one character per account .....

Automatiic

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But you want them to sell you that option instead of giving it to you. So its pay to win.

But I'm not suggesting that we can buy PROGRESS with a second toon - just the ability to HAVE a second toon. There is no getting around the fact that it will take an immense amount of time and effort to develop that toon. Also, you're missing my original point which is the FACT that as it is right now, people will have multiple toons anyway by having multiple steam accounts. The problem with this is that because they are on different steam accounts, they can log all of them in at the same time. By allowing multiple toons on one account, that each must be paid for, this won't happen any longer.
 

Jatix

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Also, you're missing my original point which is the FACT that as it is right now, people will have multiple toons anyway by having multiple steam accounts. The problem with this is that because they are on different steam accounts, they can log all of them in at the same time. By allowing multiple toons on one account, that each must be paid for, this won't happen any longer.
Or they can just give us more character slots on 1 sub, because they obviously designed the game with the intent to have multiple characters. Which wouldn't be pay to win. Paying for more characters for an advantage over players who dont, is pay to win, regardless of if they have to put more effort in or not, or if its multi steam accounts or on one. Because in the end when all their toons are maxed, the person paying more has a huge advantage over the players who dont.
 

Highlander

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2 toons x account ( second toon must pay to unlock) and they share the same surname, this way other players can identify him
 
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Nudisto

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Still no word or updates on 2 char slots? This seems to be the most requested feedback...
 

Jatix

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We wont get more char slots until people start down voting on steam and saying 1 char slot sucks and you cant do anything in the game on 1 character, in a game they have to sub to play. Money talks, theres no subs yet so if people quit it doesnt matter. Doesnt matter how much content is in a game if you arent allowed to do most of it without deleting your character.
 

Nudisto

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We wont get more char slots until people start down voting on steam and saying 1 char slot sucks and you cant do anything in the game on 1 character, in a game they have to sub to play. Money talks, theres no subs yet so if people quit it doesnt matter. Doesnt matter how much content is in a game if you arent allowed to do most of it without deleting your character.

I agree, once new players realize they want to play a different combat and been playing for weeks and have no other option but to start over from scratch the bad reviews will start pouring in.
 

PuckInmortali

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No, the current approach is fine and comes with a fair amount of merit in it's intent to promote a healthy community dynamic through reputation and meaningful character choice. Personally I'm happy with this decision and in my book it's pros outweigh the cons.

The only inflexibility right now is your bloodline choice plus that of your personal time. Everything else about your character is and or will be changeable, including age and height with potions etc.

Commitment is important for this kind of game where reputation is key and your role in the world is more defined by your ability to perform certain tasks. If you're an indecisive person or have issues committing to one role in particular, then of course this is going to be a hard pill to swallow.

I have to agree with this and I am, what is often referred to as, an alt-oholic. I am the indecisive player who likes to experience games from different character builds. On top of that, I am a thematic player, meaning everything from my name to my race to the build I play lines up in a way that might be considered hardcore RP, though I don't espouse "thees" and "thous". This is my burden, and it has been the same for me since I first starting playing D&D in the mid 80s. With all of this, I am still on board for one character per account. Why?

Well, precisely for the reasons Woody posted, and to add support to it, I site SWG. Outside of UO, the original SWG has to be the most widely beloved sandbox-ish MMORPG ever created. Sure, it had the golden IP which drew people in, but they stayed because of its features, and is fondly remembered for the same. In SWG, what you chose to be mattered, and influenced your game experience in such a way that a multi-character account could not. For example, I had an entertainer character who gained in fame, and was hired by a guild to "perform" at their guild house. My brother also played at the time, and he was well known as a crafter. On another one of us was a well known duelist, and could stand apparently afk, and Empire characters (the duelist was a rebel) would never attack him. This could happen, in large part, because of the one character per account restriction.

Some may argue that you could achieve the same with multiple characters per account. However, I think that it is obvious that notoriety and reputation is built upon time spent in the game as that character, filling that niche. Had I not played my performer in the local cantinas frequently, having my time split between different characters, I would have not been known as a top entertainer. Anyone could have done what I did, if they would have had many characters to play with, and we would all just be yet another nameless, generic example of X. Most games are filled with interchangeable clones. But, because of the single character restriction, I will always remember Reejo, Lynch, and Blind Lou Sugar (and others might too).

EDIT: Let me add that you could change your character "class" in SWG as well. But, it was a big process to level it up, such a big one in fact that to unlock Jedi you had to take your character to max level in all classes. Of course, once you did that, you sort of lost what you were known for. It was basically starting again, and I think that is good because it did provide a "way out" for the bored player, looking for something new. We should not forget that MO2 allows for this too.

EDIT II: In addition, the call for for multiple characters per account can come from multiple places, like my alt-oholism. However, there are a few player types that I know desire multiple characters per account, and these play types are usually not great for the game overall. Yeah, this is a bit of a hot take, and some are probably going to be offended. I am not trying to offend here, only point out. Here are a few:

1. Mechanics-Meta-Man: This player often wants to be able to follow the meta uninhibited, play the "most powerful" character, and nothing else is as important. They tend to reduce the game to button pushing and a mode of mechanical gameplay that could exist as easily in a MOBA, FPS or fighting game. This guy or gal wants to have multiple characters to make that pursuit easier. When archery is OP, they switch to their archer, when it changes to magic, they have a wizard waiting. If not mitigated somewhat, It often leads to cookie cutter builds, bandwagoning, and a real lack of diversity.

2. The One Man Economy: This player dislikes the fact that certain clades get boosts to different types of crafting and gathering, and thinks that they should be able to cut out player interaction for the sake of their independent success and enjoyment. They want a stable of crafter/gatherer types, so they can harvest trees with this guy, refine ore with this gal, etc. I feel that these players miss the point of a sandbox MMORPG, and wonder if they really like this genre at all. If not mitigated somewhat, this leads to isolated, independent gameplay, devoid of community.

3. Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde: it's the guy who wants to play both sides of the fence. These players want to have multiple characters so that they can be Bob the Respected on one character, and then a griefer, spy, or general pain in the butt on another. You know these guys, they want cheap, throwaway characters so that they can engage in whatever, and have it not effect their "main". Again, this isn't good for the genre, and if not mitigated it leads to lots of griefing and obnoxious behavior.
 
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MoltenIdol

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2 toons x account ( second toon must pay to unlock) and they share the same surname, this way other players can identify him
People will just avoid the surname thing by buying two different subscriptions, especially if its the same price as having two characters on one account with a shared surname.
 
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MoltenIdol

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... I think that it is obvious that notoriety and reputation is built upon time spent in the game as that character, filling that niche. Had I not played my performer in the local cantinas frequently, having my time split between different characters, I would have not been known as a top entertainer. Anyone could have done what I did, if they would have had many characters to play with.

Exactly. And they can do that, but ONLY if they pay literally double for it. And they will. People are openly admitting it. Pay to win.

Pay-2-win is pay-2-win, no matter the extra time you need to put in, or the extra work you have to do. Whatever! If you really want it, you can do it, and end up with an enormous advantage over people with, say, not enough money to pay for an alt-char? As is their only option if they want to compete with the zealots? (unless you make it free to have alt chars, and make everybody even)
And guess what that meta is gonna look like.
How is it not pay2win? Why would people PAY to have alt-chars, if it wasnt giving them some kind of advantage?
Ofcourse, playing different builds is fun and all, but having more toons in this game, just so happens to come with a natural advantage. Apparently a huge one, as its the whole and sole reason SV is refusing to give us more toons pr. sub to begin with! (unless you pay more, then its okay. Go ahead and break the game).

If yall are not ready to call a spade a spade, lets call it "Pay-2-advantage", for easier digestion :).

People are in here talking about "Oh but the time you have to put in.." "its just sad, not fun..". Definitely still pay-2-advantage my guys. I havent read a single argument in here even slightly persuading me to feel okay about a Pay-2-advantage bussiness-model. Im almost inclined to say i havent even read a single argument at all. Sure, people may have some feelings about some things and stuff, but really, at the end of the day, its still pay-2-advantage. And some people might abuse that, somehow.

I say: Just give people the amount of characters they want. Make everybody even. The amount of time they can/want to put in, and their skill, is the only thing determining of a players succes, and the only limiting factor, and should not depend on your IRL economy and ability to buy multiple accounts. If you want to be sad and spend 25 hours a day on this game, and experience different classes, should that then be paywalled behind more money for the inconvenience? It is shortsighted, and unfair, and really doesnt solve the original problem of "multi-tooning", like, at all, it simply makes it more inconvenient (and also makes SV a lot of money). This approach almost seems unclever. Unless, ofcourse, it's because they want to make more money. Then its smart enough. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Okay, but then what are the downsides of giving people as many toons as they want, with just one game subscription?? (besides SV's economical loss)

Nothing, because people CAN ALREADY HAVE AS MANY TOONS AS THEY WANT (as long as they pay extra ofcourse)
So yeah.. the only difference is you have to pay more, because someone else is doing it, and therefore gaining an advantage over you, if you dont do the same.

Im hoping yall are starting to see; regardless of your feelings and fond memories, in the end, its still pay-2-win, or, AT LEAST, pay-2-advantage. Which is the same.

Im not meaning to sound belittling or anything, but this is just silly. Its pay-2-win. Face reality. For everyones sake.
For anyone saying that mutiple toons break the game; paywalling this, logically wont solve the problem. It will simply turn it into "avoid this limit by paying more".

Lastly, im agreeing that the less alt-chars there are in this game, the better. Thats true. But, you know, pay2win might not be the right, or only solution. Maybe. Hell if i know. All i know is that its definitely pay2win, right now. No solution can be found, until that fact is accepted. If there even is a problem to begin with. We'll see.

Just sharing my view.
 
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Rorry

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I say: Just give people the amount of characters they want. Make everybody even. The amount of time they can/want to put in, and their skill, is the only thing determining of a players succes, and the only limiting factor, and should not depend on your IRL economy and ability to buy multiple accounts. If you want to be sad and spend 25 hours a day on this game, and experience different classes, should that then be paywalled behind more money for the inconvenience? It is shortsighted, and unfair, and really doesnt solve the original problem of "multi-tooning", like, at all, it simply makes it more inconvenient (and also makes SV a lot of money). This approach almost seems unclever. Unless, ofcourse, it's because they want to make more money. Then its smart enough. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Wouldn't matter if there were more toons per account, people would still *gasp* pay more to get more accounts.

Pay to win only applies if you are speaking of some in-game economic win condition. Doesn't matter how many characters you have, if you suck in a fight you will still lose it.
 
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Jatix

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Multi sub is still pay to win, just not in the same sense people normally think. Multi sub doesnt make your fat mage hit 200+ and 1 shot people. But you can res your red fatmage outside town, give him gear with your blue alt, kill nubs with him, trade the loot over to bank/sell, and then repeat. And if they remove red priests from outside town, you could sub a 3rd acc spiritism to res yourself outside town. Repeat.

Theres an infinite amount of cases where you have an advantage over a player paying 1 sub, buy paying 2 or more subs. Which is garbage. In case I'm mistaken, paying more and having an advantage = pay to win.

And the biggest problem, is when its a designed feature. MO2 gives you one character intentionally knowing its super limited. Theres nothing about this that improves gameplay. Its about the money. they know more people will buy bonus subs for an advantage. If they really wanted the game to be fair they would make it easier to do more on 1 character or create a system so you can have more characters with the same name and standing and stuff. Which would still leave some benefits for subbing alt accounts, but it would be less bad.
 
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MoltenIdol

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Im not even sure its about the money, for real. Im almost more inclined to think they just genuinely do it for the exstra added character commitment, or whatever they think makes the game better. And it might make the game better, im practically convinced that it does really impact the gameworld in a good way, people having to commit and stuff. But all that goes straight down the drain when people start buying more subs to break the game. Thats what i meant with this approach seeming unclever. Like, really not thought through. There must be a better way.

Unfortunately, this might be that one thing where they didnt learn from MO1.

ON the other hand, making altchars twice the price (like it is now) might just work, and maybe only a few will have alts (doubt it tho)..

But even if that was the case, that would still just feel like having a few "cheaters" running around, doing unfair stuff that people without alts cant do.

A way to make sure no one can cheat, is by making sure everyone can cheat equally, I guess.

Or just circumvent this whole circus with some EVEN MORE thought out gameplay mechanics. I dunno.



Right now it just seems like youre gonna have to pay "double the box price" to even have an enjoyable pvp life, without feeling like people are cheating you using the current "pay2win alt-char system".

Again, just saying this because it might become a real shit problem later. AND also, who woldnt like to be able to try more than one character anyway?


EDIT!! AN ACTUALLY MAYBE PRODUCTIVE IDEA:

Might it maybe work, if you could only have one ACTIVE character pr. sub?

Check it out: So, you can have multiple characters pr subbed account, like 4 or whatever, and you can see them all from there - but you can only have one of the characters active at a time, and activating/switching to another character, would take like, 6 hours, 24 hours, or whatever seems right. Hmm?

People could still just buy multiple subs, but maybe this would make that a bit less likely, AND ALSO allow people to play multiple characters with one, wihtout allowing the game to become the United States of Alt-chars.
 
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Deathshroud

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In MO1 SV waited to long to add trade brokers and basic equipment for new players to the game forcing players to invest in crafters to support themselves which resulted in a damaged economy by the time they did implement trade brokers because everyone had already become self sufficient.

I think with 2 character slots and an implemented economy and trade broker the issue wouldnt be like it was in mo. If players can reliably find and buy equipment they need to fight then there is no need for them to develop crafting characters.
 

PuckInmortali

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Exactly. And they can do that, but ONLY if they pay literally double for it. And they will. People are openly admitting it. Pay to win.
...

You can call it what you like, but a box price plus a sub fee is a pretty restrictive governor. In addition, there is not a game out there where you can't buy two, or more, accounts if you want. So, if we are talking about imperfect solutions, then the most good still comes from a single character account.
 

MoltenIdol

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You can call it what you like, but a box price plus a sub fee is a pretty restrictive governor. In addition, there is not a game out there where you can't buy two, or more, accounts if you want. So, if we are talking about imperfect solutions, then the most good still comes from a single character account.

I think you fail to recognize the fact that the actual, litteral meta in this game is to pay for alt-chars, because its OP in ways that other mmos dont suffer from, at least not to the same extreme. In Mortal II, paying extra for an alt-char is the only way to gain an unfair advantage over others who are not able/inclined to spend money on multiple accounts just to keep up with the people taking advantage of this.
The endgame meta is probably gonna be unbalanced in the very long run, because of this. Youre essentially being forced to pay more money, just to break the whole intention of the one-character-per-sub thing, if you want to compete with others who wont think twice about exploiting this.

Its like: We have this idea that if you can only have one character pr sub, you have to commit, and all the things that come with that will make the game more fun, balanced, and immersive (insert more buzzwords here).

But, you can just pay more and ignore that intention completely, and everything that should have come with it, such as more player-interaction, less self sufficiency, not being able to have an alt stationed at all hotspots in the world because you are sad, so on and so forth. You even get to dodge the grief-limiting factor that would/could be Surnames, if you pay more. Because mønéÿ.

I realize theres no way to stop people from buying more subs, but one could at least stop making it so attractive to number-addicts who are already known to just ruin every aspect of roleplaying and immersion in literally all mmo(rpg)s, because poweeeerrrrr, unlimited poweeeerrrrrr. But its cool, its cool.
IF everyone could ruin the game evenly, it would be even cooler.
 
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MoltenIdol

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Also, I'm just gonna put this here again, since nobody seems to have reacted my actually maybe constructive IDEA:


Might it maybe work, if you could have only one "active" character pr. sub?

What I mean by this is;
You can create multiple characters on the same account, like 4, 5, 12 or whatever, and you can see them all from that account - but you can only have a single "active" character at a time, meaning you can only play on one of those characters, and the process of activating/switching to another character should take like, 24 hours, 2 days, or whatever seems right, to make sure alts are very ineffecient at letting people become self-sufficient, while still letting people try different builds, all with just one subscription. Hmm?

People could still just buy multiple subs, but maybe this would make it a bit less attractive, AND also allow people to play multiple different types of characters, with just one Mortal II-subscription, AND doing this without completely allowing the game to become the United States of Alt-chars, because the very slow character-switching time will make sure that "alt'ing" in this way will become very inconvenient and slow, BUT still just about possible for everyone willing to make the time commitment to exploit it.

Right now, you can do all this without any restrictions if you pay more, and that's what makes it pay2win.

So unless someone can think of a way to completely stop people from paying for more subs to gain advantageous alt-char powers, this seems, maybe, a bit more fair. Will it break the endgame? Will everyone eventually become self sufficient anyway? I dont know. All I believe is, this way, everone can do it evenly, but very slowly, if they REALLY want to while simultainiously having a lot of free time on their hands, and being really good at planning their gaming-sessions.

In addition, one might think about if one should still be able to play on their currently active character, while the "switching/activation"-process of another character is going on in the background. One should at least be able to cancel the process.

As a last "hurdle", characters that have been docile for a long time, should suffer some form of skill rust:
Skills would gradually become lower the longer the character is inactive, but those skills should be easily reobtainable, with a big bonus to xp from performing said skill, up to the point where you reach your pre-rusted skill levels.
Skills should also never rust below 65% of your characters actual unrusted skill-level, or something like that.

Something to think about.

Good day yall
 
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Tzone

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With one house per account it does seem pretty p2w. Didnt think it was because he was trying to cash grab in the past but now it kinda seems like a cash grab.
 

wwkiller

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yes as a char builder my self, i hate the char limed, only vets are gone want to fully skill more then one char, aka your core player base.
even a lot off vets still need to ask guild mates if they want to get into a new profesion for tips.
so putting a one char limed in is only a hindrence for the active player base.
 

Najwalaylah

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The only way to stop this would be through community policing and banning alt accts, but that seems a bit harsh.
Wouldn't you have to be at least a close acquaintance, possibly a "trusted friend" of the person with multiple accounts, to know he had them? (Unless she advertised it on the forums, as some do.) Then, you'd have to know which avatar was whose. That sort of restricts even the chance of community policing, unless by that you mean making reports of 'suspicions' to Star Vault, and then seeing if they can keep up with the investigation of each one.

If they start banning accounts based on suspicion (not evidence) of multiple accounts, then all previous records for bad reviews& publicity will be swiftly broken.

So that seems not only harsh, but unlikely.
...(B)eing hard-locked out of any play style sucks
Indeed, it does.
I don't think this problem would exist if we had 2 slots.
Not until someone had a Veela and a Thursar, and they want to do something only viable for Humans. Maybe it wouldn't come up.
Family name is cool.
No; having played in a family, I'd rather share a serial number (available on inspection) than a family name between characters of mine. Hypothetically. (That would leave players free to share a surname with other players for the usual reasons people share surnames.)
At least if they allowed us to get more chars per steam acct, they could come down harder on people who used the alts to port into areas where action was happening. They could explicitly state that is not allowed.
How that would be enforced (aside from saying 'please don't'; that never works) is unclear. You may have seen right here in these fourms what the result is of having a rule that game *.ini files must not be edited, even while they are in plain text. What would Star Vault do? (I have an idea, but it's a atrociously simple, and does not cover all "areas where action (would be) happening".)
The community knows...
I think you overestimate the community's capabilities, or you're using a loose sense of 'know'.
... (P)eople who can read game logs should know, too, because eventually you're going to trade with your alts
So, what will Star Vault do? Scan for trades between people using the same IP? Same MAC address? I wonder the same things you must.
(J)ust make it so that they all have to spawn at the same spot.
This suggestion makes me wonder how, if multiple avatars per account were allowed under this rule, they'd ever change their spawn point.
  • Char. A moves. Spawn point remains with Char. B, at home.
  • Char. B logs in, moves to the same place.

Does the spawn point for Char. A change while it is offline (while Char. B is logged-in, and moves to the new spot, and logs out)?
And what if Char. B moves to a third place, instead of the same place where Char. A is?

You could help us visualise this.
Create some NPC to trade items between your chars ( not mailbox lol) and ban multiboxing, too.
What could possibly go wrong?

And, lastly, what do you mean by 'ban mailboxing'? is it universally "no items sent through the mail"? (Though, for all I know, Henrik might like that idea.)
 
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