died over 10 years ago. The few is not enough imo to ruin something for the many. Simple as that!
Yup, saw that in MO.
You dont come off very believable by typing this, I played mounted for years in MO, dont even try to make me believe mounteds was in any way limited in movement compared to a player on foot. Mounts could stop in a sec, go 0 to full in maybe 2 sec, could turn almost as fast as a player all while dishing out dmg like no footy ever could wish for.
Mounts and mounted play was broken to its core for the majority of MOs lifetime.
From release mounts where fine for roughly a year not even that. Once bulls and molvas arrived it was severly OP. 2 years in and it was a space ship with shields.
MO2 never had any massive desync issues, MO did. But so long things are slow and parry whory low pingers will remain king I know, only fix to fight ping is lowest possible reaction times but due to global market push against SV we know that wont happen. Skill is another sacrifice we know SV gladly rush to take, less whiny sore losers that way.
Yeah I hear some people claim so, but having played the entire MO life from birth to soon death steam release was far from the most active I saw the game. Then again they had things in place to stop more than 2k players from entering, luckily I was subscribed and me and my 5 accounts had priority to enter.
Like TnA siege which is the biggest battle in MO history during prime time during the most active era of the game. But hey bugs, ping and a broken game dont attract a large enough audience right ? and keep them playing for some years, no that never happened...
Yes dumbing down a game is the most used and effective way to increase sales, no wonder SV jumps on the bandwagon after so many years.
Real sad to see I agree. And simply to cather to less skilled individuals who cant overcome their ping by learning the game...
Yes so fair that ping means nothing right, like every regional multiplayer game. What is ping ?
No human is on the same playing field, not irl and not on the internet. Being hardcore would mean MO and MO2 was hardcore, sadly the hard got soft and are now in need of someone to fix the problem. But ofc your right and UK ping has no advantage anymore, its great ping dont matter anymore, the global market will reward you for sure. Their agenda finally complete, ping no thing let the New World Order rise! HUZZAH!!!
That "NA issues" video is just learn2play issues... The whole "he can hit me from a distance where it looks like he won't hit" works both ways ffs xD
As a player with "good" ping it happens to me constantly and if u wanna avoid such a hit u either have to step and pray or just parry as if the hit was close enough.. same in mo1 and mo2 tbh, tho stepping away works better in mo2.
Literally the way aussies win in hit trades in mo1, by hitting u from 20meters away.
As a player with "good" ping it happens to me constantly and if u wanna avoid such a hit u either have to step and pray or just parry as if the hit was close enough.. same in mo1 and mo2 tbh, tho stepping away works better in mo2.
Literally the way aussies win in hit trades in mo1, by hitting u from 20meters away.
Very true. Once you learn the combat ping matters very little.
I was a below 20 pinger in MO when server was in Sweden, I played with the best players in the game and most of them where NA.
I played with and against Destroyer and his Aussie crew Harlequin who where a medium guild who where above average for sure in terms of skill.
Players who are limited by their ping and use it as a excuse is simply bad players who cant adapt.
Ofc fast paced combat is needed to overcome ping, but thats not news, we all should know that in 2020 tbh.
Australian here, Can say i prefer the Synchronization of MO2 instead of the cancer 1style of play that we australians had to adapt to in MO1 of being nothing but aggressive and exchanging hits.
I say for you people arguing, Learn to adapt to the MO2 mechanics like we had to adapt to MO1, AKA git gud.
You can still pull the maneuvers from MO1 btw.
I say for you people arguing, Learn to adapt to the MO2 mechanics like we had to adapt to MO1, AKA git gud.
You can still pull the maneuvers from MO1 btw.
What is the purpose of this video? You are just trading hits
Try fighting a turtle- Status