Reputation system needs serious rework

[Vrenmar]

Current reputation system is beyond broken. Right now the way its designed it encourages griefing and giving murder counts and not actual pvp.

Today I must have given 10 murder counts to some guy we were fighting with in vadda Bank area and that was just me other guildies gave him many as well. We naked rush him resetting his timer and dying to him sometimes on purpose to stack counts and get him expelled from vadda.

My recommendation is to change reputation loss to only effect murders occuring within a short radius of town. Encompassing the graveyard and the immediate surrounding to deter noob clubing and thats it. Any murders way out in the wilderness where there are no guards should be considered lawless areas and won't cause rep loss.

As it is if you kill someone in the middle of nowhere on meduli plains or deep in vadda forest you will lose rep not on where the kill was made but which priest they choose to spawn at. The system makes zero sense and is ripe for gaming.

If reputation loss only occurred relatively close to town it would encourage more people to pvp in the open world, keep the murder system and its current consequences but decouple it from rep loss when outside of town.

Also the reputation system should be expanded to include horses killed in town. Right now the meta is to be naked and fulminate people's horses at the bank or kill them with throwaway bone tissue longbow which cost nothing. Even if you die to guards it doesn't matter because you can res again in 120 seconds and do it again repeatedly just killing horses for days without longterm consequence.

Committing suicide should also count as actual suicide and not allow you to give murder counts. If you take a handle hit from someone accidentally just bank your gear and suicide and give them a count and rep hit.

Thanks for your consideration SV. Let's get the game toward encouraging actual pvp and less town jebaiting and horse sniping shenanigans.

Ps. Fix the vadda bank small characters can get behind bank counter and snipe people at the bank from stairs without getting guard aggro since there is no path for them to reach.

 

[Woody]

The murder/rep system definitely needs some work.

My thoughts are (and I've mentioned this in another post) is that Murdercount should only apply when:

• a player finishes off another player in mercy mode.
• a player has put the other player into mercy mode, and they then die from any source of dmg (e.g animal).
• a player has inflicted damage of between 5%-100% of your max HP (so handle hits are negated) - the more damage you deal to them the longer the duration for the MC to clear e.g exponentially:
  • 5% = 2 mins (prevents handle hits)
  • 10% = 4 mins
  • 20% = 8 mins
  • 40% = 16 mins
  • 80%+ = 32 mins

Additionally:

• Murdercount timer should also not refresh on a new MC but should remain as it is in terms of it requires game time to count down. This is good as it prevents people just logging off characters for periods of time if they multi account.
• Horses/pets should by default share all eligibility of crime/murder as if you were hitting the player that owns it. Likewise pets should flag the owner for the same when attacking.
• Criminal Flag/Murder Eligibility flag should also share with:
  • a) players that heals you
  • b) players that complete (finalize and finish) a trade with you
• Reds (murderers) should be able to fight back in defense if attacked in town without guard repercussion - but only if hit first by the other player(s). Local grey in this respect also needs to be a thing so that there is a risk the attacking player still loses their gear if they should die to the player who defends.
• Finally, when you die to another player as a blue (non-murderer), the server needs to evaluate the closest blue priest to your position and should you then death run across the map to another region, it should then remember which priest you died at - removing reputation from the murderers in that region.
• EDIT: Murderers should be able to res in a blue GY so long as their reputation is positive.

This reputation system is actually not a bad mechanic per se given that it should encourage players not to PK blue players in your "home" region (e.g the region that you're "mostly" playing out of) and instead target players in other regions of the game. This means travelling out of your region and PKing (losing rep with places you don't care about losing rep with) or otherwise, not giving a shit and living out of lawless towns. Furthermore, Rep in your main town/city should naturally increase as they add more ways to gain reputation with as currently its only risars and negative rep players of that region. Finally, all reputation should passively increase over time if below 5 as this makes sense that the "people" of these regions forget about your "deeds".

 

[Vrenmar]

The murder/rep system definitely needs some work.

My thoughts are (and I've mentioned this in another post) is that Murdercount should only apply when:

• a player finishes off another player in mercy mode.
• a player has put the other player into mercy mode, and they then die from any source of dmg (e.g animal).
• a player has inflicted damage of between 5%-100% of your max HP (so handle hits are negated) - the more damage you deal to them the longer the duration for the MC to clear e.g exponentially:
  • 5% = 2 mins (prevents handle hits)
  • 10% = 4 mins
  • 20% = 8 mins
  • 40% = 16 mins
  • 80%+ = 32 mins

Murdercount timer should also not refresh on a new MC but should remain as it is in terms of it requires game time to count down. This is good as it prevents people just logging off characters for periods of time if they multi account.

Horses/pets should by default share all eligibility of crime/murder as if you were hitting the player that owns it. Likewise pets should flag the owner for the same when attacking.

Criminal Flag/Murder Eligibility flag should also share with:

a) players that heals you
b) players that complete (finalize and finish) a trade with you

Finally, when you die to another player as a blue (non-murderer), the server needs to evaluate the closest blue priest to your position and should you then death run across the map to another region, it should then remember which priest you died at - removing reputation from the murderers in that region.

This reputation system is actually not a bad mechanic per se given that it should encourage players not to PK blue players in your "home" region (e.g the region that you're "mostly" playing out of) and instead target players in other regions of the game. This means travelling out of your region and PKing (losing rep with places you don't care about losing rep with) or otherwise, not giving a shit and living out of lawless towns. Furthermore, Rep in your main town/city should naturally increase as they add more ways to gain reputation with as currently its only risars and negative rep players of that region. Finally, all reputation should passively increase over time if below 5 as this makes sense that the "people" of these regions forget about your "deeds".

I totally forgot to mention the pets and healing not sharing criminal timer. Thanks for bringing that point up. You could bring a bear into town and start attacking people with it and if they defend themselves they could be guard whacked from going criminal. It is the ultimate griefer paradise atm and though I have helped kill many horses in vadda today belonging to enemy guilds I don't believe it is good for the health of the game.

The problem with region based reputation is there is no clear way to tell which region your in. Halfway between vadda and meduli which would you lose rep at? Will there be a system message saying you entered the lands under sarduca protection That's why a small radius around town would work best but maybe they can figure out another solution.

 

[Woody]

I totally forgot to mention the pets and healing not sharing criminal timer. Thanks for bringing that point up. You could bring a bear into town and start attacking people with it and if they defend themselves they could be guard whacked from going criminal. It is the ultimate griefer paradise atm and though I have helped kill many horses in vadda today belonging to enemy guilds I don't believe it is good for the health of the game.

The problem with region based reputation is there is no clear way to tell which region your in. Halfway between vadda and meduli which would you lose rep at? Will there be a system message saying you entered the lands under sarduca protection That's why a small radius around town would work best but maybe they can figure out another solution.

That is a good point and I'm not entirely sure as to the best technical implementation of it as well as what makes the most logical sense when determining what region you're in. At the very least, it may be as simple as a dialogue prompt at your aim/cursor or it might be a thing that ties into maps and the future cartography profession so that you're able to safely check the "region" you're in. Seems like the latter could be an interesting addition to give cartography flavor and purpose.

 

[LivingshadeNL]

Good feedback +1

 

[Truthshower]

lol. complains about a system but is purposefully using it in an unintended way to get people out of a town. maybe u should just get good instead of feeding kills to a guy as a naked

 

[Kebek]

The ability to give a murder count should be on a timer. You shouldn't be able to give a murdercount to someone who hit you 2 hours ago.

Flagging system needs a rework. There is no reason to be red in Fabernum for killing people in Bak-Ti. Why would guards stop protecting someone who did nothing wrong in their own city? Are we outlawing people now for fighting in rival towns?

 

[Evelyn]

The ability to give a murder count should be on a timer. You shouldn't be able to give a murdercount to someone who hit you 2 hours ago.

Flagging system needs a rework. There is no reason to be red in Fabernum for killing people in Bak-Ti. Why would guards stop protecting someone who did nothing wrong in their own city? Are we outlawing people now for fighting in rival towns?

It's a bit frustrating really, people have been pointing out the flaws with the rep system since it was first introduced and before it even had any real in-game application.

Anyway bump for making this system less easy to abuse. People need set regions they belong to and shouldn't be able to give you rep loss when invading your region.

 

[Vrenmar]

lol. complains about a system but is purposefully using it in an unintended way to get people out of a town. maybe u should just get good instead of feeding kills to a guy as a naked

I am merely testing the limits of the bad mechanics and reporting broken stuff so it can be fixed before launch. This is the entire point of a beta test. If nobody brought it up, SV wouldn't notice how bad it is and would cause lots of griefing day 1 and affect player retention.

 

[Bernfred]

needs replacement thx

 

[Vrenmar]

Looks like GM intervened on the horse issue, so atleast some progress is being made. Another point I would like bring up is the report murder window appears on resurrect not on death, why? If the game allowed you to report a murder right when you turned into a ghost, they could easily add say a 5 minute time window to report it, which would fix the issue of getting a murder count 2 hours later by someone who previously handle hit you, as he died to a wolf. This would have the negative side effect of being able to kill longterm AFK players without any penelty, however its just a simple solution I suggested a more complex one could probably solve it as mentioned by @Woody.

 

[Skkyner]

The entire reputation/flagging system seems to be broken and needs fixing asap. Fights outside of towns are stupid as you can't even see who's red/grey, I'm racking up murdercounts from fighting PKers because despite them obviously rolling with a red group, I can't tell if they themselves are red or blue so I end up hitting them.

 

[Kuroi]

 

[Jackdstripper]

But, but Henrik. We’ve been hearing the “not finished, will be fixed soon” line since 2010 bro...