Bandages - Community Discussion

[Rolufe]

less heals also massively favors the ganker, giving the person who gets jumped a lot less chance to recover. maybe you consider that the fault of the gankee, not paying attention to their surroundsings, but i think it happens to all of us now and again, you cant be uber vigilant forever.

also consider: hotpots

I think rather than discussing simply bandaids, this should be a broader conversation about combat healing in general (which some have brought the conversation around to already so thats good).

if bandaids are made to be channelled and require you to be stationary for the duration, theres certainly situations where you can get a couple ticks off even with people chasing you.

some would consider it a nerf and perhaps it is, but maybe pots should be less rare to compensate. Back in the day, potions were generally too expensive to bother to stock up on. partially because bandages were cheap and plentiful, partially because it took a ton of gathering to make them and noone really wanted to bother.

if low grade potions were cheap and plentiful (still player crafted but inexpensive to stock up on and bring with you as a matter of course) then your total combat healing wouldnt take much of a hit.

-barcode

This is what im interested in lower over time heal or remove heal from bandages and make potions the standard healing and you can maybe have some low hp short time pots or high hp long time pots. and magic stays more or less the same with burst heals.

The attackers gets a surprise advantage and predicting your enemies actions more important. Both teamwork or solo skill will be more important. Bows will be more useful, as you cant just stand there out healing it on your own. Alchemist will be a more useful profession. With bows having more of a advantage due to lower healing, shields and top tier armor will be more useful.

There is probably even more advantages, doing it this way than i have thought of.

Would be nice if you guys can come up with good or bad things with this. If there is a lack of reason for why not to change it this way. Then i think we can go ahead and inform SV about our thoughts on the matter.

 

[Rulant]

This is what im interested in lower over time heal or remove heal from bandages and make potions the standard healing and you can maybe have some low hp short time pots or high hp long time pots. and magic stays more or less the same with burst heals.

The attackers gets a surprise advantage and predicting your enemies actions more important. Both teamwork or solo skill will be more important. Bows will be more useful, as you cant just stand there out healing it on your own. Alchemist will be a more useful profession. With bows having more of a advantage due to lower healing, shields and top tier armor will be more useful.

There is probably even more advantages, doing it this way than i have thought of.

Would be nice if you guys can come up with good or bad things with this. If there is a lack of reason for why not to change it this way. Then i think we can go ahead and inform SV about our thoughts on the matter.

I like the potion idea, they would need to be more accessible though so as to not skew things to much between players. Newer groups should also have an easy time getting them, especially if they are just HoT they def shouldn't be as hard as they were in MO1. Old days with small and big pots were great and going back to something like that would be good honestly, with pots a HoT and bandages a few second channel for burstier heal and mages for insta burst.

 

[Eldrath]

I like the potion idea, they would need to be more accessible though so as to not skew things to much between players. Newer groups should also have an easy time getting them, especially if they are just HoT they def shouldn't be as hard as they were in MO1. Old days with small and big pots were great and going back to something like that would be good honestly, with pots a HoT and bandages a few second channel for burstier heal and mages for insta burst.

I think alchemy was fine as far as the crafting went. Aquiring the resources was problematic. But I think it should not be hard to adjust the "base" healing values of all the materials up or down. Bandage/healing salve crafting should also be part of alchemy, but extremely basic so that anyone could pick it up in a jack-of-all trades build. Reducing a crafting profession to suit PvP is a bad idea. There are other ways to fix this then making it into a "put in leaves - get big pot" choice. I´m interested in more player control, not less.

In the end the old bandage system was a delayed heal. So chaging it to HoT is not that big a deal. I still think renaming it and maybe toning down the heal would work fine with pots going down in instant healing and moving over to HoT. Basically making it more logical, with the same system but less effective.

Would be nice if you guys can come up with good or bad things with this. If there is a lack of reason for why not to change it this way. Then i think we can go ahead and inform SV about our thoughts on the matter.

We are already informing SV of our thoughts right here and now. Please don´t fall into the test group way of thinking, where specific people had more access to the developers. It ended up with very shitty results. Make your arguments here and let the devs read them and sort them out for themselves.

 

[barcode]

If bandages heal was removed and instead worked to deal with bleed effects.

what bleed effects? there arent any bleed effects. 2nd time you've mentioned this, is it something they're adding?

-barcode

 

[Rolufe]

what bleed effects? there arent any bleed effects. 2nd time you've mentioned this, is it something they're adding?

-barcode

Just something that would make Bandages make sense, that some of us in the community thought would be a nice implementation. Second time i answer you on this I guess you dont like the idea as you asked again?

 

[Kelzyr]

I think most people would agree that potions in MO1 were pretty ridiculous in their potency. I think if all potions were changed from instant heals to a heal over time it would balance them out nicely, as long as the ticks over time were not crazy either.

IMO I don't think any source of healing should be able to heal more than 100HP but that would be the very highest limit I would be willing to grant someone...and that would have to be a pot with oghmium tier ingredients.

(Maybe we need to start a thread about pots as well at this point haha)

 

[bbihah]

I like the potion idea, they would need to be more accessible though so as to not skew things to much between players. Newer groups should also have an easy time getting them, especially if they are just HoT they def shouldn't be as hard as they were in MO1. Old days with small and big pots were great and going back to something like that would be good honestly, with pots a HoT and bandages a few second channel for burstier heal and mages for insta burst.

There are so many ways to make potions a easier and more common occurrence rather than messing with the difficulty in making them.

Some ways would be to decrease the total units required to fill a potion to full as well as making it easier to being able to move liquids from a big container to the bottles or in general moving liquid around. Another would be to achieve results easier by diluting the liquid with another liquid and then adding another catalyst to decrease the effect lost in the potion. This to be able to make more potions cheaper at cost of losing out some stock while trying out diluting, and the total end result obviously being weaker per potion but increasing the total amount of healing per big volume(not per potion). How it is right now(mo1) its incredibly clunky and limited.

 

[Rolufe]

I think most people would agree that potions in MO1 were pretty ridiculous in their potency. I think if all potions were changed from instant heals to a heal over time it would balance them out nicely, as long as the ticks over time were not crazy either.

IMO I don't think any source of healing should be able to heal more than 100HP but that would be the very highest limit I would be willing to grant someone...and that would have to be a pot with oghmium tier ingredients.

(Maybe we need to start a thread about pots as well at this point haha)

I think we need to discus healing as a whole since it will all be bound together. You can after all have it all on one character or draw use from all of it at the same time.

I agree potions instant healing was a little OP. Bandages i think is OP in their own way as it heals as a pop as well and is basically free and weights nothing so we carried hundreds all the time. It was also something you could use quite often. I do however think bandages enabled new players to heal themselves and that balanced them against older players a bit, but if you could somehow make potions the goto heal and bandages being more of a support to the potions. i think it would make more sense. I saw Eldrath talking about changing name on bandages to healing salve. I think this could also be a option. Removing bandages and instead have healing salve with a HoT effect.

I don't think the amount of heal is a problem. It wont matter if you got a 1000hp pot, if the HoT on that is a few hours. It will be like a weak passive reg at that point. I think the problem is with a decently strong heal over the period of a fight, as it then can be used like a damage shield. It might not matter due to thirst if they now make thirst the same or at least similar as MO1.

If SV now like this more and makes potions more of the primary heal. SV might also change amount of thirst or thirst reg. Maybe even make hunger and thirst two separated hunger bars. One is solid food and the other liquids. so as long as you don't drink much you can use potions more. Makes you have to think trough what you do. Heard this is called skills

My fighters all had 200x bandages, 1x 40unit 50hp per 10 units/thirst pot, 10 unit purify pot. Arthas and Saidan also had full use out of Ecumenical healing(Lesser and Greater heal) Arthas was heading to get 100 Necromancy so he could use death hand(touch range to target 50 damage 25 heal back to caster) and sacrifice(killing all your skeletons for a heal depending on numbers of skeletons) to heal with. He also had animal magnetism so he was on his way to get a DK/tupilak for death link. to reduce inc damage. The lvl of durability i would have had would be massive. I really like that this was all possible as its cool out of a RP perspective from a Warcraft fan. But with all that healing It would be like i was having ogh when i was wearing steel unless i was corrupted at which i just purified myself with magic or pot(unless i already chugged hp pot and was out of thirst).

I was just aiming for utility with Arthas. He really had a option for every situation. He had a 110str longbow and longbow arrows for anti-mount from defensive positions and he also carried a messing sledge for anti mount at close range. Even had 40ish points in riding to have a get away horse with a minimum of 9 int worked alright in foot fights as he as a slow kallard/tindremin 235 move speed. Only problem was keeping the mount back when your unit was slowly moving backwards as i had to mount it, ride it back, dismount and then rejoin the fight

Anyway all the magic is using same resource to function so it don't matter how many different ways you can heal with magic as long as those are decently balanced. I think they are pretty well balanced. You could heal your full HP in one go with Sacrifice but to do that you need a sea of skeletons which will cost your whole mana bar to make and the time to create them. It isn't worth using, which is sad. I think all spells should be wroth using in the right situations. Don't think anyone can justify the sacrificial heal.

This got way longer than planed. Sorry

 

[Kelzyr]

I think we need to discus healing as a whole since it will all be bound together. You can after all have it all on one character or draw use from all of it at the same time.

I agree potions instant healing was a little OP. Bandages i think is OP in their own way as it heals as a pop as well and is basically free and weights nothing so we carried hundreds all the time. It was also something you could use quite often. I do however think bandages enabled new players to heal themselves and that balanced them against older players a bit, but if you could somehow make potions the goto heal and bandages being more of a support to the potions. i think it would make more sense. I saw Eldrath talking about changing name on bandages to healing salve. I think this could also be a option. Removing bandages and instead have healing salve with a HoT effect.

I don't think the amount of heal is a problem. It wont matter if you got a 1000hp pot, if the HoT on that is a few hours. It will be like a weak passive reg at that point. I think the problem is with a decently strong heal over the period of a fight, as it then can be used like a damage shield. It might not matter due to thirst if they now make thirst the same or at least similar as MO1.

I definitely should have made myself more clear, when I said 100HP max I was thinking that this heal would be over a reasonable amount of time, say 10 hp every 1s for 10s (obviously I just chose easy numbers). I would say the duration of the HoT would have to be less than the time it would take for you to use another pot so you can't be healing 100% of the time. I personally didn't like the potion system of drinking a set amount of uses before you couldn't drink again. I think they should keep it simple and just have a CD before you can drink potions again that is reasonable (15-20s maybe). This would hopefully balance the ability to purify and then drink a potion.

The thing I loved most about MO1 was the coordination between the fighters and mages to keep the group alive. Potions ruined that, with both purify pots and healing pots a warrior ALMOST didn't need a mage unless they were getting stickied by 3 fighters while stamed out.

I would say my most enjoyable time in MO is when most healing came from bandages and mages. I think if bandages were basically made unusable in combat and potions became more accessible (and toned down to be a bit more balanced) the combat in MO2 would be a lot better off.

 

[KermyWormy]

There are so many ways to make potions a easier and more common occurrence rather than messing with the difficulty in making them.

Some ways would be to decrease the total units required to fill a potion to full as well as making it easier to being able to move liquids from a big container to the bottles or in general moving liquid around. Another would be to achieve results easier by diluting the liquid with another liquid and then adding another catalyst to decrease the effect lost in the potion. This to be able to make more potions cheaper at cost of losing out some stock while trying out diluting, and the total end result obviously being weaker per potion but increasing the total amount of healing per big volume(not per potion). How it is right now(mo1) its incredibly clunky and limited.

I never personally thought the materials that went into potion making were difficult or out of balance from a time investment as a craft, and the price per 1k keg for avg stuff seemed like the market was fair enough for most of the time I was paying attention. That's coming from the supply side of gathering and making and selling tho. At the very top, very time consuming and expensive, which was good imo, but there was a lot of cheap stuff you could make that still had value.

Before all recipes were shared it was a unique Trade to have in that each alchemist had a little different product, and the demand for services was good. When supply dried up price went up, then another Alchemist got a recipe and filled supply and price would go down ...seemed alright.

I only mention that because I see some opinions of making potions much more prevalent and common, albeit less powerful. I want them to change Direct Healing in Potions to only HoT, but would like potions to remain a niche or supplemental healing option. This is just my opinion, but I think when folding all the systems together Alchemy held a unique place because of the original mystery and demand for the product, and would like that to be in the new game as well. But I don't want it to be a "whoopsie I overextended" get out of jail free card at the high end, just useful. I don't know how else to describe it, but it should be a supplementary heal, whereas bandages (bandaid, salve) should remain as the primary heal everyone has access to.

To do this tho they'll need to shuffle a ton of properties in the database, which I always feel like they're reluctant to do. But I think they need to do that for alchemical and cooking stuff and reset the table so the old research like I have and many others have won't be such an advantage. Shuffle all properties and let the weirdo's who enjoy the masochism of research, new and old alike be on the same footing when the game goes persistent.

 

[Rolufe]

I definitely should have made myself more clear, when I said 100HP max I was thinking that this heal would be over a reasonable amount of time, say 10 hp every 1s for 10s (obviously I just chose easy numbers). I would say the duration of the HoT would have to be less than the time it would take for you to use another pot so you can't be healing 100% of the time. I personally didn't like the potion system of drinking a set amount of uses before you couldn't drink again. I think they should keep it simple and just have a CD before you can drink potions again that is reasonable (15-20s maybe). This would hopefully balance the ability to purify and then drink a potion.

Yea i think there must be some form of limitations. Either staying away from a certain hp/time on pots, so it dont reach the shield like effect. Regrowth or what the druid spell was in WoW that basically made Druid in the bear form a self healing tank Having some form of limitation on how much or when you can drink. Would also achieve this i think.

I liked that you had a set amount of thirst so you could drink x number of sips before you where full. Wouldn't mind if this was expanded on and made into proper hunger bar but for liquid. This would also cause a little blende between food(drinks) and potions.

The thing I loved most about MO1 was the coordination between the fighters and mages to keep the group alive. Potions ruined that, with both purify pots and healing pots a warrior ALMOST didn't need a mage unless they were getting stickied by 3 fighters while stamed out.

I totally agree. Having all that on the fighters removes the need for teamwork quite a bit. I often used potions if i heard many others calling for heals mainly to relive the mages a little so they didn't get overrun with calls. Also while this is going on there will be more calls about 20 other things... So it is easy to miss who exactly called for heals. Specially when you dont know the voices.

I would say my most enjoyable time in MO is when most healing came from bandages and mages. I think if bandages were basically made unusable in combat and potions became more accessible (and toned down to be a bit more balanced) the combat in MO2 would be a lot better off.

I think most healing came from bandages and mages trough out MO1 existence. However i did notice there was a big increase during the wars between ID and "RPK!" and you also heard of some people having massive potions with lots of healing. Hayasa running around with a keg is probably the most famous

I think if bandages were basically made unusable in combat and potions became more accessible (and toned down to be a bit more balanced) the combat in MO2 would be a lot better off.

I agree i think doing those changes would be a good thing for MO2. But it gotta be a easy access for newbies as well.

 

[Kobalt]

Keep it simple. Personally, I think bandages as is are fine. Channel timer on bandage, get hit, get interrupted. Self sufficiency is fine.

 

[Kelzyr]

I liked that you had a set amount of thirst so you could drink x number of sips before you where full. Wouldn't mind if this was expanded on and made into proper hunger bar but for liquid. This would also cause a little blende between food(drinks) and potions.

I could be very wrong on this because its been a while since I played last. As long as you can't drink 2 units of purify pot and then 8 units of healing pot (or whatever the limits are) then fine. I think I'd be ok with a thirst system if as soon as any amount of pot touches those lips you are put on a cool down before you can drink again regardless of how many units were used.

I agree i think doing those changes would be a good thing for MO2. But it gotta be a easy access for newbies as well.

I think this could be easily remedied by having humanoid type mobs (walkers included) have a chance to drop pots, these pots would obviously have to be much worse than most well trained Alchemists would be able to provide as to not make the profession pointless.

Say the standard mid tier Alchemist pot heals for 50 HP over 10s the pots dropped off mobs should only heal for 25/30 HP over 10s. (obviously none of these numbers should be taken too seriously, just spit-balling here)

 

[Rolufe]

I could be very wrong on this because its been a while since I played last. As long as you can't drink 2 units of purify pot and then 8 units of healing pot (or whatever the limits are) then fine. I think I'd be ok with a thirst system if as soon as any amount of pot touches those lips you are put on a cool down before you can drink again regardless of how many units were used.

Pretty sure it sipped 2 units at a time. 1 unit = 1 thirst You had 10 thirst so you where able to sip a little purify and health. Not sure if it was possible during the same drink. Since it basically queued up until you didnt take another sip or was out of thrist to sip again after a set amount of time it just drank the number of times you pressed the icon. Its possible it was made in a way it could only drink from one bottle per drink queue. So you would have to wait until that finished and then start the next set of sips. Someone else might know.

I think this could be easily remedied by having humanoid type mobs (walkers included) have a chance to drop pots, these pots would obviously have to be much worse than most well trained Alchemists would be able to provide as to not make the profession pointless.

Pretty sure you had a very small chance to loot minor hp pots from bandits and the more "elite" walkers, the armored ones. It was however very rare and they dont think they had more than 10 units of some pretty bad hp potion.

Say the standard mid tier Alchemist pot heals for 50 HP over 10s the pots dropped off mobs should only heal for 25/30 HP over 10s. (obviously none of these numbers should be taken too seriously, just spit-balling here)

Think those lootable minor hp pots was more like 10-15hp per 10 thirst They where basically useless compared to bandages healing something like 10-50hp.

 

[Kelzyr]

Pretty sure it sipped 2 units at a time. 1 unit = 1 thirst You had 10 thirst so you where able to sip a little purify and health. Not sure if it was possible during the same drink. Since it basically queued up until you didnt take another sip or was out of thrist to sip again after a set amount of time it just drank the number of times you pressed the icon. Its possible it was made in a way it could only drink from one bottle per drink queue. So you would have to wait until that finished and then start the next set of sips. Someone else might know.

Yeah I'm really hazy on how the potion system worked, I would only argue that one person shouldn't be able to purify themselves and then heal right after. If thats already the case then cheers.

We'll have to wait and see what system they implement in MO2.

Pretty sure you had a very small chance to loot minor hp pots from bandits and the more "elite" walkers, the armored ones. It was however very rare and they dont think they had more than 10 units of some pretty bad hp potion.

Think those lootable minor hp pots was more like 10-15hp per 10 thirst They where basically useless compared to bandages healing something like 10-50hp.

Yeah, that's pretty much unacceptable in terms of a drop if bandages are done away with (or at least unviable in most cases).

 

[barcode]

minor healing potion is 30hp/10pu iirc, which is really not bad for a throwaway pot. also you can dilute purify with your healing potion to ensure it heals you thru a corrupt (combine 2 units purify with 8 units potion and drink 10 units) tho obviously this limits how strong the healing can be as its diluted, and means you dont get the purify effect if you consume less than 10 units.

thirst recovers one point per 15 seconds i think? so you get 4 points per minute, and can then take a full 10pu pot every 2.5 mins
bandaids were 35-50 hp every 30 seconds i think?

so if you're not getting hit to interrupt bandaids, they will heal for 70-100 ish per minute, and pots heal for max 48-ish every minute (assume 120hp pot)

looking at it this way, bandaids can account for *far more* healing than pots, just with the caveat that you cant get that healing if you're getting beat on.

perhaps bandages should be craftable as poultices when you add healing herbs to them. using a poultice would be like current bandaids but heal you as a hot for the duration of the normal bandage cooldown rather than at a burst 10 seconds in. any damage taken reduces the effectiveness for the duration of the rest of the hot effect.

when not crafted as a poultice, bandaids can only be used stationary and channeled, interrupted on movement or hit. they would heal for more this way, but have the risk of being interrupted more easily.

-barcode

 

[Rolufe]

perhaps bandages should be craftable as poultices when you add healing herbs to them. using a poultice would be like current bandaids but heal you as a hot for the duration of the normal bandage cooldown rather than at a burst 10 seconds in. any damage taken reduces the effectiveness for the duration of the rest of the hot effect.


-barcode

I like this idéa if it was instead of the bandages or like a healing bonus ontop of a much weaker bandage heal. of course it also need a animation during which you are wrapping it on a arm or something.

 

[Bonii]

Why change something if it isn't broken?

Keep it the same, enables kiting and progressive play to fight 1vX.

The parry change has already made MO2 50x more carebear than MO1, no need to keep adding to the carebearism otherwise we'd end up with a worse "New World"..........

 

[Rolufe]

Why change something if it isn't broken?

Keep it the same, enables kiting and progressive play to fight 1vX.

The parry change has already made MO2 50x more carebear than MO1, no need to keep adding to the carebearism otherwise we'd end up with a worse "New World"..........

Elon tells us to break everything and make it better Also reason why we wanna change things is that we can survive so easy now and healing is way to much. Most people also hate the 1hp guy in ogh tha instantly go to 200hp using a potion. This is why we talking about making animations for it all +make all heals HoTs and only magic being burst healing.

 

[bbihah]

Elon tells us to break everything and make it better Also reason why we wanna change things is that we can survive so easy now and healing is way to much. Most people also hate the 1hp guy in ogh tha instantly go to 200hp using a potion. This is why we talking about making animations for it all +make all heals HoTs and only magic being burst healing.

Even then I personally think the magic burst healing should be much easier to counter and less instant.
Pre-cast spell
Cast spell on target
X seconds later the heal lands.
Any more heals on the target in the time before the heal hits just refreshes the delay = the instant kind of healing needs more coordination when there are multiple mages and cant be spammed for increased effect.

Combine this with hot spells, bandages and potions and you'll still only be out of the fight for a very short while. But atleast you dont get the whole, fully armored guy getting focus healed for full health in a split second while he is fighting.

But that is just me.