Economy - material > endproduct prices

Stundorn

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Jul 18, 2021
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Beside that economy is already imbalanced in some ways, why do materials sell for more gold than endproducts?
If i craft something and consider the material prices, i need to sell it for much higher prices than people are willing to pay.
It would be more profitable to sell the materials than the endproducts i can craft with that.
i think this is bad and makes crafting professions less worthy.
You better invest in gathering and selling raw materials?
What is your opinion about that?
Is it because there's no need in craftsmen, because almost everyone has an alt or two plus friends and is fully self sustainable regarding crafting?
 
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ArcaneConsular

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Oct 27, 2021
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yeah I said this a long time ago and its still true. Have said it many times. The economy is material based not item based. Because it's super easy for everyone to get max level in crafting. So everyone just buys materials and crafts their own weapons and armor. It's easier. Cheaper. Takes up less space. etc. Not to mention it's super easy to poop out 100x crapite bows and such. Stuff is just too cheap and easy to make besides the mega-rare mats. The only stuff that sells well on the AH are ones the require rare books to make that people don't want to spend the money of getting
 

Banespike

Active member
Apr 14, 2021
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Beside that economy is already imbalanced in some ways, why do materials sell for more gold than endproducts?
If i craft something and consider the material prices, i need to sell it for much higher prices than people are willing to pay.
It would be more profitable to sell the materials than the endproducts i can craft with that.
i think this is bad and makes crafting professions less worthy.
You better invest in gathering and selling raw materials?
What is your opinion about that?
Is it because there's no need in craftsmen, because almost everyone has an alt or two plus friends and is fully self sustainable regarding crafting?
When I played other mmos it was the same, raw mats are more expensive then the product by itself.
it’s not a mortal online 2 thing
 
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Albanjo Dravae

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Dec 20, 2021
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Beside that economy is already imbalanced in some ways, why do materials sell for more gold than endproducts?
If i craft something and consider the material prices, i need to sell it for much higher prices than people are willing to pay.
It would be more profitable to sell the materials than the endproducts i can craft with that.
i think this is bad and makes crafting professions less worthy.
You better invest in gathering and selling raw materials?
What is your opinion about that?
Is it because there's no need in craftsmen, because almost everyone has an alt or two plus friends and is fully self sustainable regarding crafting?

This means the market is stabilizing to it's supply and demand. Pre-processed materials are valued higher due to it's learning - skill up potential, there will be more demand aslong as theres people wanting to train stuff, which we could say it will allways be the case aslong as theres people playing.

Being just a handful of crafting classes that could use/require processed materials with the current production model means processed materials will continue to drop value till more specialized crafting classes arrive or the current ones are reworked. Another problematic crafting related is the number of things you can do with these extracted materials, they currently have so little uses its expected players produce and stockpile it enough to decrease its value.

You are right tho, multi-account is a pay to win model that hinders the current economic system, making the production of players willing to access multi-accounts proportional to the amount of characters they have processing-gathering.
The advantages of accessing different areas simoultaneously (or not) are clear. And now that theres appliances to process stone theres gonna be a town decompression in the more grind-focused areas of the map making end-extracted materials to drop value even more.

Then, the duped elephant in the room. Theres so much duped shit right now, people made stacks of gold and materials already, the shady ones that didn't dupe payed for speed hacks and farmed all dungeons for selling shit for real money. It's mind blowing that if selling gold is ilegal they are not tracking-banning certain gold selling websites.
Not adressing these problematics is exacly what happened in MO1 and the result was that many people had inmense amounts of materials while newbies were collecting leather, making metals the average competitive material for pvp resulting in a clear disadvantage for the people learning the game.

Can't control what people stash and produces and how that decreases the value of items but SV could hire a person or a team to re-design the economic system and re-balance crafting. It would be ideal to have that with more crafting classes that should make PVE a little more fun and challenging instead of pure tedium.

Some people think the game needs more gold sink features to drain some of the stashed shit, i don't think thats the right approach, i think SV really needs to work on fixing the current crafting classes and adding more. Sadly i don't see that in the horizon, cooking is in really bad shape, alchemy is really bad without quality of life features, theres no combining, all the mats that should be used in those clases end up being placeholders.

Crafting classes should be organic and require eachother to create interaction. Most crafting classes except extraction-craft are completly isolated from eachother. For example fishing, one would think fishes could have different uses for different crafting classes yet its not the case. imagine cooking certain fish meat with other materials could create a fine meal that would have increased nutritional values but no, raw fish meat is better than anything you could cook, it could be one exception to the system (why not) but it actually defeats the purpose of cooking.

Why things like this happen, because SV chooses to introduce half baked content that is completly isolated from other systems, they think those crafting classes are fantastic and need nothing else. Think again, pve and crafting are poop.
 
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Albanjo Dravae

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2021
1,082
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yeah I said this a long time ago and its still true. Have said it many times. The economy is material based not item based. Because it's super easy for everyone to get max level in crafting. So everyone just buys materials and crafts their own weapons and armor. It's easier. Cheaper. Takes up less space. etc. Not to mention it's super easy to poop out 100x crapite bows and such. Stuff is just too cheap and easy to make besides the mega-rare mats. The only stuff that sells well on the AH are ones the require rare books to make that people don't want to spend the money of getting
Materials are items, but if you refer to crafted items are worth less than materials yes, its understandable that the skilling up" value is higher than the actual crafting value because everyone and their mom is an armor/weapon crafter.

It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand whats going on with mortal's economy XD
 

Banespike

Active member
Apr 14, 2021
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a stack of steel can be a weapon or a armor of your coice. I think that’s it (+ lore skillups ofc) buy orders won’t change anything, but maybe legendarys will
 

actetto

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Apr 21, 2022
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Crafting is economically worthless in Mortal because there is no time cost, and no risk of loss. Even in games where you can't hit max-skill crafting in 5 minutes, if all you do is click a button to craft instantly its going to be worthless quickly.

If someone goes out and gathers mats, it can take a long time, and they risk losing whatever they bring to do it. So that's worth some gold. If someone takes those mats and clicks a button to turn it into armor in 15 total seconds, what could that possible be worth in comparison to the gathering?

There has to be something that the crafter is spending his time on, like the gatherers.
Spit balling some possible solutions:
-"High quality" crafting which takes a long time to perform, like 1 hour for a set of armor.
-Some sort of "crafting license" to use workstations where you gotta leave the city, put on some gear, and risk PK
-Crafting skills degrade and you gotta keep training them up (yuk).
 
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grendel

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Jun 13, 2020
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Beside that economy is already imbalanced in some ways, why do materials sell for more gold than endproducts?
If i craft something and consider the material prices, i need to sell it for much higher prices than people are willing to pay.
It would be more profitable to sell the materials than the endproducts i can craft with that.
i think this is bad and makes crafting professions less worthy.
You better invest in gathering and selling raw materials?
What is your opinion about that?
Is it because there's no need in craftsmen, because almost everyone has an alt or two plus friends and is fully self sustainable regarding crafting?
I travel to buy mats cheap, and rarely farm for anything except steel(or if I feel like farming). There are big differences in mat prices from town to town.
 

Jackdstripper

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Jan 8, 2021
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Because of the time involved.

It takes a shit load of time to mine ore, and make into metals. Its boring and tedious and nobody ever wants to do it.

Everyone instead makes armour/weapon smith and crafts things in 2 minutes.

So we always end up having a lot of crafters and not very many slag haulers. Crafters need the material from slag haulers, so materials become expensive.


If there were many more miners/slag haulers than crafters, then things would be different.
 

Sertorius

New member
Mar 22, 2022
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An assessment of the economic development at the present time must not forget the fact that we are currently still playing with a "peace economy".

Once we have real wars, when players are knocked out more often on foreign territory (Territory Control), then the demand for raw materials and goods will certainly increase.
So I wouldn't make any quick changes to the economic system now, but first wait for the game to normalize (war).


Of course, every alt-account contributes to the fact that individual players will eventually be completely independent in many areas of material procurement and processing. Then we finally have "New World" conditions. :sick:


Otherwise, a look at EvE online could also be helpful, where production processes also take different amounts of time depending on the quantity and article.
The fact that a single craftsman can equip an entire army in less than 5 minutes if he has the necessary resources does not make much sense.
 
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Jatix

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Sep 30, 2020
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Whats funny is people always said the shitty 1 character slot will help the economy because everyone cant craft or some BS. But MO1 had a significantly better eco because you had to waste a slot you would have used on a fighter, on a crafter. And another on a miner and another on armorer, etc so most people just had fighters. MO2 everyone can have crafting for free. And can even fit multiple.
 

kiwiitis

Member
Dec 26, 2020
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jackstripper said It takes a shit load of time to mine ore, and make into metals. Its boring and tedious and nobody ever wants to do it.

Each to there own I like it as well as woodcutting:) Slowly building up gold reserves.

Regards Gramps
 

yurilai

New member
Feb 27, 2022
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Beside that economy is already imbalanced in some ways, why do materials sell for more gold than endproducts?
If i craft something and consider the material prices, i need to sell it for much higher prices than people are willing to pay.
It would be more profitable to sell the materials than the endproducts i can craft with that.
i think this is bad and makes crafting professions less worthy.
You better invest in gathering and selling raw materials?
What is your opinion about that?
Is it because there's no need in craftsmen, because almost everyone has an alt or two plus friends and is fully self sustainable regarding crafting?
hey mr . can u give exmaple of with material and endproducts ?

edit : i also dont think that economy can be well balanced . unless there is like a central bank ya know ? or having tools to regulate da econ
 

Kaemik

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2020
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Beside that economy is already imbalanced in some ways, why do materials sell for more gold than endproducts?
If i craft something and consider the material prices, i need to sell it for much higher prices than people are willing to pay.
It would be more profitable to sell the materials than the endproducts i can craft with that.
i think this is bad and makes crafting professions less worthy.
You better invest in gathering and selling raw materials?
What is your opinion about that?
Is it because there's no need in craftsmen, because almost everyone has an alt or two plus friends and is fully self sustainable regarding crafting?

This a problem in every MMO but Wurm Online for the most part because every MMO but Wurm Online lacks a real crafting system. They have glorified gathering systems.

Standard MMO "Crafting" (Including MO2)

Gather Item (Moderate to Considerable Timesink) > Create Item (Mere Seconds of User Input) > Finished Item

Wurm Online Crafting:

Gather Resources (Moderate to Considerable Timesink) > Create Base Version of Item (Short to Considerable Timesink Depending on Difficulty of Assembly) > Improve Item to Desired Quality (Moderate to Insanely Long Timesink Depending Upon Desired Quality)

I'm sure you can see why in Wurm Online, finished products are not worth less than the base materials. Also, materials aren't burnt at the altar of crafting grinding in huge quantities because grinding is best done by improvement. Which just takes a good toolset and trace quantities of materials compared to making thousands of the same item.

But here, and most MMOs... why pay people for seconds worth of work? Most larger guilds have all the crafters they need so there is no point outsourcing any of the work when a guild crafter fed the proper resources can make hundreds of items in minutes. Like, if you could take the ingredients out of your fridge, wave your hands around for a few seconds, and get a 5 star meal, would you ever go out to eat? Time investment is what adds value.

MO2 adds a bit more depth with resources but it's really not that hard to learn the best recipes for most crafts. I don't think hours of work by a highly skilled crafter per item will work for MO2 as it does for Wurm but I don't think 2 seconds per item frankly works for anyone who actually enjoys crafting any more than PVErs would enjoy running a dungeon in 2 seconds. Somewhere between those two extremes would be nice.
 
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Jatix

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Sep 30, 2020
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The only reason you could sell things for more than the material cost in MO1 was that 95% of players couldn't craft so they needed to buy your stuff. At least random players in town who needed to buy gear and didnt have a guild mate to craft for them. Now everyone can fit some skilling, to possibly make weapons armor or bows, and can fit a mix of them in one build. And if they cant make what they need they may know someone who can.
 
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