Now that the debate on if Alvarins are op has been settled, I see no pushback on the idea that they are, which means I was right like 8 months ago when I said they were way better than Thursars and that Thursar nerfs would ruin the game even more, well there you go now we can see they are the only thing being played and we are at like 400 despite Sarducca coming in like 2 weeks lol.
Anyway - Whoever the balance guy in Starvault is, you have to lock in now, people will cry about stuff that does not need nerfs. Archery is the biggest one, bows are super easy to make super accesible early game and Alvarin foot archer is overpowered AS ARE ALL ALVARIN BUILDS, so you need to not just blindly nerf bows, which are not an outlier or OP because 3 out of 4 races rarely use them, instead you should nerf the outliers Alvarins which EVERYONE uses for every build.
You shouldnt nerf a thing that an outlier uses well, you should nerf the outlier.
The most popular footie, mage, archer, hybrid, mounted builds are ALL Alvarin some, like bows are exclusively Alvarins. You cannot nerf a weapon that is not OP that is not even used often or to a high degree by 3 out of 4 races because 1 race that is already best at everything uses that weapon uniquely good too, instead just nerf THE Alvarin.
Alvarins make great archers and mages, unbeatable even because they can infinitely kite non Alvarins ans keep damaging them, its inherent, its obvious.
I cannot even call it PvP its really PvE when you have infinite stamina, good ranged damage and more speed on top of 2 get out of jail free cards, you just should never lose.
So what we need here is not Archery nerfs or 100th magic nerfs (death hand nerf did NOTHING, it was bad even)
We need an Alvarin nerf
We need to get rid of armor pierce that was added when trinkets, masteries, defensive stance % modifier and adamant (later completely removed btw) thosr modifiers used to stack on top of armor and shields making steel into tungsteel+ with it, akh bond worked outside zvz where you hide your pet, there was no abilities, there was no double damage rings, there was no abilities.
Steel Thurdar with akh bond and good trinks back then was tankier to physical dmg than a Thursar in full plate divinium is now. Numbers back this up too even if you remove abilities and weakspot out the equation.
Lets start with trinkets and masteries for defense now they just reduce the damage at the end of the calculation. So steel used to be lets say 66 pierce +10% (7% trinket+3% mastery lets say) that'd be 72.6 defense, which would reduce damage by 21%, now it'd be 10%, huge deal especially given the fact that people had worse damage trinkets, people had akh bond, mages used tower shields , there was no abilities etc. Thursars with adamant good trinkets and def stance could get to 66+21% so like 80 defense on steel and then -3 with def stance and -20% with akh bond if some dmg went through, I mean its night and day difference, sword Alvarins used to genuinely hit 10-16s on sweetspot hit vs steel, if I had to guess people are like 50-70% less tanky to physical dmg now, especially Thursars and mages, yes dex mage evade tanking you and not allowing you to hit 1 ability isnt true tankiness if they stood still and tried to actually tank like fatmages back in the day they would instaflop, fatmages would also instaflop but nobody plays them anymore so you wouldnt know.
So armor pierce was added when people were bunch tankier and there was no abilities and the best part it wasnt needed even then Alvarins were very popular its just that another race was also played so Alvarin mains had to cry themselves into a buff, thered be like 3 different streamers on during mastery patch and all their stream names would be "please buff alvarin or Im gonna swallow razors", no kidding now, Mendo, Nausk, J45k etc. used to do 10 hour streams of crying for Alvarin buffs, they are all gone now after they and the other people killed balance, it was the biggest psy op ever to a point where smart individuals who dont play Alvarin would look at AT LEAST second most popular race thats still super dominant solo and unkillable and go "man they need a giant buff they are useless" holy...
Then they buffed Alvarins, then nerfed all defense modifiers, THEN BUFFED ALVARINS AGAIN BTW added 30 stamina flat which made dex mages absurd, then added abilities, then nerfed akh bond, then fixed a bug that made bows do way less damage to players, so now bows are in too, then nerfed (removed) adamant and in the same patch gave everyone 10 hp which you guessed it is the biggest buff for Alvarins (lowest hp and sustain therefore biggest buff % wise by far) then made double dmg trinkets pretty obtainable and made 1 max dmg type trinks pretty much entrance level.
Now almost everyone is an Alvarin, they are the most popular clade choice for all builds, in all scale, and they ruin small scale completely for all the other races.
The nerfs are needed for all their builds so I will just name a few reasonable nerfs that could be combined to get Alvarins to not be dominating the meta so much:
1. Removal of 1.25% passive speed/15stam clades x2
There is 2 of those they were always absurd Alvarins have way too high of combat power now, they already get highest dex and 2 get out of jail free cards those need to go.
2. Armor pierce removed OR turned to 25-40% healing reduction
I think the post explains why armor pierce has to go, absolutely busted especially with bows, IF you do healing reduction, then you will need to buff offensive magic spells.
3. Alvarin sight removal
- it excuses cheaters and ruins immersion, its utility is unparalleled by any other clade, though all the utility clades are on Alvarins lol.
4. All stamina regen modifiers - gone.
Alvarin with 50 tam can outrun an infinite stamina Thursar or Oghmir because the speed advantage and stam regen advantage he has gives him an opportunity to make enough distance to regain enough stamina and just keep making that same amount of distance or larger before the other guy gets to them.
If anything they could use stamina regen modifier that reduces it for Alvarins not increases it.
5. -15 attribute points -15 raw con to Veela and Sheevra.
They have 227/180ish hp now and the highest stam with meta trinkets and builds, you cannot burst them down anymore chasing them is completely impossible. Just remove their con they have more HP than Oghmirs had when I started playing. Sheevras have same HP and more stamina than human paladins in 2022 LOL. As crazy as this sounds they used to have 90 hp I distinctly remember.
6. -15 raw int -15 attribute points
Speed + range combo is op and Alvarins genuinely make better archers and mages than footies if the game was balanced, but footies are just a way better option rn (proven by the fact that non Alvarin footie to mage+archer ratio is like 9-1???
So Alvarins could use an int nerf if we decide Alvarin footies are overnerfed but mages are still an issue or finally balanced, then they need a direct nerf.
7. Reduction of their archer strength requirement modifiers
- same reasoning as above but for archers instead of mages. If archery is not OP on Thursar Oghmir or Human, do not nerf archery as a whole just nerf Alvarin archery capabilities.
Those do not ALL need to go live, and obviously numbers can be changed but a combination of those is needed to balance them. Keep in mind footfighters are OP but Alvarins make such phenomenal mages and archers that those 2 are useable too so you gotta nerf ALL alvarin builds but try to nerf archers and mages a bit more and then if needed general magic and archery buffs could come in. Having 1 single clade be the only viable archer or mage because they can just permakite and do same or more dmg is absurd. Balance all clades.
So nerf Alvarins, pick 3-5 of those nerfs I suggested, cut back or nerf more if needed.
I personally would start with nerfs 1, 2, 3 and 6 and go from there.
If you did all 7 nerfs they would probably be balanaced but ik you guys wont nerf them that hard and people cannot accept that they are THAT op, so id be fine with 3-5 of those. Any nerfs other than what I suggested dont really make much sense or any of those individually other than 1. ont make sense eithsr wont do much.
As for the MAs, they were OP before they added abilities because nothing but EQ works against them and you basically becone a 1000 speed infinite stam 350-750 hp archer that cant go to dungeon with it If archery is even viablr MA if you make it literally same as archery will be OP thats such a no brainer LOL.
To fix it, just remove the ability to use abilities and nerf weakspot massively or even remove it, bows do damage now after the bugfix they do not need mauls damage that ruins pets and footies. MA was stronger than MM and MC before you gave it abilities its nuts that decision... So yeah mounted dmg needs to be weaker than on foot dmg, just like MM and MC is weaker than footie or magic damage, archery needs to be weaker too or either MA will always be OP or bows will always be shit on foot, very simple concept, imagine if you could ride around and just use shock on a Mount riding a Molva, or use breaking blows with a maul and feint with it on a Taur dog or something lmao, its even worse because MC needs to get close so even with that theres some outplay, with MA there is none.
So yrah MA just remove abilies and then nerf weakspot, MA is way way too good now.
Anyway - Whoever the balance guy in Starvault is, you have to lock in now, people will cry about stuff that does not need nerfs. Archery is the biggest one, bows are super easy to make super accesible early game and Alvarin foot archer is overpowered AS ARE ALL ALVARIN BUILDS, so you need to not just blindly nerf bows, which are not an outlier or OP because 3 out of 4 races rarely use them, instead you should nerf the outliers Alvarins which EVERYONE uses for every build.
You shouldnt nerf a thing that an outlier uses well, you should nerf the outlier.
The most popular footie, mage, archer, hybrid, mounted builds are ALL Alvarin some, like bows are exclusively Alvarins. You cannot nerf a weapon that is not OP that is not even used often or to a high degree by 3 out of 4 races because 1 race that is already best at everything uses that weapon uniquely good too, instead just nerf THE Alvarin.
Alvarins make great archers and mages, unbeatable even because they can infinitely kite non Alvarins ans keep damaging them, its inherent, its obvious.
I cannot even call it PvP its really PvE when you have infinite stamina, good ranged damage and more speed on top of 2 get out of jail free cards, you just should never lose.
So what we need here is not Archery nerfs or 100th magic nerfs (death hand nerf did NOTHING, it was bad even)
We need an Alvarin nerf
We need to get rid of armor pierce that was added when trinkets, masteries, defensive stance % modifier and adamant (later completely removed btw) thosr modifiers used to stack on top of armor and shields making steel into tungsteel+ with it, akh bond worked outside zvz where you hide your pet, there was no abilities, there was no double damage rings, there was no abilities.
Steel Thurdar with akh bond and good trinks back then was tankier to physical dmg than a Thursar in full plate divinium is now. Numbers back this up too even if you remove abilities and weakspot out the equation.
Lets start with trinkets and masteries for defense now they just reduce the damage at the end of the calculation. So steel used to be lets say 66 pierce +10% (7% trinket+3% mastery lets say) that'd be 72.6 defense, which would reduce damage by 21%, now it'd be 10%, huge deal especially given the fact that people had worse damage trinkets, people had akh bond, mages used tower shields , there was no abilities etc. Thursars with adamant good trinkets and def stance could get to 66+21% so like 80 defense on steel and then -3 with def stance and -20% with akh bond if some dmg went through, I mean its night and day difference, sword Alvarins used to genuinely hit 10-16s on sweetspot hit vs steel, if I had to guess people are like 50-70% less tanky to physical dmg now, especially Thursars and mages, yes dex mage evade tanking you and not allowing you to hit 1 ability isnt true tankiness if they stood still and tried to actually tank like fatmages back in the day they would instaflop, fatmages would also instaflop but nobody plays them anymore so you wouldnt know.
So armor pierce was added when people were bunch tankier and there was no abilities and the best part it wasnt needed even then Alvarins were very popular its just that another race was also played so Alvarin mains had to cry themselves into a buff, thered be like 3 different streamers on during mastery patch and all their stream names would be "please buff alvarin or Im gonna swallow razors", no kidding now, Mendo, Nausk, J45k etc. used to do 10 hour streams of crying for Alvarin buffs, they are all gone now after they and the other people killed balance, it was the biggest psy op ever to a point where smart individuals who dont play Alvarin would look at AT LEAST second most popular race thats still super dominant solo and unkillable and go "man they need a giant buff they are useless" holy...
Then they buffed Alvarins, then nerfed all defense modifiers, THEN BUFFED ALVARINS AGAIN BTW added 30 stamina flat which made dex mages absurd, then added abilities, then nerfed akh bond, then fixed a bug that made bows do way less damage to players, so now bows are in too, then nerfed (removed) adamant and in the same patch gave everyone 10 hp which you guessed it is the biggest buff for Alvarins (lowest hp and sustain therefore biggest buff % wise by far) then made double dmg trinkets pretty obtainable and made 1 max dmg type trinks pretty much entrance level.
Now almost everyone is an Alvarin, they are the most popular clade choice for all builds, in all scale, and they ruin small scale completely for all the other races.
The nerfs are needed for all their builds so I will just name a few reasonable nerfs that could be combined to get Alvarins to not be dominating the meta so much:
1. Removal of 1.25% passive speed/15stam clades x2
There is 2 of those they were always absurd Alvarins have way too high of combat power now, they already get highest dex and 2 get out of jail free cards those need to go.
2. Armor pierce removed OR turned to 25-40% healing reduction
I think the post explains why armor pierce has to go, absolutely busted especially with bows, IF you do healing reduction, then you will need to buff offensive magic spells.
3. Alvarin sight removal
- it excuses cheaters and ruins immersion, its utility is unparalleled by any other clade, though all the utility clades are on Alvarins lol.
4. All stamina regen modifiers - gone.
Alvarin with 50 tam can outrun an infinite stamina Thursar or Oghmir because the speed advantage and stam regen advantage he has gives him an opportunity to make enough distance to regain enough stamina and just keep making that same amount of distance or larger before the other guy gets to them.
If anything they could use stamina regen modifier that reduces it for Alvarins not increases it.
5. -15 attribute points -15 raw con to Veela and Sheevra.
They have 227/180ish hp now and the highest stam with meta trinkets and builds, you cannot burst them down anymore chasing them is completely impossible. Just remove their con they have more HP than Oghmirs had when I started playing. Sheevras have same HP and more stamina than human paladins in 2022 LOL. As crazy as this sounds they used to have 90 hp I distinctly remember.
6. -15 raw int -15 attribute points
Speed + range combo is op and Alvarins genuinely make better archers and mages than footies if the game was balanced, but footies are just a way better option rn (proven by the fact that non Alvarin footie to mage+archer ratio is like 9-1???
So Alvarins could use an int nerf if we decide Alvarin footies are overnerfed but mages are still an issue or finally balanced, then they need a direct nerf.
7. Reduction of their archer strength requirement modifiers
- same reasoning as above but for archers instead of mages. If archery is not OP on Thursar Oghmir or Human, do not nerf archery as a whole just nerf Alvarin archery capabilities.
Those do not ALL need to go live, and obviously numbers can be changed but a combination of those is needed to balance them. Keep in mind footfighters are OP but Alvarins make such phenomenal mages and archers that those 2 are useable too so you gotta nerf ALL alvarin builds but try to nerf archers and mages a bit more and then if needed general magic and archery buffs could come in. Having 1 single clade be the only viable archer or mage because they can just permakite and do same or more dmg is absurd. Balance all clades.
So nerf Alvarins, pick 3-5 of those nerfs I suggested, cut back or nerf more if needed.
I personally would start with nerfs 1, 2, 3 and 6 and go from there.
If you did all 7 nerfs they would probably be balanaced but ik you guys wont nerf them that hard and people cannot accept that they are THAT op, so id be fine with 3-5 of those. Any nerfs other than what I suggested dont really make much sense or any of those individually other than 1. ont make sense eithsr wont do much.
As for the MAs, they were OP before they added abilities because nothing but EQ works against them and you basically becone a 1000 speed infinite stam 350-750 hp archer that cant go to dungeon with it If archery is even viablr MA if you make it literally same as archery will be OP thats such a no brainer LOL.
To fix it, just remove the ability to use abilities and nerf weakspot massively or even remove it, bows do damage now after the bugfix they do not need mauls damage that ruins pets and footies. MA was stronger than MM and MC before you gave it abilities its nuts that decision... So yeah mounted dmg needs to be weaker than on foot dmg, just like MM and MC is weaker than footie or magic damage, archery needs to be weaker too or either MA will always be OP or bows will always be shit on foot, very simple concept, imagine if you could ride around and just use shock on a Mount riding a Molva, or use breaking blows with a maul and feint with it on a Taur dog or something lmao, its even worse because MC needs to get close so even with that theres some outplay, with MA there is none.
So yrah MA just remove abilies and then nerf weakspot, MA is way way too good now.
