Mage Fix Suggestions

Kaemik

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These suggestions are linked to the core idea of this topic and balance with other mechanics I'll be adding to this topic. In short, 300 primaries are freed up by making sprinting, combat maneuvering, and blocking secondaries. This allows new primaries to be added to every role.

The point of these suggestions is to create true specializations within the exceptionally broad category of "mage" that lend the game more genuine build variety and keep the role balanced with the changes I suggest for melee and ranged combat.

INTELLIGENCE, PSYCHE, AND MAGIC DEFENSE

The Problem

How these three things are currently handled is... a mess. Naked players have the same magic defense as a fully geared one. Psyche is a supplementary attribute even though optimizing around it cripples every other stat and there are a race (Sarduucans) that seem to be based on being a race with an amazing psyche cap. Intelligence is a hard requirement for any mage but the only attribute that offers zero value whatsoever to other roles.

Fixing Magic Defense

Magic defense is removed entirely from psyche and magic resist (the random chance to resist a spell) is removed from the game. Magic defense is now a stat on armor pieces based on the materials used. It should favor materials used in lighter armors, particularly those of higher value. Wool variants are a great candidate for the highest magic resist material as both a material that isn't currently considered very good and one which thematically makes a lot of sense for a material that would insulate people from spell effects. Wool's stats could be entirely overhauled to optimize it for this role as nobody currently uses it, so nobody would care.

Stone is a great candidate for the "all-around good defenses" armor that compromises between physical and magical defense. Both flakestone and jadeite are underwhelming stat-wise given the time it takes to acquire enough to make a set of armor but are two of the coolest-looking armor sets in the game. Them suddenly being a good choice for people looking to balanced between physical and magical defenses would break nobody's hearts. And stone logically fits this role extremely well as a material that is extremely non-conductive and resistant to changes in heat.

These changes increase both the depth of crafting, creates uses for underutilized material, but also help fix the extremely weird and unbalanced game dynamic between geared melee and ungeared mages without changing the concept that most geared players are going to be more resistant to physical damage than magical damage.

Fixing Psyche (Healing)

Psyche deserves to be a primary stat like all other primary stats. Also, the changes above make it lose its current bonuses that make it useful to all roles.

The first is fixed by dividing healing spells out of regular magic and making them their own specialization with their own schools. This is frankly VERY needed. As someone who is a healer in most MMOs, two single-target healing spells of differing mana efficiency are a great start but real healers who love to play support roles are NOT ok with having these, magic reflect, and purify be the only options available to them.

Nor should we have to pick up a heal spell or two from each and every magic school that comes out to get real variety to our healing. Healing deserves a school of its own ASAP with 2-4 schools in total once all schools are implemented. There is A LOT of good that comes from making a healer be able to spec into healing without picking up magical damage and a DPS mage able to spec into DPS without picking up healing. A healer/DPS mage should be possible but separating those roles allows for a lot more variety of build mixes that could be unique and fun.

So Psyche should be the stat that defines healing power with int entirely losing any influence on it. It's interesting in noting that psyche peaks at age 80 meaning you have to lower all other stats to reach max potential psyche via age and that younger characters (fighters and dex mages) tend to have worse psyche caps than int. I actually kind of like this. I'd buff healing to keep those builds about where they currently are if you were to say make a healer hybrid in the new system, but makes this crippled old man 80yo chunky Sarduucan have some insanely good heals (at the cost of literally everything else). I'd also personally nerf Sheevra a bit in terms of psyche cap as their age clade probably makes them a bit too good with their cap where it currently is.

Fixing Psyche (Secondary Effects)

Having removed magic defense from psyche leaves it with no more secondary. It needs new secondary effects and ones that provide it with some level of use to all roles but the most benefit to it's primary role just like str/dex/con/size.

For that I suggest the following: Increased duration of received buffs, decreased duration of received debuffs, increased received healing from all sources. I'm not going to suggest values because they're not worth debating in this topic. If you think it sounds OP lower the values you're imagining, if you think it sounds bad raise them.

Fixing Int

Int currently provides more effect to all spells and mana at a 1:1 ratio (just like psyche). All the changes suggested so far do nothing but crap on Int which already was the only stat lacking secondary effects and value to every role. So int deserves some really cool buffs to make up for that right? Of course it does.

The most major new effect of INT is decreased charge time for spells.

The second is decreased cooldown of any ability with cooldown (bandaging, clades, etc) and faster sheath/unsheath/swap actions giving it some level of usefulness to all roles.

NEW SPELLS

Energy Blast (1-20 Ecumencial): A 10m low damage, mana efficient, no cast-time spell. This spell is designed to make PVE and 1v1s a bit more mage friendly by allowing mages to run and gun at short range. This spell is also the replacement for lesser heal in ecumenical.

Charge Weapon (20-40ish Ecumencial): Empowers the caster's weapon to deal a small amount of magical damage on it's next attack at the expense of mana. If the attack misses or is parried the spell has no effect but is expended. This spell has a quick cast time that does NOT require the user to sheath their weapon. This spell replaces purify and also goes a long way to make up for the fact that without healing int hybrids would be kind of garbage.

Noble Sacrifice(100 Life Magic): Self-cast only spell. Apply a 10-second debuff that cannot be removed by any means (but is reduced by the new psyche secondary) which deals 5 damage to the caster per second. Regain 33% of missing mana. Cannot be cast again while the debuff is active. This spell kind of helps compensate for the fact that a healing-focused build would be really bad at everything else as even int is debuffed by making a very elderly character. If they run out of mana they can regain it by dealing damage to themselves.

NEW SKILLS

Life Magic(Primary)- This is a school that focuses primarily on removing damage via healing. Lesser heal, greater heal, and purify are all transferred from ecumenical to this school. In addition to that foundation it picks up new healing over time, area of effect heals, etc. I won't detail them all except the one given above.
--Purifier(Secondary)- Life magic spells damage undead targets for 0-100% of their healing value.*
*Heals based on psyche no longer affect undead at all without this secondary.

Protection Magic(Primary)- This would be the second healer school and 2nd to be implemented. It would focus on proactively preventing damage rather than reactively healing damage already received. For instance, a spell that caps the damage you can take in a single hit or makes you receive a small amount of healing each time you are hit.

Battlemage(Secondary)- Cast the spell scribed onto your weapon (A new ability scribes have on the crafting end) while your weapon is unsheathed. 100-0% fizzle chance based on battlemage level. Works only for int-based spells. Child of Mental Offense. Meant to bring int hybrids to the status of a fully viable role along with energy blast and charge weapon despite how much better healing is generally. Note that this allows two spells for dual-wielders.
 
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Kaemik

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Post Reserved for a section on new magic roles this creates and how they interact with other roles. I'll add this section after I create the final topics on mounted builds and beast mastery builds.

As a quick summary. I like how this splits hybrids into battlemages (int hybrid) and paladins (psy hybrids) and actually makes both of those roles good. The current full-mage is still viable as even many current meta builds run high int + high psy. It also takes Sarducaaan from the 2nd most useless race in the game to potentially the best healer race. (Though sheevra is very strong on that front too, especially if they don't nerf their psy cap a bit as suggested)

I just really like how many options for builds splitting mages into healing and damage camps opens up. Of course it also fits with the general theme of more primaries as there are now more schools to train for a pure mage, and int only builds will need anatomy / psy only builds will need to pick up a new form of damage.
 
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Tzone

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biggest issue are mage spell fizzling right after you moved then stopped to cast and spells not working when you land them with all the animations going off. The other issue is just how jank the game is which leads shots that would land missing.


I almost for got this one but the spells literally blind the mage who is casting them. You cant see jack shit while charging a spell.

Just fix these few things and mages will be extremely good.
 

Kaemik

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biggest issue are mage spell fizzling right after you moved then stopped to cast and spells not working when you land them with all the animations going off. The other issue is just how jank the game is which leads shots that would land missing.


I almost for got this one but the spells literally blind the mage who is casting them. You cant see jack shit while charging a spell.

Just fix these few things and mages will be extremely good.

Yeah, I'm less going for a simple fix to mages. This is part of an ongoing series of overhauling all the roles so they fit together and work better as parts of a whole. I'm expecting 0% of this to get implemented. Mainly posting it because it's cathartic, and I like running through mental exercises as game development is something I've actually put some serious efforts into studying in my personal time.

Also posting it because I believe the game would be vastly improved if they read and implemented these so why not stick them out there on the off chance SV will see them and give them real consideration.

I think what you're saying is all good suggestions just giving this topic context.
 

Teknique

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Big no on the primaries. New spells are cool.

I couldn’t be any more upset at this community and their balance suggestions. We had such an amazing class diversity in the first game.

the intel breakpoints were a part of that. You could make a hybrid that had over 115 intel. Shit was a lot of fun. Now with the flat curve who fucking cares just make whatever you want. 90 int 120 int 5 int 1000 int Apache helicopter int, whatever do you the world is your oyster. Just don’t expect any different results or to have any reason to play any build but the fastest one.

moral of the story don’t fix what ain’t broke. We had a good model.
 

Kaemik

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Big no on the primaries. New spells are cool.

I couldn’t be any more upset at this community and their balance suggestions. We had such an amazing class diversity in the first game.

the intel breakpoints were a part of that. You could make a hybrid that had over 115 intel. Shit was a lot of fun. Now with the flat curve who fucking cares just make whatever you want. 90 int 120 int 5 int 1000 int Apache helicopter int, whatever do you the world is your oyster. Just don’t expect any different results or to have any reason to play any build but the fastest one.

moral of the story don’t fix what ain’t broke. We had a good model.

The issue with the previous int curve is that from 50 int to 100 int there was zero benefits to adding int beyond 50 more mana, which you would also get from 50 more psyche. Not only did that make 51-100 entirely useless. But that also meant if you said did 105 you'd have to invest 55 points to get those 5 points that are actually beneficial. That actually made certain builds that are now viable as hybrids/dex mages pretty crap at it.

I remember my suggestion at the time was that rather than a single flat curve they have multiple curves so that certain spell curves favor hybrids, some favor dex mages, and some are completely slanted toward fat mages. Obviously, everything would be powerful on the fat mage but for instance, lightning and outburst would work way better at 50 int than a thunderlash or flamestrike.

I still think that would be the best solution.
 

Teknique

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The issue with the previous int curve is that from 50 int to 100 int there was zero benefits to adding int beyond 50 more mana, which you would also get from 50 more psyche. Not only did that make 51-100 entirely useless. But that also meant if you said did 105 you'd have to invest 55 points to get those 5 points that are actually beneficial. That actually made certain builds that are now viable as hybrids/dex mages pretty crap at it.

I remember my suggestion at the time was that rather than a single flat curve they have multiple curves so that certain spell curves favor hybrids, some favor dex mages, and some are completely slanted toward fat mages. Obviously, everything would be powerful on the fat mage but for instance, lightning and outburst would work way better at 50 int than a thunderlash or flamestrike.

I still think that would be the best solution.
Allow me to be results focused only. In the first game we had Dex mage, fat mage, and bulging mage and some sub classes fat/bulging 60-80 str hybrid etc etc. Now we have one viable build fast as possible dex mage. It was a terrible disservice regardless of the intent.

Now to address the "issue" of 50-100 int being useless. Extra mana and skill points not withstanding it was a break point system. Was another breakpoint in the 50-100 range necessary? I didn't think so but they could have thrown one in there. I don't see what builds are now more viable, its all relative. If 50 int was the meta and I had that then I was even, if 100 is the meta now and I have that i'm still at parity its a net change of 0. Before I could have at least chose to rock more mana, now rocking 50 intel would be dumb as shit. If anything a human paladin with a much larger mana pool and same damage could have been MORE unique, right now its less. All that this change did was kill all diversity of int outside of the 90-100, especially punishing 60 str 115 intel builds. Those 55 points represented a barrier to entry and actually made the above builds I mentioned MORE unique. Now we have watered down mortal online 2 wenzy tier garbage.

As for the separate curve for spells. You have to keep in mind you're engaging the person with the worst track record of balancing ever when you ask for anything. In summary game is fucking dogshit.
 
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TLDR. I partially agree with your primary change. These skills should be completely removed from the game. Sprinting and swimming should just allowed by the game. It's so retarded that you have to put points into how to move. Btw, SV doesn't read these forums and doesn't care about your recommendations. The game will always be how Henrik wants it.
 

Bloodmasked

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My philosophy on game balance has always been, that there is no use balancing anything until the game is playable and bugs are ironed out.

And this philosophy also includes the ping problem, there is zero point trying to balance melee combat when like half of your playerbase isn't even on a competitive playing field simply because they have high ping.

in addition there is too many performance issues and lag, nodelines, etc. the render distance is so low you cant eventell if someone is mental projectile hitting you, can't see bow animations past 10 meters, can't see a mounted combat player's weapon swing, can't even see if a mage is casting something.

then there are some absurdly broken features that ruin combat like tamer's pets. and then spiritists being able to virtually stalk you and your group with basically zero counter or way of knowing they are there.

without even addressing these BROKEN mechanics and bugs, there is no hope to balance anything. note that magic is currently bugged and if you move while casting, there is a 50% or higher chance your spell does zero healing or zero damage. so what use is there talking about balance when spells don't even work in the first place. in addition, earthquake doesn't dismount, earthquake has no spell effect, fulmination does a damage sound effect even if its purified, and several/many other things im sure are bugged that i didnt mention or forgot to.

as someone mentioned above, spells do not register well and it is hard to land a spell. to the point you have to stand completely still to receive heals otherwise ur mage will miss by 1 pixel for seemingly no reason. this is partly the fault of the player's actual hitbox being like half the size of the hitbox which shows a player's name and guild tag, so even if your crosshair shows the player's name you can still miss the spell completely.

do i think henrik's "Polish" patch will address or solve anything, no, let alone rebalance stuff. because in the end of the day the map is too big and 300 ping is too hard to play with.

Also SV is extremely toxic to their own players by banning them from the discord for zero reason whatsoever, and deleting their forum posts too. The game will never succeed so long as they treat their customers so poorly.

and sad part is this is like a small fraction of issues with the game, that will likely never be fixed because SV is stubborn along with their new CM and non-existent 38 developers and non-existent QA team.
 
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