Risk Vs Reward & Combat Balancing in Full loot MMO's.

fartbox

Active member
Apr 29, 2023
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im not a fan of Albion because there motto was " you are what you wear" did not feel like real character progression. Item based pvp verry small skill gap less then league of legends i would say.
I didn't like it either, but I did put 1000 hours into it and it is objectively good. I really liked Darkfalls combat the best, then OSRS is a close second (it has a surprisingly high skill-cap). But Darkfall is dead and OSRS is 20 years old; the reasons why OSRS is still here and darkfall is not is that OSRS made sure the unit of 1 was winning before it worried about anything else. Darkfall suffered from many of the same design choices that Mortal is.

EVE circumvents the unit of 1 by making the PVP almost consensual at all times with cloaks,local and DSCAN.
 

Emdash

Well-known member
Sep 22, 2021
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No im not. The guy is saying he would never play Albion because the "good fights" are not "good"; Albion is objectively good, it is objectively better then MO2. How do i know that? Measurement, metrics, the census, the playercount. He said the "good fights" are not good without even experiencing them...but they are and they are objectively better then MO2 and it can be proven.

It's not my job to figure out all the angles. I don't really care if MO2 can't house more then a few thousand players. It still needs more then it has now, because the world feels dead when theres only 700 players in game. I told you why MO2 doesn't have players and I told you how to get more players into MO2. That's all i'm really concerned with.

We need a bottom-up approach to create an environment where people have the opportunity to win. Mortal 2 needs more winners if its going to succeed itself. The current meta around everything from combat, to resurrection points, to horses, to banking, to dungeons is top-heavy.

We need to figure out how to get the most basic unit of 1 winning. After that we can get more complex, but until we iron out the basics the game will struggle.

I honestly dunno who you are. I see your forum name is fartbox, and all I can infer from that is that you either don't want to be judged by your name or you don't like making names. I dunno if you have some special pathway to Henrik's heart, but if you do, I would talk to you, until you can see things like I do, or at least see why I see things the way I do.

Some of the stuff you say is just wrong. Objectively good. Even if objectively good WAS something, you can't do what you think which is take something that is 'objectively good' and siphon those parts and add them to another game. If it was that easy, every game would be good, or every game would be THE SAME.

It cannot be proven lol. You don't even know what a good fight is? A good fight could be a fight that FEELS like you are actually fighting. That would be what I define as a good fight. I told Tek that I like archery even tho it's busted, and I shoot w/ the handicapped arrow tip aim because it FEELS like you are pulling a bow and when you put a shot thru someone's head, it's extremely satisfying.

(story interlude) I was running some mats back from a house when I played, and I had dec'd IVI guild cuz of some crap they did. Anyway, I was going down around that area up N where the bear is outside of that sort of lookout tower, going down toward Hyl, and I saw one of the war dec guys. I was high af cuz why not MO is trash right, but I pull off this epic ranged head shot, thru the window, right thru his fuckin temple and then proceed to body him. Of course, I'm not losing my horse and the gab mats, but I dropped him off. In the end, the head shot was not worth much because we were fighting for dismount, but it was just a 'get some' moment. It felt really good. I can't imagine getting that feeling in Albion. And I am pretty sure dude is/was a hacker. haha. Yet another bonus other games have over MO, no BS.

I could go on and tell other stories, but they are probably boring... there aren't too many because I was constantly doing my own thing most of the time, but when I knew things were going down, I got involved. I am that fabled unit 1 player, since MO1... and all I do is win. Haha. It's different cuz you say but ur not good at dueling... and that's where the disconnect is. That's a very small portion of the game to someone who is 'actually playing MO.'

Team fights in MO where gear is fair-ish, where it's not lagging to hell, actually feel pretty good... it's just rare to have something like that unfold and stay that way. And it's over fast, usually. If you get in that 'looking for a good fight' mindset, it's like doing solo queue esports level basketball, constant disappointment waiting for a game to unfold right. But once you have felt it, you know what it's like, so you fiend for it. Same w/ good fights for dudes who play MO, I'm sure. For me, I can get enjoyment out of doing many different things, but I def know the 'good fight' feeling, too.

I can't objectively prove it, but I can pretty easily explain why the feeling of beating someone's ass in MO is more satisfying than it is in Albion, and I haven't played that, either. I only played LoL briefly if you wanna talk about a thousand or two hours in a game back when the game was actually good. That kinda combat just can't compare to what MO has. It's not even on the same level. Yeah, there is a lot of nuance and a lot of mechanics that make it complex, but MO could have those, too, they have just let their game degrade in a lot of ways. MO is first person and it is designed (I assume) to feel like you are actually the one fighting. Controlling something from top down is never gonna be that way. Nothing compares to having to turn your body to look. There is so much possible with MO, but they are just blowing it.

You are right on that, that the situation is dire. If you actually cared about the game or had some in for getting it fixed, I would spend more time discussing this with you, but I dunno if you do. It seems you have a very short sighted view of how things are, that you believe certain things are true that are much too complex to fall within true/false.

I want MO to be good, but I've mostly given up on them listening. If they are going to continue to listen to a lot of the crap people say, it's not gonna work. Somebody can say my suggestions are bad, and maybe they are, but I always outline what I am trying to aim for and why, and I don't think people do that very well when they are making suggestions, or when they do they are largely ignored.

So, in short, TLDR, you're not wrong with a lot of your assessment, but it's very shallow and you don't really understand (imo) what winning in a game like MO actually is. Winning is existing. It's creating a system of success. The less there is, the harder it is, but a bunch of us who play MO don't have that 'give up' gene. That's not why I let all my shit fall to taxes lol. It's because the game kept adding dumbass balance changes without thinking (things as large as moving casting and tower shields without really thinking about how the game will be affected,) or new magic schools that skew everything...

I'm a unit of 1 and there are tons of people I could have hit up to go with into a dungeon if that was what I wanted to do, but then things would get hairy like... who gets the loot, etc. I don't want just the experience of a dungeon, so I didn't do ANY big bosses. That's why I said the basic unit of MO currency is GRANUM if you wanna talk about 1 unit shite and break stuff down on that level, that's what I got for you. And the fact that the economy is off is an issure, sure, but it's because they wanted to add in 'large scope MMO' mechanics like supar magikz, soulbound trinkets, and big dungeon bosses. Pre-walls MO1, there was still a big discrepancy between 1 unit and a group, but it only took max 2 people to do pretty much all of the content in the game. I never did Kimuru(sp?) They did fuck that up. I agree, but that doesn't have anything to do with good fights lol.

Also shout out to the orange text, I guess shit is getting realer now.