Add Skill Loss Over Time

jbrewer

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Jul 20, 2020
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Since now any one character can have multiple professions with the upcoming skill system, in order to reward people who want to focus on crafting or taming or combat, how about we introduce a system where if you don't use skills for a long time, you lose points in those skills? That way, people who primarily craft won't be put on the same level as some dude who only cares about PvP but will make himself a weapon every now and then. Or people who only craft will be put at a disadvantage if they try to defend themselves from a PvPer once in a while.

The skill loss can be implemented as a constant slow XP/Point drain over time, or instant point losses after a day or so of not being used.
 
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jbrewer

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Jul 20, 2020
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no

skill loss may be included as a punishment of some kind for 'red' activity in addition to stat loss, but a passive amount of skill loss is simply unacceptable. i dont think anyone wants to be on that treadmill

-barcode
Yes well no one wants to mine ore or afk with their mount to level it up, or grind up their skills either. This game isn't about instant gratification, it's about hard work paying off. Why should people who have dedicated their gameplay to a set of skills be put at the same level as someone who just leveled it up to 100 then never touched it again? People that work hard and put in more effort should be rewarded over those that don't.
 

KermyWormy

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May 29, 2020
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Since now any one character can have multiple professions with the upcoming skill system, in order to reward people who want to focus on crafting or taming or combat, how about we introduce a system where if you don't use skills for a long time, you lose points in those skills? That way, people who primarily craft won't be put on the same level as some dude who only cares about PvP but will make himself a weapon every now and then. Or people who only craft will be put at a disadvantage if they try to defend themselves from a PvPer once in a while.

The skill loss can be implemented as a constant slow XP/Point drain over time, or instant point losses after a day or so of not being used.
I don't like it. Don't see how it actually really adds anything meaningful to the game. Punishments are not rewards by the way...you should work for the U.S gov't.
 

Phen

Active member
May 29, 2020
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Earth
No, just no, why train something for it to just go away once you don't need to use it for awhile? Just doesnt make sense my friend. To much to do to have any skill point loss after weeks of work..
 
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Dracu

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Jul 13, 2020
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A punishment for not playing the game?
...Why? There is nothing beneficial about it.
If you would increase the skill gain by alot though so you can farm them back up very quickly that would be something different.
As a choice you know?
Option 1) Faster progress but degration if not used
Option 2) keeping skills, taking forever by training it slower.
When you want something like this i think it should be a choice.
 

Kavu

Active member
Jun 21, 2020
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I think I join the chorus in saying:
No, not even a little. Game was already a second job that yelled at you to play it. Really don't need stat decay in the game. Pointless repetitive rat race that nobody wants to be a part of.
 

Rhias

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
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Would be really funny if those people who quit MO for half a year, or maybe a year, return, and all skill be back to 0. :D
 
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Zbuciorn

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Jun 3, 2020
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Full loot is enough of punishment to make the game interesting.
Instead adding systems which makes game not fun it is better to focus on clearing up existing ways of MO1 and improve on them.
MO2 should be focused on bringing larger crowd to the game by keeping it hardcore but smoother experience.
Quality of life improvements should be the priority.
There are gamers who actually have a stuff going on in real life and most of the time they are much nicer and friendlier players than
those antisocial mofos stuck at their computers all the time.No for second job game!
 

Eldrath

Well-known member
no

skill loss may be included as a punishment of some kind for 'red' activity in addition to stat loss, but a passive amount of skill loss is simply unacceptable. i dont think anyone wants to be on that treadmill

-barcode
No to punishing players for playing the game. Statloss was terrible mechanic which only promoted multiple accounts and favoured big guilds with TC heavily. Having it applied to skills would make it even worse.

If you want to inhibit player killers from joining the fights too soon there are other and better ways. Having to punch something for 20 minutes is shit game design.


Since now any one character can have multiple professions with the upcoming skill system, in order to reward people who want to focus on crafting or taming or combat, how about we introduce a system where if you don't use skills for a long time, you lose points in those skills? That way, people who primarily craft won't be put on the same level as some dude who only cares about PvP but will make himself a weapon every now and then. Or people who only craft will be put at a disadvantage if they try to defend themselves from a PvPer once in a while.

The skill loss can be implemented as a constant slow XP/Point drain over time, or instant point losses after a day or so of not being used.
I don´t like the idea very much. Then again raising and lowering skills should very fluid in MO2. With only one character we need to be able to change professions in reasonable time and without idiotic grind.
 

Speznat

Active member
May 28, 2020
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sry brewer but thats mechanics that drive people away.

If i imageine dont playing for 3months log in and found out my skills droped, Insta quit and playing some other game to enjoy instead of second job online.

Its not about instand gradification it would be just bad game design, same with slack hauling and some other stuff they could make it interesting and whatever and less grindy. but it has to feel fair. If something feels unfair or totally out of balance people dont do it. But if they have to do it in order to have fun later its just bad game design.

The grind should be the fun Like in GTA Online, the grind is the fun not the money afterwards, sure you onyl grind because of the money, but thats the thing it never felt unfair in any way. thats one of the key differences why some mmo's totally fail and some dont.

If it feels to unfair people leaving and playing something else. if the grind ist 10000 hours long but interresting and feel fair, noone get bothered.

i dont have a solution for that problem, but inta everything is no solution at all. its hould be more like mechanics that make sense.

for example slag hauling. why limited nodes, make nodes like spawing in areas and stuff and have so much that they are there for weeks and stuff. than you can balance the stone outcome instead. Not limiting the Amount of base materials but balance the amount that comes out of it. Just an example. or exrracting with animation, and less time waste in processing stuff, more like put it in the grinder, and walk away and get it 1hour later or seomthing.


More Important Stuff here:
and secondly everything sv do, they should always have in thier head the Meta shit the player have to do in order to do x

that means if you balance stuff for a dungeon for example. what Meta shit the palyers have to do.

- Organizing all people together to get dungeon group
- Armor Crafting
- Weapon crafting
- Taming
- planning
- Bow Crafting
- Travel with all people to the spot
- get out of the dungeon travel back
- sell the shit for actual reward money

and congratz you wasted hours and hours for nothing and you haven't made the dungeon.
And SV totally forgot to calculate such shit in. thats why many people Hate mortal and left. Its just feels for some people really punishing. all that extra stuff that dont get rewarded for the time if you split the dungoen stuff to about 6people whats left? to less to be resonable in any way. thats why its hard to motivate people to do dungeon x.

because why should i waste x hours runnign around and ghosting back and waste a whole day of my life for nothing or not even enouhg reward. thats why many dont even approach some runs or spots because it simply doesn't worth the meta hassle.

And you have to Calculate in possible failure:

if mobs are bugging than lower the stats until fixed.
on top of the meta shit you have possible failsures that can't be your fault.
That feels sometimes pretty unfair to but you cant do something about it.

- getting fucked from other group while traveling
- Die in dungeon because of bug
- die in dungeon because tem mate is drunk as fuck
- die in dungeon because bad map/falling through walls and floors
- pets die in dungeon because of bad pve/mob aggro range.
- and so on

but do someone calculate that in no.

Everytime someone shittalks about inta farmign 100g an hour or something, its mostly bullshit because you have to calculate/guess many more shit in than just the time youre there and doing stuff.

I really hope that SV get thier shit together and realise thats the whole picture of the mechanics and feeling for grind matters.
 
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jbrewer

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Jul 20, 2020
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So far I'm hearing people say how there's no point or that it will turn people away, but then you have games like Tarkov with many times MO's population at its peak with an even steeper grind, and they plan on including a skill loss system in their game. Why is that? To create a hardcore environment that rewards people that play the most over the people who play casually. There is also the point of realism where if you don't "use it" you "lose it"

And the second job argument doesn't reeaaally work since the point is if you regularly use skills, you have nothing to lose. It's the ones that you train up but never use that really degrades, but if you don't use it that much, why do you care if you lose a few points in it?

And Draculina's first option sounds very reasonable for the game, increase skill gains overall but add the skill loss over time.
 

Zbuciorn

Member
Jun 3, 2020
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So far I'm hearing people say how there's no point or that it will turn people away, but then you have games like Tarkov with many times MO's population at its peak with an even steeper grind, and they plan on including a skill loss system in their game. Why is that? To create a hardcore environment that rewards people that play the most over the people who play casually. There is also the point of realism where if you don't "use it" you "lose it"

And the second job argument doesn't reeaaally work since the point is if you regularly use skills, you have nothing to lose. It's the ones that you train up but never use that really degrades, but if you don't use it that much, why do you care if you lose a few points in it?

And Draculina's first option sounds very reasonable for the game, increase skill gains overall but add the skill loss over time.
Do you want to be rewarded by punishing other players?

Mortal is about freedom of choices not pain of countless hours of grind.
In most of themeparks the end game was always doing the same dungeons to keep up with the rest of players which was more annoying than
full-loot in Mortal.

Mortal Online is perfect game for casual players becouse it does not force you to do anything but let you play the way you want it.

The world of Mortal is a dangerous one and it is for you to decide if you want to be more hardcore by taking more risk not by hours you spend in the game.
 

Neftan

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May 28, 2020
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My Mind
I agree with this suggestion, but it needs to be done carefully.

Everyone is losing their minds about hours grinding. What if instead of being so angry about it, you thought about it and provided a solution?

When unused for X time a skill could degrade. A degraded skill would have a loss of X points. You would then have another window of X time to use the skill.

If you used the skill within the X amount of time, the degrade would go away and it would be restored fully.

If you allowed a skill to remain degraded for too long, something like a cpl weeks or a month, you would have to manually reskill it from the degraded point of X skill points. However since it is a degraded skill and not an unlearned skill, you would have something like a 500% boost to XP gain.

You could also arrange it to have an npc or a player spell like rejuvenation or something, that would restore degraded skills.
 
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jbrewer

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Jul 20, 2020
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Do you want to be rewarded by punishing other players?

Mortal is about freedom of choices not pain of countless hours of grind.
In most of themeparks the end game was always doing the same dungeons to keep up with the rest of players which was more annoying than
full-loot in Mortal.

Mortal Online is perfect game for casual players becouse it does not force you to do anything but let you play the way you want it.

The world of Mortal is a dangerous one and it is for you to decide if you want to be more hardcore by taking more risk not by hours you spend in the game.
Yeah so why not just let everyone start with whatever skills they want preset to 100? That way NO ONE needs to spam backstab and triple strike to level it up over the course of a month, NO ONE needs to AFK with five rabbits to level up herding, and NO ONE needs to waste thousands of gold leveling cronite lores. The game needs some grind to reward players for their accomplishment, not instant satisfaction for all the casual players.
 

Teknique

Well-known member
Jun 15, 2020
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I agree with this suggestion, but it needs to be done carefully.

Everyone is losing their minds about hours grinding. What if instead of being so angry about it, you thought about it and provided a solution?

When unused for X time a skill could degrade. A degraded skill would have a loss of X points. You would then have another window of X time to use the skill.

If you used the skill within the X amount of time, the degrade would go away and it would be restored fully.

If you allowed a skill to remain degraded for too long, something like a cpl weeks or a month, you would have to manually reskill it from the degraded point of X skill points. However since it is a degraded skill and not an unlearned skill, you would have something like a 500% boost to XP gain.

You could also arrange it to have an npc or a player spell like rejuvenation or something, that would restore degraded skills.
What problem is this intended to solve exactly? The op wants to make your “off specs” shitty and it’s super unclear as to why. Isn’t that the point of the skill cap to limit what you can and can’t do
 
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Eldrath

Well-known member
Yeah so why not just let everyone start with whatever skills they want preset to 100? That way NO ONE needs to spam backstab and triple strike to level it up over the course of a month, NO ONE needs to AFK with five rabbits to level up herding, and NO ONE needs to waste thousands of gold leveling cronite lores. The game needs some grind to reward players for their accomplishment, not instant satisfaction for all the casual players.
If the system is like MO1 it will take considerable grind to get to 100 in any material lore. Having that waste away because you cannot get your hands on cronite seems unnecessary. If you do not use a skill those points are a dead weight and that´s penalty enough. It would make more sense to drop the skill anyway.

This sort of skill loss only punishes people who cannot log in every day. Which covers most people with responsibilities etc. so the once you want to play in a sandbox.

What is the benefit of having this mechanic? Does it add more meaningful choices? Does it add more towards the player driven economy? Does it increase the fun of bulding a character?
 
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Zbuciorn

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Yeah so why not just let everyone start with whatever skills they want preset to 100? That way NO ONE needs to spam backstab and triple strike to level it up over the course of a month, NO ONE needs to AFK with five rabbits to level up herding, and NO ONE needs to waste thousands of gold leveling cronite lores. The game needs some grind to reward players for their accomplishment, not instant satisfaction for all the casual players.
When we are skilling up crafting we are actually spending more time on getting materials and that stimulates a lot of other activities in the game.
Your definition of being hardcore player is just related to the time you spend in the game.
 

jbrewer

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Jul 20, 2020
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When we are skilling up crafting we are actually spending more time on getting materials and that stimulates a lot of other activities in the game.
Your definition of being hardcore player is just related to the time you spend in the game.
And once you hit 100 the grind is over and the amount of crafting a PvP centric player does is a fraction of what he did when he was grinding it up. By your logic, skill loss over time would be great to stimulate more diverse activities if someone wants to keep all the skills they don't use too frequently.