I still want a parry fix!!

[Emdash]

As the game gets closer to being fixed (lol), I want to continue to pine about parry. Again, ping normalization, etc, longer windows, ok, leave them. But punish people for turtling. Some dood on steam was saying Chiv2 combat is so leet and I was watching duels... it seems they have a guard break mechanic. I personally think more chip damage AND a guard break mechanic would be awesome. If they made it so that all dmg went thru parries at the rate blunt does, it might be ok + having your guard break after awhile of just sitting there and parrying.

There needs to be something that encourages people to move because the reason all of the vids look so slow is because people are moving slowly and focusing on parry. You can tank a 0 or a 3 by moving, effectively a dodge, and that's on any weapon, it's just that after you do that, there isn't really a chance to bang someone back without getting parried. Parry already gives you a fully charged swing, why should it also negate all damage? I cannot understand why people defend this mechanic other than it's what they are used to, or that they believe it's encouraging skill play. It's encouraging THAT play, but there is kind of a hard cap on skill that wouldn't be there if there were more dynamic parry mechanics.

So TLDR: I'd like MORE CHIP DMG thru parry. I'd be nice to get some kind of a wep bounce back stun or something when someone swings and hits you w/ a handle or for a 0 so you can pop them back. I'd also like a timed guard break mechanic so that you can whittle down someone's ability to block if they are overly defensive, something that replenishes over time. Many fighting games have this, and it looks like Chiv does as well?

Cuz it's true when you look at the face up mechanics vs a game like chiv or whatever, it's trash, but when you look at the movement of a game like Mordhau in duels, you realize that MO has potential to be an MMO with mechanics at least CLOSE to as good as the best parts of both of those games with just a few tweaks. Of course, lag will happen... that's why I think focusing so much on parries is bad, parries favor low ping players, positioning and swing arc do not. Should def be able to parry otherwise it'd be an all-out mash fest, but it shouldn't give you as much as it does.

 

[Panthalon]

Adding feint would be good as well

 

[Emdash]

Adding feint would be good as well

It would, but I dunno how it would work, per se. The things I am asking for could easily be put into the game. Esp the chip dmg and the guard break.

 

[Kinto]

Adding feint would be good as well

I'm a bit confused because I was under the impression that feinting already existed as an action in the current game with CTRL as the default key. Are we suggesting something different or a reworked feint mechanic?

 

[Panthalon]

I'm a bit confused because I was under the impression that feinting already existed as an action in the current game with CTRL as the default key. Are we suggesting something different or a reworked feint mechanic?

Oh well, I haven't notice it and if it's in game- that's awesome! Can't check this ingame tho cause I'm still in queue

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Parry encourages being european and having under 250ms

 

[Sain]

Feint is a player action.

You can use ctrl to cancel your strike. Or just block to cancel your strike.

So feint is starting an attack in a direction, cancel it (however how) and attacking an other direction.
Feint is anyway you can miss-lead your opponent about when, where and how you attack, so jumping around count as feint.

-Your guard break when your stamina is exhausted from blocking.

I am totally against a surefire guard break action, or push or kick because its become too easy.

Already, the attacker have initiative of attack and defender have to react correctly to block you, the defender take a risk here, for potential gain at the next strike.

If damage come partly through anyway, its one-sided, then defender would better just mindlessly attack back and both side will be damaged in a berserk match.


What i would like to suggest thought, is for the force to count in parry chance. Because I don't like a parry if the character don't have the force parry. Add into that a size bonus for parry effectiveness/chipping damage through parry. So a Strength check between the two player to see if the defender effectively parry or get his arm crushed under the force, 10 strength mage beware.

 

[Emdash]

Feint is a player action.

You can use ctrl to cancel your strike. Or just block to cancel your strike.

So feint is starting an attack in a direction, cancel it (however how) and attacking an other direction.
Feint is anyway you can miss-lead your opponent about when, where and how you attack, so jumping around count as feint.

-Your guard break when your stamina is exhausted from blocking.

I am totally against a surefire guard break action, or push or kick because its become too easy.

Already, the attacker have initiative of attack and defender have to react correctly to block you, the defender take a risk here, for potential gain at the next strike.

If damage come partly through anyway, its one-sided, then defender would better just mindlessly attack back and both side will be damaged in a berserk match.


What i would like to suggest thought, is for the force to count in parry chance. Because I don't like a parry if the character don't have the force parry. Add into that a size bonus for parry effectiveness/chipping damage through parry. So a Strength check between the two player to see if the defender effectively parry or get his arm crushed under the force, 10 strength mage beware.

bump, but you know how much you have to pump parry w/ 100 block to stam out ? lol A push or kick is easy, you're right, but guard break is not a push or kick, a guard break is your guard having its own stamina that goes down with each hit. So imagine it refills 1 bar a second for 10 bars, each hit you take takes away two bars, something like that.

You're dead wrong about the offensive player being at an advantage. A good player fighting two people will actually parry one player and attack the other with his charged hit haha. That's not favoring the aggressor.

Chip damage, same idea, people should have to move. I have outlined that there are many ways BY MOVING that you can significantly reduce damage, sometimes to 0 without even parrying. You just have to get into the swing arc the right way. This encourages a lot more skill play than a directional parry. Again, if it was directional based on where you were hitting and not based on which direction the attack was charged, it would be a bit different.

However, as you want these parry fixes to work on Magi, using strength as a governor, why not make it so that armor and weapon do, instead? A blunt wep chips thru parry, but why should that be the only one? It makes SCIENCE sense, but for balance, it does not.

Do you think that in warfare that people were playing defensively? haha. Obviously they were blocking FOR THEIR LIFE, but they were trying to advance. They weren't like... I'm gonna sit here and wait to see what he does so I can counter and hit him back. They would def be READY to block if something came at them (at the risk of DEATH), but they would be looking for an opening to attack. The way Mortal is with charged swings and parries, that's not how it works. There will be an eventual opening, but anything will happen eventually. He who strikes first it not really rewarded, the second attack is going to come back way faster than your charged swing. The only thing it rewards you with is the ability to KNOW they are going to parry and probably try to strike back, so in that way you define their actions, and I tried to play that way (with about as much success as I could have, maybe hitting people 2 or 3 times in the best case. Sometimes I'd win if my wep was strong and they got flustered), but if you add in some chip damage, a meter they can see decreasing with each parry, then you have actually applied pressure on them, even though they have negated damage AND get a fully charged swing to use as they wish, still.

Edit: and yea feint is cool but an actual feint move like fake left strike right would be more fitting. As it is, you can only get in a minicharge swing.

 

[Sain]

I don't understand why you are blocked when attacking, you can feint when attacking to avoid being blocked.

 

[Emdash]

I don't understand why you are blocked when attacking, you can feint when attacking to avoid being blocked.

You'll stam out faster feinting than you will pumping parry haha. Show me a vid of a player who is not getting parried because of their elite feint work.

Edit: are you saying keep feinting until you cannot be blocked? hm. Interesting. I still think you'll stam out first tho. Imagine that in real life... he pulls back, NO, FEINT, THE DEFENDER BLOCKS... oh he goes LEFT, NO, FEINT, THE DEFENDER BLOCKS. In reality, that's even more wack. It's like fighting with invisible swords.

Edit2: also, what's your ping?

Edit3: (ONE MO) also, you can parry people after they release their swing haha.

 

[Kinto]

So if I'm understanding this topic correctly, it seems that the general subject is that the parry mechanic is too strong?

If so, I disagree.

By successfully reading an opponent and putting in a specific input to match the opponents attack, the player is rewarded with the chance to counter attack within the next 2.5 seconds for 120% damage that the player does not have to charge. This gives the player a tool to be used for pressure and even mind games.

Suggesting that the parries be nerfed only proves to make outnumbered fights harder giving increased power to bigger groups to all focus on one person without any fear of what they could do to them. This will further incentivize zerg gameplay and further remove any advantages a smaller group would have against the larger. At least currently in an outnumbered situation, you have to be careful to not feed your opponent a parry as they can immediately target switch and punish someone who wasn't expecting it.

On top of this, the chip damage you ask for technically does exist if you play to your mind games correctly. You can simply hold a charged attack and wait 2 seconds for their parry window to drop to a block in which they do take chip damage no matter the weapon. Once they catch on to this, you have now entered the mind game territory where you have many options from here. Combining this with feints and spins gives you many opportunities to get behind an opponents parry or defense.

You'll stam out faster feinting than you will pumping parry haha. Show me a vid of a player who is not getting parried because of their elite feint work.

So to be fair, what your words are suggesting is that it's impossible to get past someone who just wants to parry when that's obviously not the case else no one would ever die in this game. The idea that I believe you're intending to get across is that experienced players will never get hit.

To combat this claim, here is a video with players who I believe the community would agree are fairly experienced players. The very first clip in that video shows that you can eventually whittle down someone who is proficient in parrying.

In addition, I do have some of my own clips as proof that feinting and spinning can bypass people who are proficient at parrying.

Something I will agree with though is that with heavier weapons, you will generally consume more stamina swinging/feinting a weapon over parrying. In regards to this, I wouldn't be against seeing stamina tweaks as improvements to balance parry vs feinting. Would definitely take some brainstorming to get those values in a good spot, but what they have now is a good base starting point.