Operation: Save Humans (Buff them)

[Maxisan]

Every clade has a place in this game except for humans.

You want big peepee melee damage? go Thursar,

You wanna be a tanky chunky boy? or fattest big peepee magic damage? Go Oghmir

You wanna be speedy gonzales? Veela.

What are humans specialty? nothing. They are average at everything and good at nothing.

If humans are truly meant to be the "hybrid" clade, then humans need some buff that will truly outshine other clades when it comes to min/maxing hybrid builds.

Humans need:

100 additional primary points
20 additional attribute points
change 4kg armor mana clade to 8kg.
change Shamanistic clade to include passive MANA regen boost, not while actively resting.

I believe this will put humans on a great place when it comes to specialty of the clade.

 

[Emdash]

Every clade has a place in this game except for humans.

You want big peepee melee damage? go Thursar,

You wanna be a tanky chunky boy? or fattest big peepee magic damage? Go Oghmir

You wanna be speedy gonzales? Veela.

What are humans specialty? nothing. They are average at everything and good at nothing.

If humans are truly meant to be the "hybrid" clade, then humans need some buff that will truly outshine other clades when it comes to min/maxing hybrid builds.

Humans need:

100 additional primary points
20 additional attribute points
change 4kg armor mana clade to 8kg.
change Shamanistic clade to include passive MANA regen boost, not while actively resting.

I believe this will put humans on a great place when it comes to specialty of the clade.

I don't agree w/ all of your suggested changes. I would like human to be balanced, though. I do think this will be established by clade. The human lack of flavor is very apparent. HU favors mounted hybrid, I think.

The temp buff, placeholder, the thievery buff, not really any other sort of of buffs related to that.

I WOULD like to see humans get at least double the attributes from clades and double caps. I mean, that would be a good start.

Be funny to put Shaman in like resting pulse category except instead of stam it'd be while not moving mana.

 

[Hodo]

Humans on a case by case bases go from meh to downright bad.

Tindrim and Sarducaan are pretty meh.
Sidoian and Kallard are ok.. due to their strength and size but otherwise Oghmir and Thursars do both better.
And Khurite... well Khurite are just shyte. Not fast enough to matter, not strong enough to be good, not tough enough to survive, not enough attribute points to hybrid better than a Veela or Sheevra. Just bad.

 

[Emdash]

Humans on a case by case bases go from meh to downright bad.

Tindrim and Sarducaan are pretty meh.
Sidoian and Kallard are ok.. due to their strength and size but otherwise Oghmir and Thursars do both better.
And Khurite... well Khurite are just shyte. Not fast enough to matter, not strong enough to be good, not tough enough to survive, not enough attribute points to hybrid better than a Veela or Sheevra. Just bad.

gonna try lean khur once more. Keep your con and get 100 str hm.

 

[Jasa]

I think that giving 100 extra Primary or more attribute points baseline is a bit much, however we can get some of these points back by suggesting changes to the clades themselves.

Erudite back to +10 in all magic schools, Cleric giving +5 in Armor Training skills, Forceful giving +15? in some melee or possibly fists. While I drool of an 8kg tank mage with 100% mana regen I know it is too much of an ask and most non-human mages will have a valid concern of 15 armor with 80% mana regen.

Better yet, Humans do not really get any increases from 25 dex to 60 dex. Go ahead and check it out outside of the attribute + to skills if you have 59 dex you are the same speed as a 25 dex human. Why is it that a game that is centered on the Meta does not allow us to dump dex just a little? why is there so much dead space?

Also humans should have differed scaling for int, go ahead and check it 100 int does the same damage as 110 and going down to 90 only takes off 1-3 points of maximum damage. Why does 30 points of int do so little, when a foot fighter losing 30 points is like losing an arm and 15+ points of damage?

The game certainly needs some tweeks and humans need a ton of love, though lets not try to make them equal or greater to the other races since our whole thing is being better at doing more, not better at one thing.

 

[Hodo]

gonna try lean khur once more. Keep your con and get 100 str hm.

Why? You're still slower than a Veela, or even a Sheevra. You have less attribute points. And you cant draw the same bows. Oh and less stamina, stamina regen.

 

[Emdash]

Why? You're still slower than a Veela, or even a Sheevra. You have less attribute points. And you cant draw the same bows. Oh and less stamina, stamina regen.

Good con. You're p fast, good dex for mounted (no speed diff on mounted unless you v a lean alv,) smaller hitbox. Mainly tho, having 114 con instead of 101 I think is significant, for a FF. But it's my wep crafter, when they turn out reroll tokens, I will maybe try one, but I ain't touchin no bone tissue for awhile. Speccing 2h poles is awful.

PS: already have a veela!

 

[Jatix]

Good con. You're p fast, good dex for mounted (no speed diff on mounted unless you v a lean alv,) smaller hitbox. Mainly tho, having 114 con instead of 101 I think is significant, for a FF. But it's my wep crafter, when they turn out reroll tokens, I will maybe try one, but I ain't touchin no bone tissue for awhile. Speccing 2h poles is awful.

PS: already have a veela!

But you are lean which ruins your hp. A stout Veela has more health and is a lot faster than a lean khurite. Khurite is stout or nothing, otherwise its just a weaker sloweeer veela. But stout khurite isnt much faster than other builds and is still weaker than most builds so its still pretty bad. It was better in MO1 without clades. Now with clades the other races have op buffs and human doesnt so its even worse.

 

[Emdash]

But you are lean which ruins your hp. A stout Veela has more health and is a lot faster than a lean khurite. Khurite is stout or nothing, otherwise its just a weaker sloweeer veela. But stout khurite isnt much faster than other builds and is still weaker than most builds so its still pretty bad. It was better in MO1 without clades. Now with clades the other races have op buffs and human doesnt so its even worse.

It doesn't do as much when you have good con. You still have like 180 HP. You're still tankier than a veela, perhaps significantly if you properly gear yourself, but you know I'm not gonna do that. You miss psyche tho.

I think it's smarter than running a 20 hp more build that is basically the same speed as everyone including Dwarves. You don't wanna get stickied by a dwarf or a thur is one of my core philosophies, but I think I did get the D once for trying to pop a bandaid in beta haha. In general tho, I think the mobility is worth a shot. I think it's the only way to make a Khurite somewhat unique.

Also does not have much effect on dmg or your ability to pull a SB.

 

[Jatix]

It doesn't do as much when you have good con. You still have like 180 HP. You're still tankier than a veela, perhaps significantly if you properly gear yourself, but you know I'm not gonna do that. You miss psyche tho.

I think it's smarter than running a 20 hp more build that is basically the same speed as everyone including Dwarves. You don't wanna get stickied by a dwarf or a thur is one of my core philosophies, but I think I did get the D once for trying to pop a bandaid in beta haha. In general tho, I think the mobility is worth a shot. I think it's the only way to make a Khurite somewhat unique.

Also does not have much effect on dmg or your ability to pull a SB.

Lean max height khurite has 175 hp, 14 damage bonus, pre clades. Will be a bit higher with clades. Veela stout max height is 182 hp 12% damage bonus. And is 10 faster than the lean khurite. Which is as big as the speed bonus the lean khurite has over other builds. I'd say having more speed and stam regen and psy for magic resistance is much more survivable than the lean khurite that has the same hp and can wear the same armor. Especially if the Vela is paladin and can heal and purify itself, which the khurite also cant.

TLDR lean khurite is still bad. Yes stout khurite is barely faster and still weaker than other fighters. making it a bad fighter. The issue with lean khurite is its just a bad Veela. Its being weaker to be fast, while still being way slower than a Veela.

 

[Emdash]

Lean max height khurite has 175 hp, 14 damage bonus, pre clades. Will be a bit higher with clades. Veela stout max height is 182 hp 12% damage bonus. And is 10 faster than the lean khurite. Which is as big as the speed bonus the lean khurite has over other builds. I'd say having more speed and stam regen and psy for magic resistance is much more survivable than the lean khurite that has the same hp and can wear the same armor. Especially if the Vela is paladin and can heal and purify itself, which the khurite also cant.

TLDR lean khurite is still bad. Yes stout khurite is barely faster and still weaker than other fighters. making it a bad fighter. The issue with lean khurite is its just a bad Veela. Its being weaker to be fast, while still being way slower than a Veela.

I'm just saying imo khurite is a non dogshit choice. It is non dogshit as a fighter while stout, but you are heavily disadvantaged in some cases. The lean-ness actually does help, and once all the buffs go on, if you are max you get 20% dmg. I dunno HP because I made my char a bit shorter, might fill out. Def, as said, would love more atts, love more psyche (got psyche dumped cuz it's a crafter and you need something to fill out the other side of the +50 skill points to get skilled.) I could get better stats if I was min, but I only ran 1 min. Min khurite is nasty because it's tiny.

Like I said, veela... khur (or variant) are all I've played since I played the game. Khur plays a lot diff. I wouldn't say spec one, but like I said given I got weps on it, there's not really a viable reroll option. I could roll a sheev but I still don't think I'd be able to craft/extract. 100-114(5)-114 is not a bad spread. Ideally, I'd be min, too, but shrink food isn't there. I try to make the best w/ what I got cuz like I said, I can't unspec weps and wait to respec at this moment.

There is def a difference tho. CON makes a difference in dmg received. To me, it's significant, but maybe I'm buggin'. IF you say the diff between 101 con and 114 is nothing (and maybe you're right?) then I can understand your PoV, the rest I agree with, more or less. I think a veela would be best compared to a 166 khurite lean. As a kite class, not having wep jump (and I'm not a bunny hopper lol) is really inhibiting. I NEED a veela, sure. Bought a 2nd acct for one. Khur has it's place on the mt rushmore of humans tho atm. lol. A lil joke for ya.

But yea, getting lean is gonna take a long time, it seems. Seems like they nerfed losing weight.

Edit: I thought I could pull off 'MC' at 115. lol I can't hold shit. I am making Steel DKs for my thur bud and he's like... I can even hold this mounted. It's like WHAT? Fuck this game. Steel DK mounted? I had dreams of something like that, and again, in that case it would have been more interesting.

 

[Hodo]

Lean max height khurite has 175 hp, 14 damage bonus, pre clades. Will be a bit higher with clades. Veela stout max height is 182 hp 12% damage bonus. And is 10 faster than the lean khurite. Which is as big as the speed bonus the lean khurite has over other builds. I'd say having more speed and stam regen and psy for magic resistance is much more survivable than the lean khurite that has the same hp and can wear the same armor. Especially if the Vela is paladin and can heal and purify itself, which the khurite also cant.

TLDR lean khurite is still bad. Yes stout khurite is barely faster and still weaker than other fighters. making it a bad fighter. The issue with lean khurite is its just a bad Veela. Its being weaker to be fast, while still being way slower than a Veela.

It doesnt help that a khurite has 446 attribute points + 20 for clades and the Veela has 466 attribute points + 12 for clades. So a Khurite has 466 with all clades and a Veela has 478 with clades. LOL

 

[Emdash]

It doesnt help that a khurite has 446 attribute points + 20 for clades and the Veela has 466 attribute points + 12 for clades. So a Khurite has 466 with all clades and a Veela has 478 with clades. LOL

yea, they really should look into doubling that, as I said, for a start. Double all att clades and double the raw boosts, too. The dmg bonus is pretty nice performs well (lowering the differentiation between dmg bonus on diff builds.)

10 att difference between veela and khur seems insane! That's not much for x4. I thought it was a lot more. I guess the extra str, con makes a difference. It's cool to have a khur + get your primaries + height + leftover points, but yea need moar.

 

[Jatix]

There is def a difference tho. CON makes a difference in dmg received.

To my knowledge it doesnt. I feel like this was an old MO1 myth. Con is generally a pretty bad stat. It still gives hp and stam which matter, but nobody ever picks a build for more con. It just happens to be high on all good fighter builds.

 

[Emdash]

To my knowledge it doesnt. I feel like this was an old MO1 myth. Con is generally a pretty bad stat. It still gives hp and stam which matter, but nobody ever picks a build for more con. It just happens to be high on all good fighter builds.

Yeah, I dunno. It def helped you resist food poisoning lol. I only have anecdotal exp by running all the builds we're talking about, so depends on who you are. Like I ran side by side w/ a friend who was stout w/ a lean veela, and we were almost the exact same speed, but in practice, moving in battle etc, that shit is a lot different.

Khur is the only class that can approach that sort of thing, and they can actually do a lil dmg. But I don't disagree humans are trash. I do hard disagree about Con being a stat you don't want to build for. It's better for building min size. The whole character building thing is pretty complex. It only needs a few little pushes to flesh out more. I feel like Sard should be where khur is now with speed and Khur should be closer to the 250 you get lean as stout. They would be legit then FR FR, but they really flattened the curve. I mean, I rarely play chars w/ dmg bonuses and such so I really notice the dmg from like 23-24%.

 

[Xronim]

if dex didnt get curbstomped at 90 khurites would be better and have a niche, but theyre hardly faster than age 30 oghmirs at the same weight class lmao, ive tested it with a friend who rolled full khur in beta, i was still able to hit him way more times than a old af sheevra with like 109 dex

 

[Hodo]

No matter how high the dex of a human can go they will never catch an alvarin. This is thanks to that 1.25% speed bonus not once but TWICE for a total of 2.5% bonus in speed.

So a human with 110 dex max can only go 429.

While an alvarin with the same 110 dex can go 440.