Combat is boring, a note to Henrik.

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Handsome Young Man

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I can imagine the new problems will generate such idea if they potentially split the community.

"Game is dead" (again) for two different servers, "I can't go to other continent cause Im having lags there" for spliting servers between ingame continents. It looks good only on paper ;)

No it doesn't, because people from EU would play on the NA server and people from the NA server would go to the EU one. Since playing MO1 was a thing, if we had ping normalization to a lesser degree (Say 50ms instead of the current 100ms) you'd probably find a happier population overall.
 
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Vakirauta

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And it will generate theoretically the same problem for both sides that there are desyncs on NA serv for EU and EU for NA. But I get your point anyway.
 

Handsome Young Man

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And it will generate the same problem for both sides that there are desyncs on NA serv for EU and EU for NA.

There are going to be desyncs regardless. It's a game trying to market a single server, the bigger point being made here is even with the current changes to combat and the ping normalization - things still desync.
 
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Rorry

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Why is it every time someone tries to draw a comparison between two games some fucking guy has to come in and go...

"well acskhuallly they arent t-t he s-same game iiiidiot!!"

We're fucking aware, genius. That doesn't MEAN we can't look at another game and what it does and then take it as an idea, re-balance or re-fit it to fit something for MO2, and present it as a potential solution or as a way to highlight a specific issue within MO2.

Just because people compare MO2 and Mordhau doesn't mean MO2 needs to be exactly like Mordhau or that you need to keep beating this dead horse of "well mordhau is a lobby game and MO2 is a massive mmorpg blah blah blah".

You do nothing but reinforce others ideas by saying dumb shit like this, it isn't any kind of logical counter other then trying to strawman peoples constructive criticism.

FOR EXAMPLE.

I made the comparison that Mordhau USED to have fast combat, with super loose to no turn caps that felt at all restrictive. But then, people (A big casual crowd) came in and complained about it. So what did they do? They made the combat slower and made the turn caps more restrictive. They made it so people could parry kicks, they made it so people could wear basically what ever armor they want and use what ever armor they want killing the 'roles' people filled in competitive play.

How is looking at Mordhau and thinking about all of this even remotely saying "and thats why mo2 needs to be like Mordhau". Because guess what? It doesn't need to be. I don't want the combat slowed down, I don't want super restrictive turn caps, I don't want anyone to just be able to wear and use what ever they like with little to no penalty - just no.

It's like someone said earlier, even with all these changes the game desyncs the same (and even more for me) then previous patches. How hilarious is that? You guys want the combat to be slow, and continually defend it but the fact of the matter is people still desync, people still slide around, get stuck in place, animations disappear or randomly speed up / slow down. Only problem is now no one can die in a 1v1 if they don't want to and even more hilarious players can survive in group fights easier because parrying 3 people isn't even remotely that hard. Now imagine a mage just healing you in the process of all that. How the fuck is that balanced? Someone dives into your group, makes a big mistake and can't finish; then runs back into their group as the enemy team dives him and they can't finish him because the game feels like we're stuck in quick sand with arthritis and tetanus.

It's just baffling. You guys think 'special moves' are going to save the combat, and you know what will happen if they keep the combat the same? The moves will come out, and they'll either be super negligible in a fight or extremely abusable / broken encouraging the idea of gear / numbers > skill. Quote me on it when this happens.
What has been happening is that people are wanting MO to add features of other games a lot. The problem is that they are completely different types of games (Rust is a big example,) not always pvp things. The issue is that they are either such a different type (survival, server based, etc.) that adopting these things will change MO away from it's essence. They are often hand- holdy things, but sometimes just more casual (like sleepers instead of logouts) which don't fit with the importance of things in a persistent world. I know nothing about Mordhau, for the record, so I am not commenting on your thoughts in particular. I think it is ok to draw comparisons with the combat in other games with always being careful to note technical differences i.e. something may work for a small localized server based game that won't work for MO.
Bottom line, SV must try speeding up combat with the ping normalization or we will never know how well it could work. It will always be a missed opportunity.
 

Handsome Young Man

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What has been happening is that people are wanting MO to add features of other games a lot. The problem is that they are completely different types of games (Rust is a big example,) not always pvp things. The issue is that they are either such a different type (survival, server based, etc.) that adopting these things will change MO away from it's essence. They are often hand- holdy things, but sometimes just more casual (like sleepers instead of logouts) which don't fit with the importance of things in a persistent world. I know nothing about Mordhau, for the record, so I am not commenting on your thoughts in particular. I think it is ok to draw comparisons with the combat in other games with always being careful to note technical differences i.e. something may work for a small localized server based game that won't work for MO.
Bottom line, SV must try speeding up combat with the ping normalization or we will never know how well it could work. It will always be a missed opportunity.

This is a very polite, and well written reply to what I had to say. I appreciate it.

Yeah, so my point is basically to steer away from that casual-ized experience of slow combat. I feel like sure it allows more players in at the entry level, but it promotes a much, much lower skill ceiling and room for improvement. Fighting currently doesn't feel skill based or rewarding outside of upsetting someone.
 
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Grisù

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Well let me list some of my personal statements:

is MO2 combat boring?: absolutely true (for the most i just see people charging slash, run to enemy, attack, do a 180°, run away and then repeat).
is Mordahu combat better, or at least more interesting, than MO2's one?: sure! (insert very big number of peculiarity here)
is MO2 combat going to become better than many others "First Person Slashers" in the future: at this point I highly doubt it.
does all others "First Person Slashers" have an utterly big number of features and persistence as MO2 does?: Never played one that does.

I too would like to have more dynamic combat with many other features.
Now almost at the end of Combat Alpha I doubt MO2 Combat is going to have such a big improvement, but surely they can add and refine some other features.

At this advanced stage I think we all have to deal with some compromises and remember that MO2 has only one game server for the entire world and is not focused only on combat, like many other games taken in as example.

Like they says in my country:
You can't have a drunk wife, barrel full of wine and still have money in pocket.
 
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Javelin

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So you guys keep bringing up that the reason its this way is they have to have one server. They don’t. If you split the server to fix ping if you create nodes even if it means loading screens to increase performance you can create a fast paced stable experience which will result in more player retention and a larger population. It is not worth having one server and a seamless experience if everyone is desyncing all over the place. If the reason is technical limitation with how theyve implemented their world then they need to accept that it cant be done this way without sacrificing player experience and adapt to proven methods that will mitigate the issues and give them a better overall player experience.
 

ThaBadMan

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It's just baffling. You guys think 'special moves' are going to save the combat, and you know what will happen if they keep the combat the same? The moves will come out, and they'll either be super negligible in a fight or extremely abusable / broken encouraging the idea of gear / numbers > skill. Quote me on it when this happens.
Thats my fear, and by now all my fears have come true. Not a good sign.
 

Eldrath

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the Jungle. Meditating on things to come.
The problem is that most don´t understand or agree with two fundamental principles:
1. Action based, skill rewarding combat with a high skill ceiling is important for the sandbox

2. Having combat determined by grind will lead to a stale and predicable experience and ultimately kill the game.

Personally I don´t care how SV archives combat that rewards skill. There are different approaches as you can see in the different e-sports.
 
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agui

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Yeah combat is boring and we are in alpha combat game to test everything before game is out.

Why not just try to do some minor changes in melee combat, as:

1 - increase foot and swing speed a bit.

1.1 - If the increase of speed is not good enough ...a lil bit more ... go temper it bit a bit

2 -reduce the arc of blocking a bit

2.1 - if not enough reduce more and test. If it goes wrong bring it back a bit.

3 - if you miss a hit , in the follow 3 sec, you cant parry just block (getting dmg as penalty)

4 - if u miss a hit u take one sec without defense

5 - if your hit got parried you get another faster hit, and if that last is parried you got another faster hit but if get parried again the defender get an extra 10% full hit on counter (why is that? u can link 3 fast attacks in a row ... but if u dont do your job right u can get a big dmg from the defense).

BRING ideas!!!!
 

Snasen

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Skill ceiling + skill and creativity being rewarded noticeably is the key to a long lived competitive game.

In my opinion MO2 at this moment lacks this due to:

- turn cap
- swing speed too slow and
- block being too easy
- movement too slow (both max speed and acceleration

With less restrictions, players can be more flexible and creative during combat and also perfect their technique on a higher scale = rewarding for competitive players
 

ThaBadMan

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people blaming game IN alpha thats funny :D
Blaming ?
Only way for an Alpha to be successful is by taking the feedback you get and use it to improve the game. If we couldnt critizise the game on what they deliver poorly, whats the point of testing phases ?
 

Amelia

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It's about one year, that I try Star Citizen and they have similar problems, lag, bugs, ecc. and they have a huge team and money. Just say.
 

Handsome Young Man

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people blaming game IN alpha thats funny :D
Haha great feedback!

"wow u say bad thing about game in alpha... it not be like this 4ever..."

Oh, wait? Except SV have been quoted saying the core combat is exactly where they want it?

We have 2 patches before persistence.
 

Handsome Young Man

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It's about one year, that I try Star Citizen and they have similar problems, lag, bugs, ecc. and they have a huge team and money. Just say.

Notice how the topic is in reference to mechanics and not about things you're listing. Did they make the combat a certain way to try and remedy some of these issues from arising? Sort of, but ut hasnt really worked.
 

Bernfred

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Oh.

oh that makes me sad... the one server idea may die here. people will get their mordhau fights by losing immersion and the soul of MO.
 

Vakirauta

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Well, you will move between them whenever you want, but I don't see that there will be much fighting between continents.

I wish I'm wrong.
 
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