Lighter 2H sword attacks don't match the animation

LordMega

Active member
Dec 2, 2020
176
202
43
Just as the title says, since that really dumb change to light weapon speed a couple patches ago that was never fully fixed.
Not sure what I'm talking about? Well if you are an NA player, or someone who regularly has ~130 ping or more, fight a skilled EU player who is wielding a flakestone 2h sword. You will take small amounts of damage until you die. Why? Because the attack hits much faster than the animation shows.

If you have say 115 ping and 130 FPS, you should be able to parry any attack in this game in theory, right? As long as you can see the animation, it shouldn't be an issue. However, that is not the case. I will have my parry up in plenty of time on my screen and eat the damage. Someone screwed up with the changes, the animation is slower than the actual attack. This isn't "my" experience, this is an issue that players everywhere are seeing. Even EU players are complaining about it.

This balance change was never needed in the first place. One more irritating mistake. Fix it, StarVault. Make it right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Grudge Bringer

bbihah

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2020
1,115
952
113
If you have 115 ping, you have 15 ms higher ping than any player with less than 100 ping.

Because ping nomalisation is a thing.
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: CrgHck and ElPerro

LordMega

Active member
Dec 2, 2020
176
202
43
If you have 115 ping, you have 15 ms higher ping than any player with less than 100 ping.

Because ping nomalisation is a thing.

Yeah I am aware of how math works. Even playing with 140-150 ping I can almost always parry an attack; with 115 I have never had an issue when focusing on parrying, unless the opponent is particularly good at animation jank/feints/etc. Now, the timing of the animation simply does not match the attack swing.
 

Emdash

Well-known member
Sep 22, 2021
2,876
930
113
Just as the title says, since that really dumb change to light weapon speed a couple patches ago that was never fully fixed.
Not sure what I'm talking about? Well if you are an NA player, or someone who regularly has ~130 ping or more, fight a skilled EU player who is wielding a flakestone 2h sword. You will take small amounts of damage until you die. Why? Because the attack hits much faster than the animation shows.

If you have say 115 ping and 130 FPS, you should be able to parry any attack in this game in theory, right? As long as you can see the animation, it shouldn't be an issue. However, that is not the case. I will have my parry up in plenty of time on my screen and eat the damage. Someone screwed up with the changes, the animation is slower than the actual attack. This isn't "my" experience, this is an issue that players everywhere are seeing. Even EU players are complaining about it.

This balance change was never needed in the first place. One more irritating mistake. Fix it, StarVault. Make it right.

The game is weird in general. In my vid where I was speccing pole swords and some dude in steel came out on me, I hit him at the end and it even made a 'got hit' noise, but then it registered a ting noise and gave him the parry. I don't understand what the 'ultimate governor' of what happens is, if it's really not what happens on either of our screens but just something that gets run thru and normalized then the result occurs.

Faster combat seems to highlight a lot of the problems, but I feel like it makes more sense to, if the combat is slowed, to change it a bit mechanically. AGAIN: 0 damage parry in slow combat is crazy! I know people, and I am sure there are plenty more, who quit the game just on that. There are no windows or openings, either that proceed an action. The combat just got raw slowed and parry window got increased + 'normalization,' which doesn't seem as wonky when the combat is slower. Kind of shows that IT AIN'T DOING ITS JOB. It's probably not doing its job at a slower speed, either, but since it's slower, it doesn't matter as much (theory.)

Like I said they can make an actiony, slower combat that plays realistically and does not favor any ping, has counter play with parry as well as dodges (and windows for getting a return hit after someone misses you, cuz imo, dodge should be rewarded just as much as a parry,) but they'd really have to look inward and fix a lot of things. People aren't gonna 'get worse,' but there has to be a way to make it so you don't have the majority of the fight spent parrying for 0 dmg. Cuz you guys can call me a shit tier all you want, but I don't think very many people find that engaging or exciting. The only time it's really cool is when you have one person fighting a whole bunch of bad players, and that's a cool situation to watch, but people always talk about 'what you shouldn't balance a game off off' and IMO that's one of them. Let the good player separate them a little or something, there has to be another way, that doesn't make the other areas of combat (duel, finishing people off in a team fight as a single, etc) so trash.

Kills should be happening faster. I don't mind the swing speed increase even tho it's probably harming me a lot more because at least when I see people fighting, they are parrying less. TO ME it would be better to see a balanced parry and let people parry to their heart's content. Just make it not the end-all. I said I wasn't up all night thinking about my in game beefs, but I AM up at night thinking about how to make MO combat better because... even tho some people have mastered it and want to believe other people only complain because they haven't, it's really imbalanced and, beyond that, not even exciting w/ normal swing speed (swing buff makes it more exciting, but yea it does wonk out the gam.)

Edit: I mean, consider mob attacks to understand the baseline 'lag' of MO.

Also consider this counterintuitive take: the game could be made SLOWER while being made more precise: individual actions could have more effect while more closely resembling what was being seen on the screen, AND tuned to the point where a good player could kill a bad player FASTER. - shrug - I feel there is, naturally, a big fear of overhaul given previous balance changes, but being stuck in this wishy-washy state of rubber banding changes is worse IMO. Game ain't goin nowhere (prol stable pop of about 1000-1500 no matter what.) Might as well accept it's gonna be pretty laggy, too. Best to plan for the long term and hope to make the game GOOD and bring in new players.
 
Last edited:

Grudge Bringer

Active member
May 28, 2020
205
135
43
Speed swing patch totally destroyed parrying. I agree with OP, 2 hand animation for swords is broken. Duels in general suck now. It's spam, spam, spam.
 

LordMega

Active member
Dec 2, 2020
176
202
43
ROFL

Thats not how ping normalization works, try again

The way it works is that people with lower ping still see animations more easily- about twice as many frames, giving them much more time to react to the attack accurately.

Ping normalization mechanic is only in for the attacks, there is not a 100 ms delay for parry. So that means that people sitting at 30 ping have a significant advantage, as they both have more time to parry and see the animation.

Speed swing patch totally destroyed parrying. I agree with OP, 2 hand animation for swords is broken. Duels in general suck now. It's spam, spam, spam.

I wonder how long it will take for SV to fix this.. until the new meta is everyone wielding flake swords? I'm literally seeing people in full steel armor running around with a flakestone sword. It's ridiculous.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ElPerro

ThaBadMan

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
1,159
915
113
33
Norway
They cant fix low ping issues, such issues been plagueing the game since the very start of MO2.
Meaning low pingers can parry all day and hit in between without anyone able to do anything about it.

Ping normalization worked for medium and high ping players but anyone below 20-30 ping or so is unaffected by the ping normalization.
 

LordMega

Active member
Dec 2, 2020
176
202
43
They cant fix low ping issues, such issues been plagueing the game since the very start of MO2.
Meaning low pingers can parry all day and hit in between without anyone able to do anything about it.

Ping normalization worked for medium and high ping players but anyone below 20-30 ping or so is unaffected by the ping normalization.

But what we're discussing here is the fact that since the recent change, a light 2h sword animation doesn't match the actual attack. The actual attack lands sometime early during the swing animation. We all know that the best EU player is going to forever best the top NA player. That hasn't changed. However, the balance was good enough that high skill NA players can beat high skill EU players. Changes to swing speed will tilt the balance back to EU significantly, though. It's been an issue that has been complained about, tested back and forth and changed many times over the past 2 years.

Which is why it was a dumb decision to speed it back up after release. Why, when it was somewhat balanced? I mean, granted, it won't be balanced, which goes back to the whole regional server debate, the ping normalization debate, the swing speed debate etc etc.

But right now I'm seeing people who have full steel plate armor carrying flake swords as their main weapon. That can't be intended design.
 

ThaBadMan

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
1,159
915
113
33
Norway
But what we're discussing here is the fact that since the recent change, a light 2h sword animation doesn't match the actual attack. The actual attack lands sometime early during the swing animation. We all know that the best EU player is going to forever best the top NA player. That hasn't changed. However, the balance was good enough that high skill NA players can beat high skill EU players. Changes to swing speed will tilt the balance back to EU significantly, though. It's been an issue that has been complained about, tested back and forth and changed many times over the past 2 years.

Which is why it was a dumb decision to speed it back up after release. Why, when it was somewhat balanced? I mean, granted, it won't be balanced, which goes back to the whole regional server debate, the ping normalization debate, the swing speed debate etc etc.

But right now I'm seeing people who have full steel plate armor carrying flake swords as their main weapon. That can't be intended design.
And thats new ?
Animation cuts have been here since day 1 of Combat Alpha, its here to stay since SV cant develop a game.

Top NAs can beat top EUs, more so with higher speeds then lower. EU low pingers will ALWAYS animation cut due to the low ping. Its just more noticeable with higher speeds because well obviously because its waaaay easier to parry slow speed swings vs fast speed swings.

US based players was way more dangerous during high speed gameplay over slower speeds.

Well that is what SV does, make the game more unbalanced with every change they do. More bugs, more errors, more faults, its their bread and butter and what they are known for.
 

Grudge Bringer

Active member
May 28, 2020
205
135
43
And thats new ?
Animation cuts have been here since day 1 of Combat Alpha, its here to stay since SV cant develop a game.

Top NAs can beat top EUs, more so with higher speeds then lower. EU low pingers will ALWAYS animation cut due to the low ping. Its just more noticeable with higher speeds because well obviously because its waaaay easier to parry slow speed swings vs fast speed swings.

US based players was way more dangerous during high speed gameplay over slower speeds.

Well that is what SV does, make the game more unbalanced with every change they do. More bugs, more errors, more faults, its their bread and butter and what they are known for.

What everyone's saying is animation cuts got worse after last patch. I don't know why that is so hard for you to comprehend.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: ThaBadMan

ThaBadMan

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
1,159
915
113
33
Norway
What everyone's saying is animation cuts got worse after last patch. I don't know why that is so hard for you to comprehend.
Worse or better, does it matter so long its there ? Parry early enough and it dont matter any way...

I think more long term then the peasantry and we wont see it go so last patch dont really matter, they changed some numbers and it got worse. Still dont fix the issue thats been here since day 1.
 

serge

Member
Dec 22, 2021
31
29
18
Feel like they didn't really take account the "ping normalization" with accelerated swings from skilled players. I play with 150 ping and this game is very easy to block 99% of the swings but if you are fighting players who know how to accelerate really well it gets tough and this speed patch made it much worse with lighter weapons but they did say it will be reverted so hopefully next patch things are better.
 

bbihah

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2020
1,115
952
113
The current state of stressed nodes is definitely not helping.

Keep playing and keep giving feedback, this thread is good.
 

LordMega

Active member
Dec 2, 2020
176
202
43
Word from Henrik is that the fix is going to be in Tuesday's patch for this issue. I'll wait and see, hopefully it has been addressed. If not, we'll have to break out the pitchforks again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cerqo