Make a new mining system, reformulate everything

[Dulpus]

My suggestion would be:
Make every refining instant
Make the stones give less materials
Make the player spend the same amount of time that he would in the current mechanic but instead walking around and mining different stones
The danger would be clearly while he's mining or coming back from a mining trip, if you catch the mats before refining it would be instant so your win would be the same and you'll need to watch out for people around trying to kill you
This way the player is actively playing the game and not just waiting for "the game to do it's things", making mining not only something you need to pay attention but also something that isn't boring as hell
The current mechanic not only make it tedious but transforms the mining and refining system in an idle game, other suggestions could be minigames at mining, crushers or other things, like hit on the right time or place in order for it to work, just to make players actively do something and not only wait

I'm open to discussions about this suggestion

 

[Xunila]

Yes, I like the current mining system, but the timer should be decreased. Makes no sense to wait five minutes in front of machine, go down to five seconds as for skinning. Or what do you think how much time the skinning 100 kg of carcass would take? One hour? Even more? It's definitely not instant in real world, so why should a crusher or grinder need five minutes?

 

[Amadman]

There have been many long discussions on this topic in the other game.

Here are a few things to note.

Mining and extracting should not be considered the same thing. Almost everyone can mine and extracting is its own profession. Some extractors will mine for sure, but there will also be some that just purchase ore to process.

The processes of extracting logically will take time. These are machines that are actively processing the ore.

They did speed up the butcher skill which requires a player to stand at the table. Which was good.

These extraction machines do not require you to stand there and wait. Players can feed them and go do something else for a bit if they choose.

They did eventually get a que in the first game. And even had it here for a little while. But there may have been issues since it is currently not in.

It also used to be possible to use multiple machines at one time. I have read that is not possible currently. But have not confirmed that myself.

Horse bags will lead to players being able to put more in at once quicker. This could increase the amount of time you have before needing to return.

Though some will still choose to load up their horse and wait there even longer.

 

[Kelzyr]

I definitely think the way you mine and process should be tweaked.

At the very least they should remove the time when doing the first extraction step with the raw ore because butchering does not have a timer so why should this?

If the plan is to add time to butchering and the raw ore processing is supposed to have a timer then I suggest they add a small 'skill check' mini game for all the processes.

I would argue you could yoink Dead by Daylight's skill check when mining: good skill check 1.5x the yield, great skill check 2x, bad skill check .5x, or ignore the check and go 1x and be able to still afk (I like being able to afk mining/woodcutting when I have to walk away for a minute)

After this step you could do similar simple skill check mini games that decrease the time it takes to process the materials, maybe a rhythm type game for the raw ore extraction, and then a balance mini game for the furnace (like keeping a bar in the center by using space bar).

I think these mini game/skill checks should be optional so people can go afk if they want, but if you actively engage you should see significant time savings.

The current durations for refining are pretty insane, so if it's too much effort to get something like this in, I'd be happy with the removal of time while crushing (because butchery doesn't have time other than holding down the button) or just drastic duration lowering, 5mins for a stack is pretty ridiculous IMO.

 

[Amadman]

As I mentioned above, butchering requires you to actively be at the table butchering.

The extraction machines do the actual work themselves so the players can leave them while the machines do their thing.

 

[SoftHater]

I generally dislike all automatism and idling operations in a videogame,
I would prefer some kind of player active participation in these processes.
But honestly I'm not expect it to happen, at least in the short run,
there are stilll many features to fix, tweak or balance and much more missing to design, implement and test.

I like the the avoid "let the game to do it's things" approach you adopted, but disliked the operation collapse you proposed.
Like @Amadman said

Mining and extracting should not be considered the same thing. Almost everyone can mine and extracting is its own profession. Some extractors will mine for sure, but there will also be some that just purchase ore to process.

 

[Amadman]

The beauty of the extended time is that it gives options to be used in different ways.

Shorting the timer or forcing mini game actions will actually lead to less options for the players.

If there is no time to do anything else then everyone will be waiting at the machines. Leading to exactly what people are trying to avoid.

 

[Kelzyr]

The beauty of the extended time is that it gives options to be used in different ways.

Shorting the timer or forcing mini game actions will actually lead to less options for the players.

If there is no time to do anything else then everyone will be waiting at the machines. Leading to exactly what people are trying to avoid.

You're continuing to go on about how wonderful it is to be able to walk away to do something else yet 5 minutes is not enough time to do much.

Also I'm not sure if you read my post, but I think giving an OPTIONAL mini game to decrease the time would be a good thing. This means you can have your 5 minutes to walk to the bank and back, and I can be done crushing in 2.5 mins because I decided to actively engage with the process.

 

[Kelzyr]

As I mentioned above, butchering requires you to actively be at the table butchering.

The extraction machines do the actual work themselves so the players can leave them while the machines do their thing.

The fact that you think sitting there for 30 seconds to butcher 100k carcass is worse than the timers because you have to sit in front of the bench is silly.

 

[Ask]

I think due to the vastly increased amount of nodes that gathering the ore should be a lot faster, especially considering the wait time on the machines. Yes it is considered a different profession however most of the extractors in MO1 were miners, their were very few people who only mined and sold. Those who had characters that just did the mining most likely had an extractor on a different character on the same/second account.

From personal experience when I mined in MO1 I did it on 4 characters at the same time. Doing it on just the 1 was painfully slow and painfully boring, I get that some people enjoy it but they are in a large minority when considering everyone else who plays. Butchery, being a lot faster and a lot more engaging was much more popular in the original mortal. People would rather farm the gold and buy the metals due to it being faster to get the value in gold than the actual metal you would want to buy (if you knew what you were doing).

The mining system is very outdated and really does need an overhaul. I would even be happy if the extraction time is increased but the actual time it takes to mine(the boring/risky part) is reduced. The thing is with extracting, you can do other things at the same time, such as watch TV on another monitor, you can't really do that when mining because you need to be on the lookout for threats and keep an eye on node yields.

The reason I suggest an increased extraction time with faster gathering is to keep it so metals are not flooding the market very early on and still take time to acquire. Especially now that its more difficult to multi-box mine. It's just far too slow and far too boring to be and engaging playstyle for many many people.

 

[Turbizzler]

The problems are basic ores take way too long to process, and then the material you get from extraction of these ores are additional timers to process. This coupled with travel times and actual resource gathering time makes it one long period of essentially afk gameplay. It's unneeded tedium.

Extraction times should vary based on tier of ore/material. Basic ores and materials should be minimal extraction times, while mid tier are 25% longer and high tier are 50% longer.

Current times for example, such as 500 second grinder time, and 300 second crusher time should be reduce by around 60%, then scale timers based on tier of mats.

I also noticed that with max mining skill and lores, you get much more ore per tick with Tephra, than you do other ores....that seems backwards. You should be getting more per tick with basic ores, than high tier ores.

 

[Amadman]

The fact that you think sitting there for 30 seconds to butcher 100k carcass is worse than the timers because you have to sit in front of the bench is silly.

That is not the point at all.

Butchery used to make you wait on the long timers as well. Now they do not.

But comparing the two is like compairing apples and oranges.

It is more like making a peanut butter sandwich and doing laundry.

You have to actively make the sandwich. But you can walk away from the washing machine and come back to it when it is done. Maybe even take some clothing out of the dryer , fold them and put them away while you wait.

You could possibly even choose to make a PB&J while you wait

 

[Kelzyr]

That is not the point at all.

Butchery used to make you wait on the long timers as well. Now they do not.

But comparing the two is like compairing apples and oranges.

It is more like making a peanut butter sandwich and doing laundry.

You have to actively make the sandwich. But you can walk away from the washing machine and come back to it when it is done. Maybe even take some clothing out of the dryer , fold them and put them away while you wait.

I'd agree if the butchery tables are INTENDED to have a timer associated with them, but if they are not going to have a timer your point is silly.

If they do have a timer it needs to be lower than the ore processing if you can't walk away, but then I'd argue for the mini game system so you can at least be engaging with the game while processing.

I still stand by 5 minutes not being enough time to do anything substantial until you have to be back at the machine.

The only way I can get behind a long timer is if you can shove 10 stacks of granum into the crusher, have the timer stack, come back in 50 minutes and your whole load is done at once. Not put a stack in, 5 mins later have to go back to the machine so your materials don't fall on the floor for any rat to snatch.

 

[Dakgorim]

I guess they added this for the danger of getting ganked and losing stuff. I think 60 seconds would be enough for a stack of material tho. Dunno if they added a timer to the butchery bench yet, if they haven't; they need to come up with a number for that as well if they are going to do it for ore processing. If someone's got a few stacks of spider queen or clothos on them its almost as valuable as someone having a few stacks of calx. Hopefully they add a queuing system like the first game had. Having to babysit my character at a crusher doing 1 stack of granum at a time isn't the most exciting thing to do.

 

[Rorry]

If they put in a que system for extraction machines the system will be ok, shortening the timer a little would be fine, too. I don't want the effects of making the process too quick and easy in the game world. We experienced that in MO1 and it was negative to the economy and to pvp.

 

[Amadman]

Here are some different ways players can currently choose to extract off the top of my head. All I have used in this game or the first.

A.

buy or mine ore and stockpile it in you bank.

Split stacks to specific size to allow for a decent movement speed. Possibly even an amount that just allows enough time to get back and forth from the machine. Or maybe fill extra time with more mining.

Then gather extracted mats, deposit new ore and repeat.


B.

Mine a good amount of ore near extraction equipment and place it in the machine.

Go mine some more until machine is near done.

When done remove mats extracted, add the new ore and head to bank to drop of mats.

Return to extractor to get new mats and return to mining.


C.

Mine some ore or bring from bank.

Put in extractor and wait. Maybe read forums, watch youtube or what ever.


d.

Get a group organized and give them different jobs to perform.

For example, Miners, haulers, extractors.

This type of thing would be the most productive since mining and extracting are both constant.

The fewer people you need to successfully be able to pull this off the better.

So if an extractor has time to occasionally make a run to the bank and dump off mats then that could eliminate the need for another person to do it.


E.

While this may not be possible currently. One could also run different machines at the same time in the previous game. This could be done both solo in a timed way or in an organized group.



While C. may be a popular choice, it is still just one choice of many currently.

 

[Kelzyr]

Yup there are a bunch of different ways you can interact with the current system, doesn't mean it's an interesting or interactive system.

Mining you literally watch your character perform the action (if you don't look to your second monitor). Yeah you should be vigilant of people killing you, so make sure you have a second monitor.

Yes you can walk back and forth from machine to bank like a villager in AoE going between mine and town center.

And sure you can organize a group of people to make this process quicker. Still doesn't make it good.

At least with the skill OPTIONAL skill check system you could decrease the time while still interacting with the game....sure the mini games will eventually become tedious too, but it's a whole lot better (IMO) than becoming no better than an AoE villager.

I can settle with a queue system that increases the time as you shove more mats in so you can increase the timer to a point where you can do a substantial amount of other things in the game before having to return.

 

[Amadman]

I'd agree if the butchery tables are INTENDED to have a timer associated with them, but if they are not going to have a timer your point is silly.

If they do have a timer it needs to be lower than the ore processing if you can't walk away, but then I'd argue for the mini game system so you can at least be engaging with the game while processing.

I still stand by 5 minutes not being enough time to do anything substantial until you have to be back at the machine.

The only way I can get behind a long timer is if you can shove 10 stacks of granum into the crusher, have the timer stack, come back in 50 minutes and your whole load is done at once. Not put a stack in, 5 mins later have to go back to the machine so your materials don't fall on the floor for any rat to snatch.

Yeah, this idea with being able to adjust your time with the amount you put in the que is what I always pushed for.

And I honestly am not against having mini games as an option for players to actively speed up the process. I am all for it if SV can do it.

I just don't want to see the timers lowered to a point where you have no choice but to stay at the machine. Or activities that force the same.

Because I do use that time to keep from standing at the equipment, even though it is already pretty tight.

 

[Dulpus]

I definitely think the way you mine and process should be tweaked.

At the very least they should remove the time when doing the first extraction step with the raw ore because butchering does not have a timer so why should this?

If the plan is to add time to butchering and the raw ore processing is supposed to have a timer then I suggest they add a small 'skill check' mini game for all the processes.

I would argue you could yoink Dead by Daylight's skill check when mining: good skill check 1.5x the yield, great skill check 2x, bad skill check .5x, or ignore the check and go 1x and be able to still afk (I like being able to afk mining/woodcutting when I have to walk away for a minute)

After this step you could do similar simple skill check mini games that decrease the time it takes to process the materials, maybe a rhythm type game for the raw ore extraction, and then a balance mini game for the furnace (like keeping a bar in the center by using space bar).

I think these mini game/skill checks should be optional so people can go afk if they want, but if you actively engage you should see significant time savings.

The current durations for refining are pretty insane, so if it's too much effort to get something like this in, I'd be happy with the removal of time while crushing (because butchery doesn't have time other than holding down the button) or just drastic duration lowering, 5mins for a stack is pretty ridiculous IMO.

I agree with you, skillchecks would be good and make the player active during the time, transforming the mining system in something else besides
-Click
-Wait
-Move
-Click

That's boring and even if some players like the afk part of that, they're not actually playing the game, but rather waiting for a process to end

 

[StreamerLord]

This system was was created for M01 in 2009 and is not up to modern standards. You cant even chop a tree down in 2021 MO2.