You realize you can already 1 shot low health builds with a headshot from a cuprum maul right? On foot.
Improve Damage for Mounted Charge attack parries
- Thread starter Evelyn
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You realize you can already 1 shot low health builds with a headshot from a cuprum maul right? On foot.
Uhhh...I regret to inform you guys that 80 on an armored target is already doable with mounted charge if they don't see it coming. The limiting factor is mount stamina. Which I sincerely hope they don't change that your mount is more or less stammed out after one or two all-out charges.
Maybe this is just a spear thing, for all I know axes and hammers do hit for like 30 bleedthrough on a parry. Anybody want to test?
Maybe this is just a spear thing, for all I know axes and hammers do hit for like 30 bleedthrough on a parry. Anybody want to test?
Yeah, I'm going to do some graphs just been dragging my feet on it since mounted combat of all forms is a joke until horse armor makes it in. I mean MAs are annoying unless you also have a bow and kill their mount in 2-3 shots that even I don't have trouble making. Which if you don't have a bow, and aren't a mage... what the hell? It's 100 primary points and you already have the strength if you can do melee.
I mean if nothing else I hope this thread encourages people to spend a day riding around trying to mow people down with mounted combat to get a feel for what is good about it right now and what is really stinky about it right now. Hitting a rock or a small twig while your mount is running at that 1000+ movespeed and suddenly veering off in a different direction while you're lining up an attack is hilarious and sad at the same time.
i cant agree with any mounted combat system in MO. in my world a horse would be a transport without the ability to attack foot fighters, just an attack vs other mounteds.
I would immediately uninstall. The greatest selling point of this game is that it's incredibly immersive for an MMO. If I wanted immersion to be entirely scrapped for the sake of combat balancing, I'd go play damn near any other game in existence. There are SO many other titles with combat better than MO2.
0 dmg against footies is exagerated, my point is to nerf them so hard that people go out with a simple bow or spells and are safe aginst single horses.
So... you mean like making the turning and momentum physics realistic so that a horse can't charge down a target that is aware of them and dodging them?
(I realize that's not what you mean but realistic turn physics as I suggested earlier makes mounted charge builds horrible at 1v1s)
(I realize that's not what you mean but realistic turn physics as I suggested earlier makes mounted charge builds horrible at 1v1s)
There's a reason MO vets are so hesitant about mounted, because it spent most of it's lifetime in MO1, broken & OP. It was somewhat balance in the early days, but as the game expanded, issues were popping up left and right and persisted for years and years.
- Breeding(Perfect stat super horses) High HP, super fast, infinite stam, spider horses.
- Flavor of the month OP weapons; Mauls, Double Khal, spear lances, Sledge hammers etc to name a few. Which in most situations would 1 - 3 shots anyone.
- Being able to ride around with 2H giant weapons, with little draw back.
- Horses being able to accelerate to max speed instantly while also being able to stop and turn on a dime.
- Limited counters; Spear stance for example was always broken. Dismount rng. Earthquake only real viable option, but if mage got 1 shot...then rip. Bows were only good if multiple people had them, but you traded damage output with vulnerability.
- Didn't matter the terrain, in most situations, spider horses.
- Max speed heavy armored MC speeding at you hits for 90 - 170+ damage, yet hitting super speed heavy mounted was rng for dismount and damage didn't account for speed/momentum of horse coming at you, so you'd hit 20s - 40s on player/horse.
- OP combos, like Fat mages that utilized instagib weapons, like spear lances.
- Mount healing too ez. Horse pots too easy to make, super cheap and horses could just guzzle them. Fat wizard man forever healing. If these two options were no longer an option, they could ride away, bandage, then return.
This isn't even scratching the surface, there's far more to list. So sorry if vets are pissy with mounted, there's a reason. INB4 bias MO1 mounted vets "MoUnTeD WaS bAlAnCEd"
SV better think really hard about balance in MO2. It's good hear they're tying char weight etc to mount effectiveness. And mount stat balance is going to vary significantly. But saying one thing, is a lot different to actually executing what is being said. Just will have to wait and see.
- Breeding(Perfect stat super horses) High HP, super fast, infinite stam, spider horses.
- Flavor of the month OP weapons; Mauls, Double Khal, spear lances, Sledge hammers etc to name a few. Which in most situations would 1 - 3 shots anyone.
- Being able to ride around with 2H giant weapons, with little draw back.
- Horses being able to accelerate to max speed instantly while also being able to stop and turn on a dime.
- Limited counters; Spear stance for example was always broken. Dismount rng. Earthquake only real viable option, but if mage got 1 shot...then rip. Bows were only good if multiple people had them, but you traded damage output with vulnerability.
- Didn't matter the terrain, in most situations, spider horses.
- Max speed heavy armored MC speeding at you hits for 90 - 170+ damage, yet hitting super speed heavy mounted was rng for dismount and damage didn't account for speed/momentum of horse coming at you, so you'd hit 20s - 40s on player/horse.
- OP combos, like Fat mages that utilized instagib weapons, like spear lances.
- Mount healing too ez. Horse pots too easy to make, super cheap and horses could just guzzle them. Fat wizard man forever healing. If these two options were no longer an option, they could ride away, bandage, then return.
This isn't even scratching the surface, there's far more to list. So sorry if vets are pissy with mounted, there's a reason. INB4 bias MO1 mounted vets "MoUnTeD WaS bAlAnCEd"
SV better think really hard about balance in MO2. It's good hear they're tying char weight etc to mount effectiveness. And mount stat balance is going to vary significantly. But saying one thing, is a lot different to actually executing what is being said. Just will have to wait and see.
The issue is mount physics don't work as your suggesting they should. So until they do, I can't agree with you.
1. You can 1 shot someone on foot if you hit them in the head with a cuprum or better maul. Yes it does have to be a lightly armored / low health build. But this is precisely why I say occasionally 1 shotting someone with a mounted charge is ENTIRELY balanced if they get the physics right. You come plowing into a 170 health light armor hybrid from behind and head shot him with your lance then run him over with your horse? Dead is appropiate.
2. Try swinging a maul or double axe from the back of a mount. Go ahead. See what happens.
3. Try riding over those little rocks on the steppe and tell me we have spider horses.
Many of your concerns have already been addressed. Some others are valid. I'm in favor of addressing turn speed/acceleration. I'm in favor of more/better counters.
What I'm not in favor of is the idea that if I hit you dead on going full speed from a mount that your day is entirely ruined is in any way OP. It's how mounted melee needs to function to be worth having. You lose maneuverability in exchange for getting off huge hits. Why else would you have it? If 2-3 shotting someone on average isn't how it functions why would you even play it?
Then fix it. It's not like any mounted build is in danger of being OP if their enemy has a bow and less then half a bottle of vodka in their system. The system is horrible and unusable as things are so lets talk about what would make it good rather than killing another non foot-melee build before it even has a chance to be useful.
Even fat mages are kind of a joke. Yeah you can keep a mount alive. And it's like 75% of what you'll be doing if you take one into a fight. You're hardly OP the other 25% of the time you casting spells at half speed.
2. Try swinging a maul or double axe from the back of a mount. Go ahead. See what happens.
3. Try riding over those little rocks on the steppe and tell me we have spider horses.
Many of your concerns have already been addressed. Some others are valid. I'm in favor of addressing turn speed/acceleration. I'm in favor of more/better counters.
What I'm not in favor of is the idea that if I hit you dead on going full speed from a mount that your day is entirely ruined is in any way OP. It's how mounted melee needs to function to be worth having. You lose maneuverability in exchange for getting off huge hits. Why else would you have it? If 2-3 shotting someone on average isn't how it functions why would you even play it?
Then fix it. It's not like any mounted build is in danger of being OP if their enemy has a bow and less then half a bottle of vodka in their system. The system is horrible and unusable as things are so lets talk about what would make it good rather than killing another non foot-melee build before it even has a chance to be useful.
Even fat mages are kind of a joke. Yeah you can keep a mount alive. And it's like 75% of what you'll be doing if you take one into a fight. You're hardly OP the other 25% of the time you casting spells at half speed.
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Id rather wait for them to do more with mounts then try to "fix it". Youre basing this off the very basic test mount that we have in the game. Unless they've added more that I don't know about?
I'm sure there is much more to be done with mounted combat. Let's just see what they do. As much as I hated mounted in MO1, I'm not anti-mounts. I want them to be viable and fun just like I want foot archers, hybrids, and mages to be. But you have to understand why this is such a touchy subject. Mounted melee also was very effective in earlier MO1 days, and that's when we even had dice rolls and people used 2h swords lol.
Also I've said this a lot, but I'm never going to agree with such high damage numbers in a full loot pvp MMO. I think there are many other ways to "balance" something than buffing their numbers to basically crit every hit. If I wanna be one shot in a full loot game I'll stick to Tarkov.
But yeah, sorry @Evelyn for going way off topic.
I'm sure there is much more to be done with mounted combat. Let's just see what they do. As much as I hated mounted in MO1, I'm not anti-mounts. I want them to be viable and fun just like I want foot archers, hybrids, and mages to be. But you have to understand why this is such a touchy subject. Mounted melee also was very effective in earlier MO1 days, and that's when we even had dice rolls and people used 2h swords lol.
Also I've said this a lot, but I'm never going to agree with such high damage numbers in a full loot pvp MMO. I think there are many other ways to "balance" something than buffing their numbers to basically crit every hit. If I wanna be one shot in a full loot game I'll stick to Tarkov.
But yeah, sorry @Evelyn for going way off topic.
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Right but like. If I can't 2-3 shot people on average if I line up good hits, why would I choose to use a style of combat that dramatically lowers my maneuverability? Even the way things work now for instance, you can't fight effectively in either GK or Fab on horseback because people keep hopping or obstacles you can't follow them over with a mount.
Why would I play a build that limits my ability to fight in some of the most popular fighting locations in the game if it's not really damn good in the open field?
If 2-3 shotting people is OP, then the factors making it so need to be balanced. Because if you remove the huge hits that are the POINT of being mounted melee, I don't see the point in even having it. Might as well make it a secondary at that point. 300 primary points to have something only usable in certain areas that isn't awesome in those areas is super gimp.
Why would I play a build that limits my ability to fight in some of the most popular fighting locations in the game if it's not really damn good in the open field?
If 2-3 shotting people is OP, then the factors making it so need to be balanced. Because if you remove the huge hits that are the POINT of being mounted melee, I don't see the point in even having it. Might as well make it a secondary at that point. 300 primary points to have something only usable in certain areas that isn't awesome in those areas is super gimp.
Please enjoy this Mortal Online classic. A little back story. Henrik's father had a maul in RL that he was very fond of so it was added to the game and did god tier damage.
You're complaining about not being able to fight on horseback in GK and Fab? Really man?
Also mounted melee doubles as a footfighter, so you always have to option to dismount. You talk like you're trapped on your mount without any other option.
And I dont see the point of mounted melee being huge hits. I see them as scouts, flankers, harassers, chasing down people who are trying to flee, coordinating with your foot group. You seem to see them as mounted assassins...
Even in the old days, when a group was kiting and a mounted or two showed up to chase...it drastically lowered the chances of the kiting group being successful. This was before the ridiculousness of the video posted above me lmao
Also mounted melee doubles as a footfighter, so you always have to option to dismount. You talk like you're trapped on your mount without any other option.
And I dont see the point of mounted melee being huge hits. I see them as scouts, flankers, harassers, chasing down people who are trying to flee, coordinating with your foot group. You seem to see them as mounted assassins...
Even in the old days, when a group was kiting and a mounted or two showed up to chase...it drastically lowered the chances of the kiting group being successful. This was before the ridiculousness of the video posted above me lmao
Mounted melee is 200 primary points not counting creature control. Yes. If it's not going to function in GK and Fab it should deal some massive hits because 200 primary points is a pretty notable sacrifice for a melee build. Yeah, you're not useless once you dismount. But you are sure as hell at a disadvantage given you can easily fill a build entirely with footfighter relevant skills.
The complaint isn't that you can't fight in urban environments mounted. That makes sense. The complaint is, why the hell would you do that if there is no payoff outside those areas?
If you simply need someone to slow down a retreat, it's 0-100 points for a mounted mage as any kind of mage/tamer has all the skills they need with the very optional exception of controlled riding.
The complaint isn't that you can't fight in urban environments mounted. That makes sense. The complaint is, why the hell would you do that if there is no payoff outside those areas?
If you simply need someone to slow down a retreat, it's 0-100 points for a mounted mage as any kind of mage/tamer has all the skills they need with the very optional exception of controlled riding.
1 - In a game that's PvP aspect is supposed to be skill based, 1 shotting should never be a thing outside of hitting nakeds, for mounted or foot. Neither should super spongey PvP, it has to be fine tuned somewhere in the middle to make decision making impactful, but not giving a huge advantage to a single entity. High burst damage should viable, but when burst damage becomes something you can repeatedly just do, with little draw back, it's a huge issue.
2 - Early days of MO1 mounted gameplay would like a word with you, where it was completely different and then fast forward 2 years and the balance was out the window and continued to be imbalanced for near a decade.
3 - Terrain isn't refined yet, just a few months ago, foot characters could barely walk over a rock, let alone jump. Shit, footies can barely climb half the hills and mountains in this game, since apparently every hill is mount Everest. Mounts aren't even in the game properly yet, their stats and overall functionality and variety isn't a thing. Give it time, and I bet Lykiators won't be the only spider mounts in the game, there will be horses too. Only difference is Lyks are supposed to be spider mounts. Though it might not matter anyway, since footies can only maneuver over 20% of the hills/mountains in this game, might aswell make the map flat to make it easier for mounted lel
Mounted damage should be based on weapon, speed, mass and momentum, but both ways. Faster you go, more damage you deal, but also the more damage yourself will take, and higher chance of dismount. Acceleration should build up, not work instantly. No instant stopping and on the dime turning, dealing max damage. A huge problem in MO1, was mounted had the best hp, best speed, best maneuverability, best damage, best stamina making it the the best thing in the game. That's bad balance, and should not be repeated in MO2.
It's too early to judge how mounted will be in MO2, it's just a bunch of words the devs have said. And MO vets are used to a bunch of words with no proper follow up. Time will tell.