Proper Siege Mechanic

Philocypher

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Nov 26, 2023
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I'm sure we're all anxious about whatever convoluted and complex system that will be implemented to "fix" the jungle supply tower whack-a-mole game.

I'll keep my proposal simple and brief.

When you place a siege tent, it should drain defense bonus from all war-decced buildings in a radius.

Keep the supply tower game, whatever, just make it less relevant to sieges outside of keeps.

Place a siege tent and over a period of 4-10 hours, it should completely drain defense bonus for war dec targets and allow for a siege, regardless of supply towers or supply depot. Having supply towers and supply depot should give the added benefit of extra time but if you do not destroy the enemy's siege tent, the siege remains inevitable.

You should also be able to replace the siege tent within an hour and not lose too much progress.

This system borrows from Darkfall's siege stone mechanic. I think hiding your siege tent could lead to many interesting PvP engagements.
 

Philocypher

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Keep non-war targets the same, so you would have to play whack-a-mole with jungle supply towers to siege down blue guilds or non-enemies.

Both attackers and defenders should be able to see the defense bonus of each individual building (perhaps on the placard) and accurately determine how much time is left before siege engines must be constructed (or destroyed).

I really don't want them to implement something that makes the sieging even more cumbersome and complicated.

Darkfall used a similar sieging mechanic and it served us very well for a decade. It was fun and exciting for both attackers and defenders. You knew exactly what you had to do to siege and you knew exactly what you had to do to prevent a siege and both involved directly fighting your enemies.

Also, obviously, you'd have to make it so you can't drop a war dec while a siege tent is in play.
 
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Philocypher

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  • Supply Storehouses now only add defence to structures which are within 100m of them.
  • Removed the limit of only being able to build 1 Supply Storehouse
I don't think this was an appropriate solution to the problem.

It doesn't appear to be really well implemented. I think it would be better to revisit this topic.
 
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Tzone

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They need to lower the time it takes for you to loot a house. I know a entire guild of 30 that came from another game just quit over night because it was not worth it to seige.
 
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Philocypher

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Every Keepguild is unsiegeable as ong as their supply lines are up. So you either siege keep or siege nothing. GG. Have fun with the vision.
this system could work against keeps as well. I would think the radius of the siege tent should only affect the outer-wall of the keep and you would need to build another siege tent inside of the keep walls to continue the efforts inside.

Per a discussion on another thread, I believe there's a bit of value in certain "ninja sieging" aspects.

Defensive infrastructure should be our candidate for this type of gameplay.

How I believe this should work:

1. attacking team buys a deed for a battering ram or other sort of sapper device, perhaps 100g each
2. attacking team brings sapper device to enemy defensive structure (guard tower for example) and places it as a buildable. Its size and placement-criteria should be roughly equal to a portable crusher
3. attacking team stocks it with materials, perhaps 1 stack of wood, 1 stack of granum, 1000 metal, or thereabouts
4. attacking team then must operate the equipment for 5-10 minutes. This will break a guard tower to 80 or 90% health and despawn/disable its guards.

being able to temporarily disable player guards with a moderate investment of materials and time is essential to their balance.

Player guards that respawn after 5 minutes is just broken. We need a way to stamp them down and keep them down.

If all of the features that I've described in this thread come to fruition, MO2 will have the greatest sieging mechanics sandbox gaming has ever known.
 
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Philocypher

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I am once again asking Starvault to consider implementing a genuine siege system.

The siege tent idea can work for keeps. build one next to the walls and the radius still wouldn't stretch to the inner castle, so you'd have to siege down in stages but you could also make it so the supply lines must be taken down in order for the siege tent to drain all the way.

There's a lot of potential to make mo2 the best siege warfare game ever.

Tag a handful of buildings as "defensive structures" that can be broken fairly easily within an hour or so, so we have a constant battle to either keep our enemies' defensive infrastructure down or rebuild our own infrastructure.

Remove the elite guards from the NPC guard towers, make them regular guards or maybe even a bit tougher... But then allow the red players to disable those towers temporarily. If the player bandits take a tower down, it should automatically rebuild over the next few hours or players can unite and rebuild them faster. This creates a reason for reds to unite and an even bigger reason for blues to unite.

I think a lot of people like the guards but just about everyone thinks they're a bit too much. The wilderness guards should leave my risen pets alone, for sure, but also let there be a sort of counter against them.

Imagine how cool it would be to see a guard tower smoking in the distance...you know some ne'er-do-wells are on the prowl. Go back to town, rally the militia to go and bolster the defenses!

We're so close to having a constant tension that drives conflict and creates content. Just a bit more refinement and we've got ourselves a game.
 

Tzone

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People wanted sieging, we still dont have sieging. Just something that they call sieging when it really isnot sieging.

Henrik hates red players, he rather make the game worse for everyone on his private server then give a red any type of content.
 
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Emdash

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People wanted sieging, we still dont have sieging. Just something that they call sieging when it really isnot sieging.

Henrik hates red players, he rather make the game worse for everyone on his private server then give a red any type of content.

Henrik as at the point where he won't take the chance of losing any other players. He will lose players inactively, but he won't do something active to cause players to quit. He doesn't realize siege actually makes people more invested in the game haha.

smart-thinking.gif. It's toast. Maybe once everyone drops off after sub is implemented and he has nothing, he can start building for the future without worry.
 
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Philocypher

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Henrik as at the point where he won't take the chance of losing any other players. He will lose players inactively, but he won't do something active to cause players to quit. He doesn't realize siege actually makes people more invested in the game haha.

smart-thinking.gif. It's toast. Maybe once everyone drops off after sub is implemented and he has nothing, he can start building for the future without worry.

I think people will quit if their shit gets pushed in while they're offline. If they're given a chance to defend, they would obviously have at least a sense of control. If a siege system allows for the generation of a fun and compelling fight, sure some losers may quit, but a good war, win or lose, is the stuff that legends are made of. That's how you build a playerbase that's loyal to the end.
 
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Emdash

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I think people will quit if their shit gets pushed in while they're offline. If they're given a chance to defend, they would obviously have at least a sense of control. If a siege system allows for the generation of a fun and compelling fight, sure some losers may quit, but a good war, win or lose, is the stuff that legends are made of. That's how you build a playerbase that's loyal to the end.

they'll get over it. There are overwhelming odds. But yea nobody is getting their whole shit sieged (ideally? lol if shit is working right) ninja... but if people are just chipping at it, eh.
 

Tzone

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Henrik as at the point where he won't take the chance of losing any other players. He will lose players inactively, but he won't do something active to cause players to quit. He doesn't realize siege actually makes people more invested in the game haha.

smart-thinking.gif. It's toast. Maybe once everyone drops off after sub is implemented and he has nothing, he can start building for the future without worry.
dude already lost several guilds that just quit because sieging is not content and just garbage right now. Koto even taking a break because of sieging and GMs. They just wasted like 6 months on content that made people quit. When I came back to the game everyone was just complaining about TC and sieging.

Im in Karni, we fully expected for all of our stuff to be blown first day of sieging and then first day of when they "fixed" sieging.

Only thing people want is that they can be their for the fight when their stuff is being sieged.
 

ElPerro

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Just copy darkfall system ffs, the whole sandbox ninja sieges allowed only works on Rust because it wipes constantly. But Henrik prefers we have the illusion of sandbox while in reality he might as well not added anything.
 

Philocypher

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Just copy darkfall system ffs, the whole sandbox ninja sieges allowed only works on Rust because it wipes constantly. But Henrik prefers we have the illusion of sandbox while in reality he might as well not added anything.
The system that I've described in this thread is deeply inspired by darkfall's system but would also be totally unique to mortal online 2.

I think everyone is very frustrated with the state of TC. What I've theory crafted here would make what they've got work.

It's hard to understand why TC was implemented the way it was... I don't understand how they expected it to work. Maybe we're all just missing a key piece.

Fix TC:
1. Show us the defense bonus for each structure.
2. Give us clear and consistent ways to manipulate that defense bonus.

There you have it, we will have conflict during the defense bonus tug of war. Obviously, I favor the siege tent mechanics I've described in this thread, but any systems that fulfill those two goals would be sufficient.
 
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Emdash

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dude already lost several guilds that just quit because sieging is not content and just garbage right now. Koto even taking a break because of sieging and GMs. They just wasted like 6 months on content that made people quit. When I came back to the game everyone was just complaining about TC and sieging.

Im in Karni, we fully expected for all of our stuff to be blown first day of sieging and then first day of when they "fixed" sieging.

Only thing people want is that they can be their for the fight when their stuff is being sieged.

It's not gonna happen.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MortalOnline2/comments/18ibw16
"What you said about people continuing to play when they get wiped is just fucking nonsense and it has never happened that way in any survival game or mmo with sieging ever. It always causes massive churn on the games population, which is already very low."

"Its like youve never played a full loot game with base seiging before. Absofuckinlootly people who lose all their shit in a seige will quit the game instead of putting in months of work to build back up again. Especially if it happens while theyre offline."

gg.

Like I tried to tell people, dudes worry about building up again LATER, what they do is get absorbed into another guild and get revenge, then later on rebuild. It's like people don't wanna lose? But what's the point, then. That's the 'circle of life' in the game.
 
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Tzone

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People 100% will quit in the next week.
Getting sieged on Christmas is too much degeneracy to ask for.
Welp people just got sieged on christmas eve. IDK why henrik is such a loser that he makes other people have to log in on the holidays.