The new guys are figuring it out, just a matter of time. New player Perspective

[[CTX] Contractor]

I agree and the fact that they are trolling that it's not the best and most OP thing in the game currently while everything gets a nerf is just dishonest and shameful, i dont want their gameplay to change, by all means let them keep their baseline, but make everything else compliment the class instead of nerfing everything around it, so others can have fun engaging gameplay loops

A big point you're missing is mages will continue to get additions to their class through new magic schools.

Players with foot fighters get new materials (?) and weapon types. Maybe we'll see things like overhead strike, dual strike, etc. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[AssassinOTL]

Mages don't bottle neck dps with stamina footies do DERP. Quite reaching cause you're bad.

Yeah because Mages dont bottleck on Mana... that restricts them to the lightest armor in the game.... and regens 10x slower than Stam

 

[Belegar]

The facts are you took a random anecdote with no context and extrapolated it to be relevant to everything.
Mages aren’t bad in pvp. They’re bad in pve.

also do you play mmos? Support roles suck at duels.

do you lose a duel on a holy paladin 1v1 in wow and conclude the balance is off?
Mo mage gets to play dps and support you can 1v1 but it’s just not intended. That’s the actual balance you’re supposed to play support

Where does this idea come from that mages are dedicated healers?? You see, this already proves that mages are seen as not useful at DPS and should just stick to healing.

You honestly think this is what SV envisions with a class called "mages"? They have 5 spells that do damage, but we should actually just ignore that and heal.

I think we should all agree to wait for the other magic schools. Necromancy alone opened up the ability to be in melee as a mage (somewhat) with death hand. Now imagine all the other schools that will hopefully be added. Elementalism added an air push ability that launched players backwards (sometimes off cliffs for insta kills) so as it currently stands and has stood for years just ecumenical spells are not enough to make a mage scary to deal with.

I agree with 90% with what you say, except that mages aren't good DPS unless you melee with Necromancy. That is lame, imo. A mages should be casting lightning and fireballs at a distance, not run at FFs with their hands of death.

 

[[CTX] Contractor]

Where does this idea come from that mages are dedicated healers?? You see, this already proves that mages are seen as not useful at DPS and should just stick to healing.

You honestly think this is what SV envisions with a class called "mages"? They have 5 spells that do damage, but we should actually just ignore that and heal.



I agree with 90% with what you say, except that mages aren't good DPS unless you melee with Necromancy. That is lame, imo. A mages should be casting lightning and fireballs at a distance, not run at FFs with their hands of death.

A big point you're missing is mages will continue to get additions to their class through new magic schools.

Players with foot fighters get new materials (?) and weapon types. Maybe we'll see things like overhead strike, dual strike, etc. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

Read this reply I gave to someone else.

Thank you.

 

[For Sure]

Sometimes I can't tell if people on forums are trolling or stupid. Please, stop talking balance if your brain can't parry 4 directions.

 

[Teknique]

Where does this idea come from that mages are dedicated healers?? You see, this already proves that mages are seen as not useful at DPS and should just stick to healing.

You honestly think this is what SV envisions with a class called "mages"? They have 5 spells that do damage, but we should actually just ignore that and heal.



I agree with 90% with what you say, except that mages aren't good DPS unless you melee with Necromancy. That is lame, imo. A mages should be casting lightning and fireballs at a distance, not run at FFs with their hands of death.

The ecumenical magic schools contains damage ans healing and thus has to be balanced as if it has healing. Because it does.

 

[AssassinOTL]

The ecumenical magic schools contains damage ans healing and thus has to be balanced as if it has healing. Because it does.

Wouldn't it be unbalanced in one direction if you can cast 40-50 of one and only 3-4 of the other?

there are 2 heal spells and almost three times more damage spells.... and the bolster of the class is to be called "healer" or "support" lets get real about it..... you cant seriously thing that's good game design when you cant even cast 1 of each damage spell in one mana bar. that's like saying a FF should stam out before swinging in all 4 directions

 

[Teknique]

Wouldn't it be unbalanced in one direction if you can cast 40-50 of one and only 3-4 of the other?

there are 2 heal spells and almost three times more damage spells.... and the bolster of the class is to be called "healer" or "support" lets get real about it..... you cant seriously thing that's good game design when you cant even cast 1 of each damage spell in one mana bar. that's like saying a FF should stam out before swinging in all 4 directions

Mages have high alpha strike which is GOOD in pvp in pretty much all games.

I’m not sure why you’re saying bad sustained damage is a pvp issue when that’s a textbook pve issue.

hitting for 50+ 3-4 times unblockable through armor is good in pvp.

here’s an exampleat around the minute 20 mark where hitting hard through armor is very good.

I think you maybe need to look inwardly a bit at your gameplay

 

[[CTX] Contractor]

Wouldn't it be unbalanced in one direction if you can cast 40-50 of one and only 3-4 of the other?

there are 2 heal spells and almost three times more damage spells.... and the bolster of the class is to be called "healer" or "support" lets get real about it..... you cant seriously thing that's good game design when you cant even cast 1 of each damage spell in one mana bar. that's like saying a FF should stam out before swinging in all 4 directions

Because in a realistic situation you don't cast one of every spell.

This is why mages are interesting because they come equipped with different tools for different scenarios.

They're classified as support because they don't JUST heal or JUST do damage. They do both.

It would even be fair to call them a hybrid, but hybrid in MO terms is wielding two of the three types of combat. Melee, magic, ranged. (or even all three).

So, no. This comparison to a foot fighter isn't accurate and it needs to honestly stop.

Mages will gain more magic schools over time. In MO1 they had Spiritism, Necromancy, and Elementalism.

That allowed them to:

1.) Make pets that fought for you, and were extremely strong.
2.) Make mounts that you could ride.
3.) Change the weather.
4.) Trap people inside of physical objects.
5.) Cast AoE spells that surpassed Earthquake in radius.
6.) Knock players back, and sometimes off of edges / cliffs.
7.) Breathing underwater.
8.) Create temporary pets.
9.) Blind people.
10.) Drag / teleport loot bags.
11.) Reduce stamina regen.

I could go on.

 

[AssassinOTL]

Mages have high alpha strike which is GOOD in pvp in pretty much all games.

I’m not sure why you’re saying bad sustained damage is a pvp issue when that’s a textbook pve issue.

hitting for 50+ 3-4 times unblockable through armor is good in pvp.

here’s an exampleat around the minute 20 mark where hitting hard through armor is very good.

I think you maybe need to look inwardly a bit at your gameplay

it's nothing with gameplay, that might be the case in 1v1 PvP but we're talking PVP fights where they can last for a while one of my longest fights were pushing an hour without a death it's clear the class struggles with sustain, and saying otherwise isnt honest, 2 minutes have never really been the benchmark of big fights

 

[AssassinOTL]

Because in a realistic situation you don't cast one of every spell.

This is why mages are interesting because they come equipped with different tools for different scenarios.

They're classified as support because they don't JUST heal or JUST do damage. They do both.

It would even be fair to call them a hybrid, but hybrid in MO terms is wielding two of the three types of combat. Melee, magic, ranged. (or even all three).

So, no. This comparison to a foot fighter isn't accurate and it needs to honestly stop.

Mages will gain more magic schools over time. In MO1 they had Spiritism, Necromancy, and Elementalism.

That allowed them to:

1.) Make pets that fought for you, and were extremely strong.
2.) Make mounts that you could ride.
3.) Change the weather.
4.) Trap people inside of physical objects.
5.) Cast AoE spells that surpassed Earthquake in radius.
6.) Knock players back, and sometimes off of edges / cliffs.
7.) Breathing underwater.
8.) Create temporary pets.
9.) Blind people.
10.) Drag / teleport loot bags.
11.) Reduce stamina regen.

I could go on.

in MO1 maybe, but only 2 out of the list of 11 here are even in game, you're putting handicaps on a class that doesnt have 80% of what you're justifying the terrible restrictions on the class. With melee each direction has a damage type, Horizontal does slash/blunt Over head Slash blunt. Front Piercing. and in different situations and armor you want to change it, or if you see an unarmored part, should they be limited more as well? no you have the freedom to do that because it makes for exciting gameplay, lets say that something comes out like Henrik promised, where the different types will work better on different armors Fire for light and Electric for Metal ofc you want to switch it up and use different spells for different targets but in the current version that's just not an option without Ooming or leaving one target alone and going back for mana, while the FFs zerg him you all ask for changes to the meta, but the meta will continue to be that small groups wont be able to fight bigger ones without bolstering number

 

[Belegar]

The ecumenical magic schools contains damage ans healing and thus has to be balanced as if it has healing. Because it does.

Maybe I misunderstood you, but you said: "That’s the actual balance you’re supposed to play support" I understood it as Mages should Heal, purify, corrupt. That is it for optimum efficiency. Casting damage spells makes you weaker to the party.

Because in a realistic situation you don't cast one of every spell.

This is why mages are interesting because they come equipped with different tools for different scenarios.

They're classified as support because they don't JUST heal or JUST do damage. They do both.

It would even be fair to call them a hybrid, but hybrid in MO terms is wielding two of the three types of combat. Melee, magic, ranged. (or even all three).

So, no. This comparison to a foot fighter isn't accurate and it needs to honestly stop.

Mages will gain more magic schools over time. In MO1 they had Spiritism, Necromancy, and Elementalism.

That allowed them to:

1.) Make pets that fought for you, and were extremely strong.
2.) Make mounts that you could ride.
3.) Change the weather.
4.) Trap people inside of physical objects.
5.) Cast AoE spells that surpassed Earthquake in radius.
6.) Knock players back, and sometimes off of edges / cliffs.
7.) Breathing underwater.
8.) Create temporary pets.
9.) Blind people.
10.) Drag / teleport loot bags.
11.) Reduce stamina regen.

I could go on.

So your argument is Mages are OP now (or are at a fine power level) because a year(s) from now they will get new spells that will make them good?? That sounds pretty unfair. Come on?

 

[LM Tychon]

Thread has been cleaned. I would like to remind everyone in this thread that this is a feedback thread, not one to argue ad hominem or call each-other names simply because you disagree.

 

[Evelyn]

Mages do not need any buffs from my PoV. Mounted fatmage is still the one thing that makes people rage, but nerfing dexmages because of fatmages is not the right way.

 

[Emdash]

Not to overly derail, but I never did understand why there are 'no plans to add magic resist armor,' because light magi resist armor is what I would be rocking ALL THE TIME. Doesn't really seem fair to not have that now that mage dmg is kind of 'more of a thing' than it used to be. haha. Obviously, you'd have to sacrifice prots but why would there ever be a dmg type that isn't resisted by armor? I mean, you could add stuff like talismans, but that would mean you could stack steel armor + wear one, so that's actually worse balance wise.

Psyche is cool as something to resist magic, but guess what... con resists dmg, too (right?); it doesn't mean that there is no need for armor. haha.

Edit: and I'm talking about a full set like a robe or something, not stuff that you could mix and match to get magi resist and have phys chest, legs, head, or w/e.

 

[finegamingconnoisseur]

According to this source (See point number 4): https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/aams/hd_aams.htm

It would appear that plate armour was actually quite flexible and allowed the wearer great degree of mobility and movement, though not allowing them to sprint for very long due to its weight. At least in the medieval period, before the rise of gunpowder and firearms which caused plate armour to increase in weight to compensate, until they were phased out completely due to obsolescence.

In this regard, it might be reasonable to balance plate armour by making them not reduce movement speed or stamina drain when not sprinting. However, the moment the player wearing heavy armour starts sprinting, they will experience 1.25x stamina drain regardless of their skill in Heavy Armour Training. A similar but slightly lower penalty (perhaps 1.05x and progressively scaling up) can be applied to other armours heavier than soft armours.

This would not only make heavy armours vs. lighter armours more balanced, but make all armour types useful in their respective situations. Heavy armour for short sprints on the battlefield to close the distance against an opposing army, and light armour for guerrilla warfare or when heavy protection is not needed.

 

[[CTX] Contractor]

According to this source (See point number 4): https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/aams/hd_aams.htm

It would appear that plate armour was actually quite flexible and allowed the wearer great degree of mobility and movement, though not allowing them to sprint for very long due to its weight. At least in the medieval period, before the rise of gunpowder and firearms which caused plate armour to increase in weight to compensate, until they were phased out completely due to obsolescence.

In this regard, it might be reasonable to balance plate armour by making them not reduce movement speed or stamina drain when not sprinting. However, the moment the player wearing heavy armour starts sprinting, they will experience 1.25x stamina drain regardless of their skill in Heavy Armour Training. A similar but slightly lower penalty (perhaps 1.05x and progressively scaling up) can be applied to other armours heavier than soft armours.

This would not only make heavy armours vs. lighter armours more balanced, but make all armour types useful in their respective situations. Heavy armour for short sprints on the battlefield to close the distance against an opposing army, and light armour for guerrilla warfare or when heavy protection is not needed.

I'd counter that idea by saying wearing no armor should give you higher stamina regen (then the default) and as you go up in armor weight your stamina regen multiplier goes down.

This way it actually does encourage lighter armors because your stamina regen would be much higher then currently where the numbers aren't much different.

They could toy with the numbers and probably make light armors good for certain situations.

 

[Belegar]

Not to overly derail, but I never did understand why there are 'no plans to add magic resist armor,' because light magi resist armor is what I would be rocking ALL THE TIME. Doesn't really seem fair to not have that now that mage dmg is kind of 'more of a thing' than it used to be. haha. Obviously, you'd have to sacrifice prots but why would there ever be a dmg type that isn't resisted by armor? I mean, you could add stuff like talismans, but that would mean you could stack steel armor + wear one, so that's actually worse balance wise.

Psyche is cool as something to resist magic, but guess what... con resists dmg, too (right?); it doesn't mean that there is no need for armor. haha.

Edit: and I'm talking about a full set like a robe or something, not stuff that you could mix and match to get magi resist and have phys chest, legs, head, or w/e.

Someone actually suggested that their should be a 4th defence on armour. So Blunt/Piercing/Slashing/Magic.

Could be Intresting.

 

[Emdash]

Someone actually suggested that their should be a 4th defence on armour. So Blunt/Piercing/Slashing/Magic.

Could be Intresting.

absolutely. Psyche is kind of an underused stat tho in terms of game application and bonuses it applies (other than magic +s for a few things, cooking, taming, almost no prof skills use psyche and it seems to be the only skill without an all-time functional use, like even int makes you read faster, mbe psyche does, too? Forgot.) I mean, honestly, I'd prefer it to be all out like elemental +15 to fire -15 to ice or whatever... but that's DREAMS in terms of this.

 

[Moonman]

I know and respect that they don't want speedy dex builds to be kings, but i mean... The fact that I can't really get away from a full plate wearing footie as a naked mage is baffling. Wearing heavy armor should have a downside over wearing lighter armor. Else, why would anyone ever wear anything but heavy armor aside from mages for mana regen?

This is true. I like realism. In realism, heavy armor training would only slightly allow you to have more speed, not allow you to be as fast as a naked. But then who would play heavy armor is the question? Someone with heavy armor would easily get ganked by 1 alvarin.