How To Fix The Reputation/Murder System

Kaemik

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Nov 28, 2020
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This is as simple as adjusting values if the system seems unbalanced once we've had a chance to try it. Increase/decrease the penalty for certain crimes. Increase/decrease max and min rep values. Increase/decrease how hard it is to grind rep (I've already heard it's easier now than they envision it being longterm).

If grinding max rep and then craping on said max rep is considered an easy abuse of a system then the problem isn't with the system but simply the numbers. That's a VERY simple fix.
 

Teknique

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Jun 15, 2020
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Values aside, this could happen as the only way someone turns red with a faction would be to drop below 0, no? Thus I grind to 10000 rep, and go on a killing spree while remaining apart of my faction until I hit 0. Am I missing something?
That isn't really any different to the way that it is now since murdercounts don't mean much except being able to rez.
 

Woody

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Apr 4, 2021
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This is as simple as adjusting values if the system seems unbalanced once we've had a chance to try it. Increase/decrease the penalty for certain crimes. Increase/decrease max and min rep values. Increase/decrease how hard it is to grind rep (I've already heard it's easier now than they envision it being longterm).

If grinding max rep and then craping on said max rep is considered an easy abuse of a system then the problem isn't with the system but simply the numbers. That's a VERY simple fix.

The problem with this logic is that it's not addressing the root problem, that if something can be abused or used to "game" a mechanic, it will be. A reputation system addresses the core mechanic of belonging to specific factions, nations etc and hopefully ties neatly into many of the empire building, TC systems etc. that are planned. But you still need a system outside of this that addresses two things:

1) Actions that negatively impact another player's experience, needs to carry with it a significantly high penalty that is felt immediately. (Reputation systems would not allow for this as they are a slow burn - grind up rep, slippery slope lose rep)

2) We assume all factions treat random murder, hostile actions etc. the same. (outside of other established mechanics such as TC, Guild politics etc) no matter the reputation of the individual.

I'm not saying that the current iteration of the murder/rep system is good or doesn't need changing. That said, the two pronged approach of a murder/reputation combination does address the right problems - e.g. that there needs to be immediately felt consequences to someone's actions that impact on another player's experience (murder counts), but also that there needs to be consideration given over the long term as to which nation you wish to belong to (reputation) and reward a player for participating thoughtfully.

As such, I don't agree with this thread's suggestion that reputation alone is the silver bullet for the problem.

EDIT: I should add @Kaemik, I do think your reputation suggestions are good and does allow for greater control and impact on reputation based on the actions one takes against an individual, so I agree with the post on that note. I don't think limiting the amount of reputation loss from a single player capped at 100 every 5 minutes is necessary though (timers in multiplayer games should be avoided where possible due to the performance impact of tracking them across many players and in this case, each player to many players)
 
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Kaemik

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No system can ever be perfect and any system like this is just going to be stab at the best they can think of. I've played A LOT of games with various PvP and reputation systems over the years and there is on universal truth. They will always be abused. If you murder someone, murder their horse, murder their remount and then loot their corpse I don't think that need carry a penalty higher than a single murder count. Nor if they come back and fight you again within the next 5 minutes.

Let's put this in context: The person doing the murdering is you, and the person you're murdering is a mounted build with a spare mount that's been following you around and looting your kills for the past 20 minutes. Or shield bashing you away from resource nodes / extraction devices / into the water while you try to fish.
 
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Jatix

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Sep 30, 2020
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That said, the two pronged approach of a murder/reputation combination does address the right problems - e.g. that there needs to be immediately felt consequences to someone's actions that impact on another player's experience (murder counts), but also that there needs to be consideration given over the long term as to which nation you wish to belong to (reputation) and reward a player for participating thoughtfully.
I don't get why we need a bad murdercount system tho, when we can just have a good reputation system. The two pronged system only conflicts with itself. The guards will protect you because your favor there is good from not doing crime there. But the priest wont res you so you have to res far away and walk to town. Makes no sense.
 

Woody

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Apr 4, 2021
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I don't get why we need a bad murdercount system tho, when we can just have a good reputation system. The two pronged system only conflicts with itself. The guards will protect you because your favor there is good from not doing crime there. But the priest wont res you so you have to res far away and walk to town. Makes no sense.

I appreciate that and do acknowledge that it needs work. I've suggested an alternative to the MC system while taking into account the changes this thread implies with regards to reputation and blue/red regional status here: https://mortalonline2.com/forums/threads/soul-wound-a-murder-count-alternative.2515/
 

ValhallaRider

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May 28, 2021
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Murderers/griefers MUST suffer consequences I dont mind how but they def should.

You'd better play a battle royale game you fancy bunch of bloody hungry nerds...
 

Tzone

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May 16, 2021
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PvP is griefing ? How would you have PvP if OWPvP was punished. The main point of the game is PvP.
 

ValhallaRider

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May 28, 2021
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PvP is griefing ? How would you have PvP if OWPvP was punished. The main point of the game is PvP.

sorry to break it to you, but yea jumping on someone choping trees/mining rocks/collecting fruits/farming npcs is griefing and its no pvp. If you want to murder anyone on sight without suffering consequences then i dont know man go play COD/fornite or whatever game that allows that butchery you fancy