Normalize reaction time

Speznat

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Its not that i deny your thesis and i didnt do so prior, iam honestly not reading them at all. Not that i dont aknowledge it but i highly dislike this theoretical talking without even having seen the current state and throughly testing it. There are many issues atm with combat that many ppl dont see unless they fight regulary. I see no point in arguing based on some thesis cause we dont know exactly how SV set up their system and how they prevent specific things. Its very speculative... but the stuff you see and can do in game that is the really relevant stuff.

Thats why i insist on everyone before talking about this kind of stuff seriously to atleast try the current state and try the other side to get atleast a feeling for where these suggestions come from and where you notice them. Else i personally cant take them seriously...

Like said i dont deny your thesis, i just tell you.. High Ping has a huge disadvantage against low ping.. because thats the praxis. You wont find any regular player that will deny this. The only ppl saying this are the ppl that dont play.
ok than i will read your stuff not too. i was just honestly explain that to you in a friendly matter:

just an example
 

Speznat

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Just prove your thesis is all iam saying :p
I even linked a tool for you to prove it^^
Sry but youre just like seem to be someone who take feeling as facts and proven numbers.

sry wasnt ment as hard as it reads i guess xD.
smae with the flat earth guys i just think they are trolls, but no some really thinking the earth is flat.
but yeah why not. Lets say the earth is flat, problems dont exists.

So there are no problems in the world, i will just take my rainbow glasses and be happy, there is no such a thing as radiation or poverty or i dont know whatever comes to your mind.

but for me its. just facts math and science. im fuckign german. Fuck the feelings. only facts and results count nothing else matters.

Noone asked how you got that and noone is interested, the fucking results and the fucking numbers matter. throw your feeling out of the window, if you argue with feeling in networking than you clearly lost your mind.

party hard
 
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Valoran

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ok than i will read your stuff not too. i was just honestly explain that to you in a friendly matter:

just an example
The peeker's advantage is not relevant to MO2 basically at all, unless you apply it to the same situation like running around a corner ready to hit someone.

In reality the only thing this affects is slight movement desync from client to client, and has no positive effect on the actual combat attack animations at the moment due to the ping based delay system in place, which severely gimps anyone who has higher ping than you.
 
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Valoran

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Sry but youre just like seem to be someone who take feeling as facts and proven numbers.

sry wasnt ment as hard as it reads i guess xD.
smae with the flat earth guys i just think they are trolls, but no some really thinking the earth is flat.
but yeah why not. Lets say the earth is flat, problems dont exists.

So there are no problems in the world, i will just take my rainbow glasses and be happy, there is no such a thing as radiation or poverty or i dont know whatever comes to your mind.

but for me its. just facts math and science. im fuckign german. Fuck the feelings. only facts and results count nothing else matters.

Noone asked how you got and noone is interested, the fucking results and the fucking numbers matter. throw your feeling out of the window, if you argue with feeling in networking than you clearly lost your mind.

party hard:
He is not arguing with feelings, he's simply pointing out in a non confrontational way that what you're talking about isn't relevant to the context of the argument.

If you had increased your ping and tested it in game, you would have immediately learned that there is no advantage to high ping anymore, only disadvantages.
 
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Speznat

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The peeker's advantage is not relevant to MO2 basically at all, unless you apply it to the same situation like running around a corner ready to hit someone.

In reality the only thing this affects is slight movement desync from client to client, and has no positive effect on the actual combat attack animations at the moment due to the ping based delay system in place, which severely gimps anyone who has higher ping than you.
finally thank you. :)

yeah i agree. but its there, not so shitty liek it was in MO1.

but it will ever be there its just how our networking is made.

but rmemebr only advantage for egressive playing TRULY AGRESSIVE!!!!
there will always be an advantage even if its slight sometimes or sometimes hard. In tarkov every player with higher ping than 150 is get kicked out. because of that. sure in a game like tarkov it makes a huge differents. but i bet that even a ping of 3000 in MO can do pretty devastating things too.
 

Valoran

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finally thank you. :)

yeah i agree. but its there, not so shitty liek it was in MO1.

but it will ever be there its just how our networking is made.

but rmemebr only advantage for egressive playing TRULY AGRESSIVE!!!!
there will always be an advantage even if its slight sometimes or sometimes hard. In tarkov every player with higher ping than 150 is get kicked out. because of that. sure in a game like tarkov it makes a huge differents. but i bet that even a ping of 3000 in MO can do pretty devastating things too.
That's the whole point though, they can't with the current system.

I'm not sure if you're aware, but there's a system in place at the moment that adds a delay to the release of every attack equal to your ping.

So I have 300 ping, I have +300ms added to every single attack making the game unplayable for me.

Someone increasing their ping to 3000 would have 3 whole seconds added to every swing before it gets released making it very difficult to abuse.
 
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Speznat

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with a ping differnet of for example 500
That's the whole point though, they can't with the current system.

I'm not sure if you're aware, but there's a system in place at the moment that adds a delay to the release of every attack equal to your ping.

So I have 300 ping, I have +300ms added to every single attack making the game unplayable for me.

Someone increasing their ping to 3000 would have 3 whole seconds added to every swing before it gets releases making it very difficult to abuse.
thats nice to know. thank you for fact based information. I aprreciate it.

ok so yeah thats nice.

there still be the a 0.3 differents in Movement possition?
wich sucks.
 

Speznat

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with a ping differnet of for example 500

thats nice to know. thank you for fact based information. I aprreciate it.

ok so yeah thats nice.

there still be the a 0.3 differents in Movement possition?
wich sucks.
sry dacu you old shack. i didn't knowed that SV actually finally did something against that.

maybe im just pissed because low education people here in germany are acting more stupid than ever and that makes me mad they are arguing everytime withotu and facts jsut feelings they are so dump its just sad. maybe i should take vacation and throw my pc out of the windows for a bit.

anyway was nice evening with you guys. @Dracu @Valoran see you tomorrow xD

Party SOFT :)
 

Dracu

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sry dacu you old shack. i didn't knowed that SV actually finally did something against that.

maybe im just pissed because low education people here in germany are acting more stupid than ever and that makes me mad they are arguing everytime withotu and facts jsut feelings they are so dump its just sad. maybe i should take vacation and throw my pc out of the windows for a bit.

anyway was nice evening with you guys. @Dracu @Valoran see you tomorrow xD

Party SOFT :)
You are forgiven because Fluttershy is my favorite MLP <3
And for fellow Germans i have an open heart.
Just please... when talking about facts... atleast play the game and see how it works... and not just guess how it might work..
 

barcode

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what you term 'peeker's advantage' is not a function of a high ping. its just a fact of latency. if its 150ms from you to the server and anotehr 150ms from the server to the other guy, then the other guy is seeing a ghost of where you were 300ms ago. in your case you assume the other guy is standing still so you have that 300ms advantage to do something before he can even see you moving on his screen. this can possibly be mitigated somewhat with prediction but ... well prediction has its own problems as we well know.

it doesnt matter who is doing the 'peeking', its 300 ms for either party. it doesnt matter how the latency is split, if one has 20ms to the server and the other 280ms its still a 300ms difference between the ghosts on your respective machines. theres no real correction for this but making medium ping players completely unviable is clearly *not* the solution

-barcode
 
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Speznat

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You are forgiven because Fluttershy is my favorite MLP <3
And for fellow Germans i have an open heart.
Just please... when talking about facts... atleast play the game and see how it works... and not just guess how it might work..
I dont need to play in order to know that the latency is x ms so yeah here we are again.

just look at the youtube videos, maybe than you understand.
 

Kavu

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and thats not gonna happen anytime this milenial i guess.
There are still 80 friggin' years in this millenium*
What sort of prediction is that?

300er ping vs 25 ping in action
Kavu is AUS player with that ping... this is litterally unplayable
Actually no Drac, I'm not AUS, that's not even 300 vs 25.
That's 130 to 160 ping vs. 25.
I'm NA.

It's unplayable for me, can't imagine an AUS would even try.
 
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Kavu

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but rmemebr only advantage for egressive playing TRULY AGRESSIVE!!!!
there will always be an advantage even if its slight sometimes or sometimes hard. In tarkov every player with higher ping than 150 is get kicked out. because of that. sure in a game like tarkov it makes a huge differents. but i bet that even a ping of 3000 in MO can do pretty devastating things too.
Aggressive Play in MO2:

I'm not exactly known for playing defensively. I've always been very chase down, grab, and smash into the floor. With that said, MO2 is a defensive player's game right now. (It was even worse in that sense before the most recent patch which removed 360 degree blocks)

Aggressiveness doesn't work the way it worked in MO1, doing that stuff in MO2, you just look like you're moving in slow motion to people with low ping, then they parry you and whip you with an attack that swings through your block. Like my video demonstrated. The days of NA strats vs. EU strats are gone. It's just a low ping player's game now.

Even if you have comparable ping to the person you're fighting, blocking is so easy now that to get around blocks you have to repeatedly spin or flail your mouse and try to screw with the animations while also running around a lot, wasting an immense amount of stamina to get a single hit in. Assuming you get the hit in, and they don't parry you. After doing this, all the other player has to do in order to counter you... is return the pressure. They will have little trouble doing this as you've now spent half of your stamina.

The Tarkov Comparison:

Tarkov is a shooter. Which MO is not. Weapons are not hitscan, and attacks can be blocked. Blocks are judged by the server, not the client. You can't pop out from behind a wall and one-tap someone in MO2. Because your ability to negate damage is decided by the server. This means the person with a better connection to the server always comes out on top of a question on whether or not damage is applied. This sort of thing doesn't exist in Tarkov or Valorant. There is no bullet parrying when you're running around on customs. Different game. Different systems. Different consequences of latency.

Facts Vs. Feelings:

I dont need to play in order to know
Easy there, Ben Shapiro.
You're going on these rants about facts and feelings, when you haven't actually played the game to get the facts. Makes ya look pretty silly.
 
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Rhias

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@Speznat Rarely that I disagree with you, but this time Kavu is right, If you want I can show you this evening how good offensive playstile works in MO2...
 

Speznat

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@Speznat Rarely that I disagree with you, but this time Kavu is right, If you want I can show you this evening how good offensive playstile works in MO2...
yeah i already said 5 posts ealier that its maybe because of playstayle and how the game works dont give you an advantage. but that dont change shit about the delay/False Prediction/hitmiss prediction.

I fought myself in Mo2 i know thats the fighting style is differents than form mo1 wich is good. I never played with ultra high ping tho maybe i should try it out.

@Kavu
But it doesnt change the fact that a delay is wich ist not a "THEORETICAL shit" its just how it is, You can repeat yourself with "PLAy its diffrent whinywhiny bullshit blaah.. moreBS blah.." as often as you want maybe you believe your stuff someday. BUT its DEPENDING on the situation if you have an Advantage/Disadvantage. because thats just how networking is working, again you cant change law of physics.
 
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Dracu

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I dont need to play in order to know that the latency is x ms so yeah here we are again.

just look at the youtube videos, maybe than you understand.
You make it really hard for me to stay polite in this discussion... tone down on the emotions a bit xD

Iam not the developer so i can only give you info on things i saw either by the devs confirmed or things that i tested throughly in game but its mostly both though.

-1) out of sync
Currently pretty much no player is in sync att all when it comes to positioning. This has to do with currently beeing send fewer position updates then needed. This is currently due to fine tuning of required packet conversation.
- the system uses a mix of relative and absolute positions which results in these out of place issues somtimes. This is ping independent and always results to a 1meter lag minimum in positions even low vs low ping.
2) rotation syncing seems to use a snapping system to snap players to closest angle when spinning very fast. This leads to out of sync rotations when fighting.
3) hits are calculated client side while adding the ping on the swing delay.
Generally its player sends „i hit something“ server asks opponent if if opponent is blocking at that time. Recently someone explained this to me as attackers advantage.
4) regular normal attacks are useless in duells it comes down to counter game and eu has faster swings and more time to react.
5) the slow packet send rate results in blocks sometimes not beeing recognized in time. This gets worse with faster weapons that leave nearly no time to react requiring e sport level reaction timing even on eu side.here again low ping is in the advantage.
6) due to position updates stuff like the old prediction bug work. Its alot harder though
7) out of sync positions can lead to unblockable attacks under specific circumstances. Ping independent
8) animation glitching is huge and reduce your time to react if not practised to see them. Making it even harder for low ping.

I hope this adds a bit info to the understanding of current combat state. Iam no pro on the technical side. Which is why i dont argue against that to begin with... my argument is that high ping has no advantage over low ping. And you can say that i dont understand as much as you like.

Do i k ow everything? Hell no how could i? You know more maybe more then me there perhaps. But in terms of testing the system i duell everyday for hours on end and test test test. Try to search for informations how things work and try to understand and learn and adapt.

Cause thats whats needed praxis feedback. The Theoretical stuff is SVs job and even with these issues they do an amazing job. The current state is not ideal which is fine, the combat will break a few more times before its in a brilliant spot.
 
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Eldrath

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I´m all for testing new approaches to this as long as the devs think it´s worth their time. Personally I get the feeling that physics will not enable a one server MMO to reach the fidelity some players want. Unless we all move to London.

Also the germans in this thread need to calm down or it´s back into Besatzung straight away. As a german I´m allowed to say that.
 

Speznat

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I´m all for testing new approaches to this as long as the devs think it´s worth their time. Personally I get the feeling that physics will not enable a one server MMO to reach the fidelity some players want. Unless we all move to London.

Also the germans in this thread need to calm down or it´s back into Besatzung straight away. As a german I´m allowed to say that.
you mena we should calm down like that:

the best part is: Aldi the supermarket/Discounter chain Above all XD
 

Kavu

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You can repeat yourself with "PLAy its diffrent whinywhiny bullshit blaah.. moreBS blah.." as often as you want maybe you believe your stuff someday.
Thank you for your cold, hard, calculated factual evaluation of the apparently identical systems.

You have truly kept this a debate centered on the facts and matters at hand. The information about Aldi supermarket really brought it all together.

You have a good day, sir.
 
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