Do not Tie Clade Gifts to things like farming Risars.

KermyWormy

Well-known member
May 29, 2020
270
288
63
California
In what world does it make sense to tie in Clade gift experience and therefore basically mandatory character development to farming a dungeon? This makes no sense to me in a game like Mortal, especially as related to every other system we have in game. Having such a requirement is so contrary to the heart of the game I can't even begin to understand why this idea wasn't shut down in house before it was bothered with developing.

Were there plenty of unique and powerful things hidden in dungeons in the old game? Absolutely, and those unique things created a reason to do them obviously. But we had options. These scrolls, or valuable vendor trade ins etc could be farmed by those who enjoyed that particular aspect of the game, and If I wanted those rewards as someone who didn't want to do them I could buy them from one of those players. Not only were there options to the same end, but these were not mandatory things. I sought them out if it was something I wanted to do.

Now SV has gone and tied integral aspects of character progression; stats, movement, damage, HP, skill bonuses, reputation, racial abilities, important buffs....they've tied it all to doing some Dungeon, mindlessly farming random mobs that for some inexplicable reason help me increase my stats and abilities....There's no mechanical logic here, no lore friendly explanation, and it just reeks of another short sighted addition to the game that is actually poisonous.

Why are we adding idiotic chores and roadblocks for basic character progression here? Why is it NECESSARY for me to farm this dungeon to develop my character!?

Look, I understand they want to iterate on the old game, they should be doing that, I've said many times it's foolish to just copy/paste everything into the new game because there were so many areas that needed to be improved and iterated on. I think Clade gifts can be another interesting layer to that, but do not tie this system to something like dungeon farming... "A True Open World Experience..." "The Most hardcore MMORPG".....where you must grind risars in a dungeon to cap your stats and abilities to then go and do the thing you really want to do in game....Screw that.

What game are we playing? This is not Mortal, it's something else. It's counter to the heart of what this game is supposed to be. Where are my sandbox options? Why is there only one path here?
 

Rudakov

Member
May 31, 2020
87
85
18
In what world does it make sense to tie in Clade gift experience and therefore basically mandatory character development to farming a dungeon? This makes no sense to me in a game like Mortal, especially as related to every other system we have in game. Having such a requirement is so contrary to the heart of the game I can't even begin to understand why this idea wasn't shut down in house before it was bothered with developing.

Were there plenty of unique and powerful things hidden in dungeons in the old game? Absolutely, and those unique things created a reason to do them obviously. But we had options. These scrolls, or valuable vendor trade ins etc could be farmed by those who enjoyed that particular aspect of the game, and If I wanted those rewards as someone who didn't want to do them I could buy them from one of those players. Not only were there options to the same end, but these were not mandatory things. I sought them out if it was something I wanted to do.

Now SV has gone and tied integral aspects of character progression; stats, movement, damage, HP, skill bonuses, reputation, racial abilities, important buffs....they've tied it all to doing some Dungeon, mindlessly farming random mobs that for some inexplicable reason help me increase my stats and abilities....There's no mechanical logic here, no lore friendly explanation, and it just reeks of another short sighted addition to the game that is actually poisonous.

Why are we adding idiotic chores and roadblocks for basic character progression here? Why is it NECESSARY for me to farm this dungeon to develop my character!?

Look, I understand they want to iterate on the old game, they should be doing that, I've said many times it's foolish to just copy/paste everything into the new game because there were so many areas that needed to be improved and iterated on. I think Clade gifts can be another interesting layer to that, but do not tie this system to something like dungeon farming... "A True Open World Experience..." "The Most hardcore MMORPG".....where you must grind risars in a dungeon to cap your stats and abilities to then go and do the thing you really want to do in game....Screw that.

What game are we playing? This is not Mortal, it's something else. It's counter to the heart of what this game is supposed to be. Where are my sandbox options? Why is there only one path here?
criticizing , offer
 

barcode

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2020
370
352
63
supposedly the first 'phase' of mo2 will involve the threat of a risar invasion. presumably then there will be risar camps scattered all over. if this were the case (you were not required to go to risaropolis to farm but could do so from any number of random camps) would that improve the situation? perhaps its an issue with the lack of other types of enemies to kill and the clade xp would come from any of the more difficult ones.

i have a lot of issues with the clade gift system in general (and the fact that we're now tied down on a single toon doesnt help this at all), i'll wait to lay into the design too much until the rest of the gifts are put in but the gifts as they are now seem to be rather haphazard (the trees are shallow, you get enough points to pick 2/3 of the gifts, the trees themselves dont follow any kind of sensible progression, etc).

as it stands now this just makes it gk online.

-barcode
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rhias and Zbuciorn

Skydancer

Active member
May 28, 2020
107
150
43
Killing risars is one way to earn gift points, at this point in time. I doubt it will be the only way. That said, I fail to see how killing anything relates to unlocking your genetic potential. I don't have the will or patience to farm risars in beta to experiment with gifts anyway so I shouldn't complain(but I will).

My criticism so far is that these are racial genetic inheritance, and any tasks that might be required to unlock this potential all seem arbitrary for something we are apparently born with. I'm expecting some decent lore explaining the concept, and why our characters have seemingly lost their genetic potential and have to regain it via actions/divine intervention/bestowed by some random npc or whatever it ends up being in the live game.
 

KermyWormy

Well-known member
May 29, 2020
270
288
63
California
I've been chewing on this for a bit now and I at least have an alternative.

These are Clade gifts right? These are skills or attributes that are in general somehow unique to the heritage of our character and his or her bloodline....a child of violent war crimes...3rd generation inbred oligarch of the Empire, a slave torn from their homeland and raised under foreign rule indoctrinated by this colonizing power etc. etc. This all ties back to heritage...so why not lean into that in the way we explore and take part in this new system?

Skydancer alluded to this above, and I agree, there is no logical connection between the development of these skills and killing some random mob somewhere...it's disconnected, illogical, and I maintain it is counter to the core design vision this game once had.

Did you know the Lore in this game world is actually really cool and interesting? If you only judged by what is in game tho you would never know it. It's almost as if SV goes out of their way to hide this unique and cool aspect of their game from us. They avoid it for whatever reason, even tho the story of the world we live in while we're playing this game could be such a huge factor in the enjoyment of this game world for a lot of people.

What I am proposing is tying these glade gifts into the Lore of the game world in such a way that we unlock them as we learn or do things which help explain who we are in this world, or how we got here, or what is our higher purpose? Thursar Clade gift unlocks could help explain what was unfolding in this violent world that led to their conception, maybe it could shed some light on the various struggles they have just trying to fit in in this "modern" society. The different human bloodlines could revolve around explaining why Kallards, or Sarducaans, are living away from their homeland and playing refugee in this racist empire. Sidioans could explore their mysterious history in service to the Shinarians and the interesting aspects of their own culture and how it relates to living in Myrland. If you're an Alvarin...why did you leave Lykia or wherever you came from...why leave the lush jungles and your own ways and people to live amongst these animals.......I mean maybe.......as crazy as it sounds....maybe we could learn more about all these places and all these different people and where they came from and how they ended up mixing it up and murdering eachother in Myrland? A novel thought to have some roleplay and lore in our "roleplaying game"

So tie your heritage system to things relating to heritage...make it meaningful to unlock them in a way that is thoughtful. It doesn't have to be necessarily difficult, it should not be expensive, it should be available to anyone trying to mold and shape their character and their place in this world. Take this new iteration of character design of Clade gifts and tie it to another aspect of your game which has been so far painfully ignored but could actually be a very hidden strength...the lore....get some people who know how to write to develop some background characters and some simple storylines which can help to enrich our understanding of this world we live in, and then use it as the vehicle to unlock our characters full potential via this better understanding of our ancestry and place in this world.
 

Godkin Veratas

Active member
Jul 3, 2020
120
131
43
I really don’t think this was anything other than beta content and a reason to play for more than 2 seconds
Hard to believe, but yeah, it’s the design. They are developing “team experience” systems for farming mobs so mages can heal bot to “level up”. Hopefully they don't forget the all important Torch Bearer role in handing out XP.

Future might include a way for “crafters” to donate “stuff to the war effort”. What is a crafter in this current build? The Game design is becoming schizophrenic.

I've been chewing on this for a bit now and I at least have an alternative.

These are Clade gifts right? These are skills or attributes that are in general somehow unique to the heritage of our character and his or her bloodline....a child of violent war crimes...3rd generation inbred oligarch of the Empire, a slave torn from their homeland and raised under foreign rule indoctrinated by this colonizing power etc. etc. This all ties back to heritage...so why not lean into that in the way we explore and take part in this new system?

Skydancer alluded to this above, and I agree, there is no logical connection between the development of these skills and killing some random mob somewhere...it's disconnected, illogical, and I maintain it is counter to the core design vision this game once had.

Did you know the Lore in this game world is actually really cool and interesting? If you only judged by what is in game tho you would never know it. It's almost as if SV goes out of their way to hide this unique and cool aspect of their game from us. They avoid it for whatever reason, even tho the story of the world we live in while we're playing this game could be such a huge factor in the enjoyment of this game world for a lot of people.

What I am proposing is tying these glade gifts into the Lore of the game world in such a way that we unlock them as we learn or do things which help explain who we are in this world, or how we got here, or what is our higher purpose? Thursar Clade gift unlocks could help explain what was unfolding in this violent world that led to their conception, maybe it could shed some light on the various struggles they have just trying to fit in in this "modern" society. The different human bloodlines could revolve around explaining why Kallards, or Sarducaans, are living away from their homeland and playing refugee in this racist empire. Sidioans could explore their mysterious history in service to the Shinarians and the interesting aspects of their own culture and how it relates to living in Myrland. If you're an Alvarin...why did you leave Lykia or wherever you came from...why leave the lush jungles and your own ways and people to live amongst these animals.......I mean maybe.......as crazy as it sounds....maybe we could learn more about all these places and all these different people and where they came from and how they ended up mixing it up and murdering eachother in Myrland? A novel thought to have some roleplay and lore in our "roleplaying game"

So tie your heritage system to things relating to heritage...make it meaningful to unlock them in a way that is thoughtful. It doesn't have to be necessarily difficult, it should not be expensive, it should be available to anyone trying to mold and shape their character and their place in this world. Take this new iteration of character design of Clade gifts and tie it to another aspect of your game which has been so far painfully ignored but could actually be a very hidden strength...the lore....get some people who know how to write to develop some background characters and some simple storylines which can help to enrich our understanding of this world we live in, and then use it as the vehicle to unlock our characters full potential via this better understanding of our ancestry and place in this world.
Solid ideas, tied to underdeveloped lore. Items that could be consumed or crafted would be more sandbox. Let’s get better lore in a solid sandbox, not some low budget theme park, some gypsy carnival version of Blizzard World from 2006. I watched Henrik on the livestream. He’s happy with it.
 
Last edited:

Skydancer

Active member
May 28, 2020
107
150
43
Hard to believe, but yeah, it’s the design. They are developing “team experience” systems for farming mobs so mages can heal bot to “level up”. Hopefully they don't forget the all important Torch Bearer role in handing out XP.

Future might include a way for “crafters” to donate “stuff to the war effort”. What is a crafter in this current build? The Game design is becoming schizophrenic.


Solid ideas, tied to underdeveloped lore. Items that could be consumed or crafted would be more sandbox. Let’s get better lore in a solid sandbox, not some low budget theme park, some gypsy carnival version of Blizzard World from 2006. I watched Henrik on the livestream. He’s happy with it.

Lets hope Mats hasn't been casting pearls before swine then
 
  • Like
Reactions: Godkin Veratas

lord_yoshi

Member
Oct 3, 2020
86
92
18
You guys are acting like you're just going to ignore PvE entirely, and the only thread suggestions past worthless whining are to tie clade progression to some kind of story mode or to craft or consume specific items, both of which would probably involve lots of PvE. It really seems like you don't have a clue about what you want.
 

Xunila

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
734
848
93
Germany
I got about 2 1/2 clade gift points after killing a Risar yesterday. The patch notes tell about factor 100x compared to the release. This means, one player has to kill about 40 Risar to get one clade gift point. With 20 points maximum one has to kill about 800 Risar. This will take some time. And count this for each player.

In my opinion it's pretty clear that killing Risar is only one option to earn those points. Probably other dungeons like the Sator dungeon or world bosses like Greater Kimuru can be used, too. But I agree, we also need non-group-actions to earn clade points.
 

Handsome Young Man

Well-known member
Jun 13, 2020
656
490
93
When they add something meaningful or fix something important I'll start caring more.

Sucks to know the only enjoyment I'll probably get from this game is upsetting people.
 

Godkin Veratas

Active member
Jul 3, 2020
120
131
43
I got about 2 1/2 clade gift points after killing a Risar yesterday. The patch notes tell about factor 100x compared to the release. This means, one player has to kill about 40 Risar to get one clade gift point. With 20 points maximum one has to kill about 800 Risar. This will take some time. And count this for each player.

In my opinion it's pretty clear that killing Risar is only one option to earn those points. Probably other dungeons like the Sator dungeon or world bosses like Greater Kimuru can be used, too. But I agree, we also need non-group-actions to earn clade points.

Let's hope so. Let's hope there's some things in the jungle and other regions, some things that don't involve killing, some things that involve other clades and their lore.

Right now, it's tarring an otherwise epic Dungeon and addition to MO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vagrant

VeelaVidiVici

Member
Jan 2, 2021
52
36
18
Let's hope so. Let's hope there's some things in the jungle and other regions, some things that don't involve killing, some things that involve other clades and their lore.

Right now, it's tarring an otherwise epic Dungeon and addition to MO.
I'd hope so. Farming mobs for solely for clades is a terrible idea imo like holocron mob camping in SWG. In Asheron's Call there was a quest (Silfi of the Crimson Stars) for items that the player had to put together based on their skill; which also had a good chance for failure, this in MO2 could be combined with a bind on construction item or a clade gift. For instance Plant Shaping has little to do with killing Risars, so the idea of linking to a non-combat lore seems logical.
 

Rhias

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
1,130
1,325
113
I got about 2 1/2 clade gift points after killing a Risar yesterday. The patch notes tell about factor 100x compared to the release. This means, one player has to kill about 40 Risar to get one clade gift point. With 20 points maximum one has to kill about 800 Risar. This will take some time. And count this for each player.

In my opinion it's pretty clear that killing Risar is only one option to earn those points. Probably other dungeons like the Sator dungeon or world bosses like Greater Kimuru can be used, too. But I agree, we also need non-group-actions to earn clade points.

Pretty sure it's not scaling linear...
During some time I needed to kill 2 Risars to gain 1 level. Later I needed to kill 4.
Maybe my memorie tricks me and I just didn't get the last hits. But I'm pretty confident that I needed 4 last hits for one level...
 

Vagrant

Active member
Oct 8, 2020
163
110
43
no fixed address
just beta streaming or not this feels a lot like we just had 'mob kill based levelling' introduced,
let the dungeon crawl tours begin.

another example of the Tindremic Empire overlords incentivising senseless killing !
 
  • Like
Reactions: Godkin Veratas