Stand and Deliver!

[Kaemik]

Really simple suggestion. You implement a mechanic where players have a hotkeyable action of "Stand and Deliver!" aiming at a player and activating this requires the target to stop moving and do a /droploot within a short timeframe of 5-10 seconds.

If they do not comply they are flagged to the bandit. They are also flagged if they pick up any of their own loot within a minute of activating it. When a flagged player is killed the bandit still receives a reputation loss with the local faction but cannot receive a murder count. The bandit also receives a reputation loss with the local faction for looting the dropped loot (but not for opening it and deciding not to loot).

The simple premise behind it is this encourages healthy PvP. Banditry IS healthy for a game that promises a brutal PvP-focused world. It provides both PvP content and a challenge for traders which many traders seek and enjoy. There is still some consequence via the reputation system but bandits can still use blue priests and even operate out of the territory of an opposing faction (For instance Khurite bandits raiding Tindremic areas and still living in Khurite blue towns.)

This suggestion would pair very well with a true trade system but also would enhance the game in it's current state with no additional changes.

 

[Tzone]

Stand and deliver action that makes the user criminal but blocks the target from deleting items would be great.

 

[Kaemik]

Stand and deliver action that makes the user criminal but blocks the target from deleting items would be great.

I'd prefer to see them just remove deleting items from the game entirely and replace it with the ability to drop items which delete themselves after 5 minutes of not being interacted with. Items dropped within 20 meters of another bag owned by the same player should drop into the existing bag to prevent item drop spam that greatly lowers game performance.

That being said, if they keep item deletion in, I fully agree a Stand and Deliver! should count as the player being in combat in order to prevent any kind of item deletion.

 

[ArcaneConsular]

5-10 seconds is nowhere near enough time to make a choice

 

[Kaemik]

5-10 seconds is nowhere near enough time to make a choice

You would have to basically already have thought through beforehand what you want to do when you see people ride up and deliver that command. If you give people forever to make the decision the mechanic becomes worthless because people have too much time to run before a bandit can attack. I'm imagining A LOT of people would refuse to comply but it still gives newbs an out if they don't want to get ganked all the time.

If they complied I'm guessing most serious bandits would look at the lootbag of the average newb be like "This is all trash. I'll save myself the rep hit." and ride off without taking anything.

If I'm running valuable goods I'm going to book it with my stuff even if it's 50 MAs chasing me. But I also feel like it's appropriate to not give people murder counts for that.

 

[ArcaneConsular]

You would have to basically already have thought through beforehand what you want to do when you see people ride up and deliver that command. If you give people forever to make the decision the mechanic becomes worthless because people have too much time to run before a bandit can attack. I'm imagining A LOT of people would refuse to comply but it still gives newbs an out if they don't want to get ganked all the time.

If they complied I'm guessing most serious bandits would look at the lootbag of the average newb be like "This is all trash. I'll save myself the rep hit." and ride off without taking anything.

If I'm running valuable goods I'm going to book it with my stuff even if it's 50 MAs chasing me. But I also feel like it's appropriate to not give people murder counts for that.

And what if they demand your loot and kill you anyways?

 

[Kaemik]

And what if they demand your loot and kill you anyways?

Then they get a murder count because the system only flags them if they refuse to comply. I actually could see implementing further penalties if they murder someone who complies. Potentially even disabling it for people who abuse it.

 

[Amadman]

I may be missing something here but wouldn't this command just be forcing people grey?

I also can't understand how a person would be free to kill just because they did not heed the demands of a bandit.

It does not seem to make sense.


Not saying that I don't like the idea of bandits. But I do not think players should be given a free pass to do so without risks.

 

[Kaemik]

I may be missing something here but wouldn't this command just be forcing people grey?

I also can't understand how a person would be free to kill just because they did not heed the demands of a bandit.

It does not seem to make sense.


Not saying that I don't like the idea of bandits. But I do not think players should be given a free pass to do so without risks.

The reputation loss is the risk. That's what you're missing. It only removes the murder count. So if you frequently operate as a bandit in a certain area you'll trash your reputation with that faction and not be allowed in their towns. If you frequently operate as a bandit everywhere you would trash your reputation with every faction but still be allowed to use blue priests in unguarded town. (Which currently exist in JC an CC for... some unknown reason)

 

[Jatix]

The issue with this is if you drop loot and lose everything, you arent any better off than being dead. You cant do anything in this game without gear really. Maybe they wotn dry loot you but this is MO. 95% of people will just take everything even if its shit. Also they can still kill you after if they really want, all they get is the MC and you were an easier kill because you didnt have gear to fight back.

 

[Kaemik]

The issue with this is if you drop loot and lose everything, you arent any better off than being dead. You cant do anything in this game without gear really. Maybe they wotn dry loot you but this is MO. 95% of people will just take everything even if its shit. Also they can still kill you after if they really want, all they get is the MC and you were an easier kill because you didnt have gear to fight back.

This is a huge reason why I said the reputation hit only is applied if they take items from you but not if they look at your gear and decide to take nothing. I do assume that in a large number of cases they would indeed take/delete everything just to be a dick. (Another good argument for removing item deletion and replacing it with item dropping btw) But I also imagine a great many might look at the gear the average newb is carrying around and just be like "Nah, that's not worth it." You surrendering after a "Stand and Deliver!" already provided them with the win they were looking for.

The point of a system like this is simple. Banditry is a legitimate playstyle. Should it carry some downsides that make life harder? Sure. Should it be treated as harshly as the game currently treats reds? No. Not at all IMO. This system isn't really designed to protect you as a vet player with nice gear.


It's more meant to provide players who want to PvP with alternatives to camping graveyards for newbs. There are lesser downsides to being a bandit than being a murderhobo and I think that adds a good layer of complexity to the game's PvP.

 

[Grey]

players have a hotkeyable action of "Stand and Deliver!" aiming at a player and activating this requires the target to stop moving and do a /droploot within a short timeframe of 5-10 seconds.

So... You decide to rob somebody target him with "Stand and Deliver!" and if he wont comply he is going grey? ROFL
Would not it be easier just to put delay on destroying items? Just make trash can icon in corner of inventory as it done in Darkfall

 

[Kaemik]

if he wont comply he is going grey?

Learn to read. I'm not explaining it for a third time just because you're illiterate.

 

[grendel]

I like the idea behind this, but I think it is very easy to exploit. I believe a simpler solution is to put a timer on deleting items if you are on a horse, if you have been hit and if you are in the wilderness.
Deleting items is really bad sportsmanship. And the possibility to do so in combat result in so much meaningless violence against horses and players. A timer would allow bandits to start a dialogue.

 

[Jatix]

I liek the make it so you drop items not delete them. This game loves to try and pretend its realistic (when its not). But one of the many unrealistic things, is magically 'breaking' a steel chestplate in your hands in 1 second and having no remains. You shouldnt be able to break anything, just drop it. This also fixes the issue if accidentally going over weight looting. You cant break stolen items so you are just screwed.

 

[Grey]

Learn to read. I'm not explaining it for a third time just because you're illiterate.

Really?
Or maybe its impossible to defend your stupid position aimed to avoid responsibility for your actions.
You want to "eat cake and have it". Are not you? RPKing is legit/valuable game style indeed so play it as it intended.
PKing as it is now easy enough and profitable. You have huge advantage of initiative, short flag timer, lawless towns etc but its not enough for you
P.S. I'm against deleting items but simple delay would solve it

 

[Tzone]

Being red is harsh. Most players cant be red but the game forces you to go red if you engage in consensual PvP.

Its not that being red is easier, because its not. Its that the rep/murder system is trash and chains down people to willfully hold them selves back in order to stay in town as a blue player.

What kaemik is suggesting boils down to just a flaging system that identifies the user as someone who is about to attack a player.
This gets rid of the need for the blue player to hold back and first hit needing to be done by the aggressor issue. In exchange for being hitable by everyone and alerting the target you do not receive MCs.

Most noobs that complain about the open world PvP complain that they cant tell if a person is bad because they are blue name and that the bandit have first hit advantage because of the horrible rep/mc flagging system. This would solve both of those issues for that type of player.

Im not for or against his suggestion right now. But people seem to not grasp what hes saying for some reason.

 

[Amadman]

The reputation loss is the risk. That's what you're missing. It only removes the murder count. So if you frequently operate as a bandit in a certain area you'll trash your reputation with that faction and not be allowed in their towns. If you frequently operate as a bandit everywhere you would trash your reputation with every faction but still be allowed to use blue priests in unguarded town. (Which currently exist in JC an CC for... some unknown reason)

Maybe the stand and deliver action would just put a timer on the deletion of items?


In addition they could possible make a new action where players can volunteer to show their inventory.

Kind of like the snoop mechanic in the first game.

However no flagging would be involved and it would not leave the victim defenseless if they complied.


This would give the option for bandits to request it like drop loot.

As well as being usable in other situations. Like showing what you have for sale or something like that.

It would just have to be consensual somehow so it could not be spammed.


A victim could then choose to comply or not with no consequences other than how the bandit chooses to respond.

If they do comply then the bandit could request an Item/Items.

The player could choose to give it up or again accept the consequences.


If the other player is not willing to turn it over then the bandit could decide if it was worth trying to kill them for it.


Of coarse the bandit could still kill them after they give up items. But that is MO.

 

[Grey]

Being red is harsh. Most players cant be red but the game forces you to go red if you engage in consensual PvP.

Its not that being red is easier, because its not. Its that the rep/murder system is trash and chains down people to willfully hold them selves back in order to stay in town as a blue player.

What kaemik is suggesting boils down to just a flaging system that identifies the user as someone who is about to attack a player.
This gets rid of the need for the blue player to hold back and first hit needing to be done by the aggressor issue. In exchange for being hitable by everyone and alerting the target you do not receive MCs.

Most noobs that complain about the open world PvP complain that they cant tell if a person is bad because they are blue name and that the bandit have first hit advantage because of the horrible rep/mc flagging system. This would solve both of those issues for that type of player.

Im not for or against his suggestion right now. But people seem to not grasp what hes saying for some reason.

First hit is significant advantage but RPK's initiative include much more. Its time, place and condition of fight. I dont think OP suggestion will give any bonuses to blue player. In fact one of the most common tactics of RPKs is provocation and OP just add one more effective tool.
You are almost right - "Most players cant be red but the game forces you to go red if you engage in consensual PvP"
I'd say that a lot of player dont want to be RPK and go red but because shty flagging RPK are often mix of blue/grey and lawful players forced to enable criminal on and OP proposition make it even worse

 

[Emdash]

5-10 seconds is nowhere near enough time to make a choice

Veela ---->>> haha. That's your choice. O word - runs -