Full loot but not really? Remake trinckets

[Albanjo Dravae]

Or change the name and image of them. Trinkets are physical items which means when you die they should remain where you died by the law of physics. Same with spell book and starter sword/torch/etc.

Suggestion is change the name to soul stones which would be more magical and can replace trinkets. Also spell book to spell knowledge so when you die you don’t lose it and just get rid of starter sword and torch entirely.

@Henrik Nyström

It's not a denomination issue, it's a concept problematic.

I think you think of trinkets wrong. They are supposed to allow us to expand our builds with more primary/profession points or to expand on attributes. That's why they're soulbound, because dropping them would mean that they're unreliable which results in not beiing worth to update your build for them. And if they were craftable they would become mandatory for everyone since every time you'd die you'd have to replace mandatory part of your build to continue to function.

They might as well be consumable potions that revert their effects on death for which you also need to buy refils for set amount from vendors to recover the effects. The form of beiing equipable trinkets is just one of the ways they could have gone about the desired effect on gameplay, yours idea would just lead to them beiing ignored with the current rules we have for them.

I'm not against the idea but only once jewelcrafting is in the game, currently it would render the trinkets mechanic poinltess.

I know how the mechanic is supposed to be, i don't get why is so poorly implemented. The whole roll and stats make sense, to certain ítems have a direct impact in builds.

Theres only a handfull of ways to get high tier trinckets, for getting better ones you need pre-existing trinckets to boost that chance.

Understanding how these ítems operate is key to understand in which terms they operate. Their design is flawed and stupid no matter where you see it from.

The game is built under the premise of items consuption, materials to use, stockpile or sell. Being pvp the only thing that makes people lose stuff and need to make or buy more is what makes the game work, the economy flow, players need to travel, etc.

While whole pve and crafting is so poorly made and simplifyed for dumb kids it still does this, in a manner and not so much anymore because theres a lot of design issues and off balance content.

Trinckets have been made the lazy way. They should signify another system thats deep enough for players to invest and the market to function around it.

A very different thing would be if the best trinckets would be made by crafters, that require other crafting classes to develop the best trinckets in the game. That would make people farm shit, people placing buy orders, discover how trinckets are made and even better add bast variety to control in some manner the effects the trincket will have.

Leaving such a gamechanging feature to mobs drops and even worse, reward only zerg gameplay and the use of pre-nerf trinckets sets the base for a off-balance set of activities that does not contribute yo the general playerbase to interact more organically.

The number of things and ways you can do to get high tier trinckets is very límited after a long period of grace time where the people that farmed got the best ítems in the game, and thats just retarded design.

Now i assume you know how trinckets work.

That being said, understanding how more or less the concept of the game works why add a piss poor piece of content that defeats the whole concept of the game. With ítems that can't be player made, ítems that are bound, ítems that don't have dura, ítems that bypasses the mortality" or ephemeral concept of the game takes away more than it adds.

You could say trinckets move the market and actívate things. But not really, just made a handfull of people have a bunch of pre patch broken good trinckets and a handfull of people have to farm massive smounts of flux exploiting till nerf and they let them do that, because some things are exploits and other things aint, according to SV.

So, they made the grind for trinckets for spiritists to get flux, annoying boring ass activity with brain dead AI or better yet not existant AI.
A full rng drop system that rewards pre-existing pre-patch bound ítems and zerg gameplay.

I think whoever says this change is more possitive than negative is a fucking Disney channel imbecile.
That someone thought trinckets would be a good "gold sink" is idiotic and more idiotic is SV to think that would actually represent anything healthy to the game whatsoever.

It's stupid to pretend the recharge cost should replace the item cost. You can't repair gear in mortal and everything you have is eventually lost, except "some things".

Instead of bound ítems, trinckets should drop on death and be player made. Theres absolutly no risk on having bound ítems and the game design shouldn't go that way.
The abilities or effects of trinckets could obviously be re-adjusted to have a purpose if they drop on death.

I don't see how making all content dropable defeats the idea of having ítems that benefit your builds, stat or skill wise. Theres an infinite spectrum of variables that could be taken into consideration for trinckets to buff.

But for me it's mind blowing how anyone could think these trinckets are any good. It's the worst piece of shit shallow ass feature they added recently after bounty hunter fail, trinckets are aids.

Everything in an open pvp game promotes zerging. There's not really anything I can think of that doesnt. In the end its still risk v reward, the risk being the large gold cost to charge the trinket and the reward is the stats it gives. Which in my opinion are never good enough to justify the insane gold cost high tier ones have. Yes a mega zerger shouldnt die often but if they do thats a lot of gold lost. and this is MO, they could die from their game crashing or getting flame striked from a mile away by soem exploiter lmao.

My point was that theres a lot of things that give an advantage that dont drop. So trinkets arent that different.

Lets see it's understandable zergs have the upper hand because of player organization will allways be more rewarded because of that. Nobody argues that, problem is when everything in the game is zerg directed and theres no hardbrake mechanics for that shit.
I've explained múltiple times, in múltiple threads how not thinking content for a variety of playstyles is bad for the game, You want red nicknames and statloss and murdercount and someone to whip You when being a bad boy but you don't say anything about the lack of tools or world design for other gamestyles.
This game is not a zerg simulator and it shouldn't be, addressing design issues to change that is invaluable for the game.

Theres no risk on using trinckets, i dont know what risk you refering to.

Exploiters and crashing is not part of the world's risk lol and zergs have much lesser risk and much more higher reward, thats just how math works no other way to put it.

When i say trinckets should be player made and dropable i refer that would be a understandable scenario for that content. Making high tier trinckets should be expensive and using them rewarding, losing them is part of the world's risk. But no, people wants to have bound ítems they can transport in ghostmode.

What about spellboks? those need to drop on death to, its bad game design wtf.

I don't see why not books could drop, another stupid exception to the world's rules bacause SV doesnt have the brain capacity to design one single thing properly.

But books at least should be equipped offhand and the set of spells that use should be from the equipped book. Among other things obviously.

But thanks you for pointing that out, ítems that bypass mortality" in mortal are dogshit.

 

[Jatix]

Theres no risk on using trinckets, i dont know what risk you refering to.

Do trinkets not have to be re charged on death like MO1? Because if so the good one that are high tier cost way more, so if you die and have to pay a ton to charge it, thats risk involved. If it does work this way tho, I've always thought it should drop a partial charge. they want it to gold sink so it cant be 100%, but like a 50% charge drop still feels a bit more MO.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Do trinkets not have to be re charged on death like MO1? Because if so the good one that are high tier cost way more, so if you die and have to pay a ton to charge it, thats risk involved. If it does work this way tho, I've always thought it should drop a partial charge. they want it to gold sink so it cant be 100%, but like a 50% charge drop still feels a bit more MO.

What, paying gold for recharging a bound item, lol what's next bound rechargable weapons? So much risk

 

[Jatix]

What, paying gold for recharging a bound item, lol what's next bound rechargable weapons? So much risk

You said theres no risk but there is. what's the difference in paying 500g to recharge ur shitty trinket or paying 500g for a new high tier armor set on the broker (as the guy who dies)? The only thing that changes is that the good armor set helped until you died to magic that ignores armor and the trinket was almost useless the whole time.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

You said theres no risk but there is. what's the difference in paying 500g to recharge ur shitty trinket or paying 500g for a new high tier armor set on the broker (as the guy who dies)? The only thing that changes is that the good armor set helped until you died to magic that ignores armor and the trinket was almost useless the whole time.

Because its a contradiction in the economic design. For me trinckets are a feature that came in form of a gimped system that could have been less crippling to the core rules and more rewarding, not just preserve the concept of "full loot" even tho it is something worth preserving.

First of all, theres a very narrowed spectrum of activities for getting the trinckets, then its mandatory to have pre-existant trinckets to boost the quality of the next drops, they can't be made by players while the game has all the materials ingame.

The progression is shit and directed to a very specific type of groups and activities. Then some people were boosted during pre-nerf stages of trinckets, adquired the best trinckets in the game and then shit got nerfed to the ground. Suddently wilderness activities and pve that doesn't require boss killing or collective gameplay is out of the table honestly.

Then theres this concept of "gold sink features" as a counterpart to material sink features, such as crafting.

How i see it is how trinckets are right now affect a small minority of gamestyles while it could have been a much deeper scenario that would involve the pre-existing mechanics and features the game already has, making gathering a part of it would be essential and should generate a complex diversity of pve activities for all playstyles.

So, understanding how the economy works in mortal, we can basically say the model is for players to do certain PVE which translates later on to ways to profit or craft, materials and gold. Using materials is essential for the game, even more essential than gold usage because gold is a coin and can be used on anything and it will continue to devalue no matter how many "gold sink" features they add into the game.

Correct would have been for trinckets to have a proper background to function and integrate the world organically or at least more organically within the rulesets or parameters the game has".
Imagine, the making of trinckets could involve a diversity of pve activities and crafting classes for someone to be able to make a trincket. Putting in motion an organic production fabric that requires several gamestyles to interact.

Imagine trincket crafting having around 4-5 materials making metals from extraction more usable, making jewels have a meaning, or even more complex jewellers needing specific tools made by other crafting classes to create better trinckets. Theres no roof where you can involve people doing a bunch of different activites that could very much be the things the game already has.

A crafting system for trinckets shouldn't be something hard to achieve in terms of the concept and implementation when it could be very similar to how other crafting classes work but it would be much more rewarding.

Now, why is it so important to preserve and encourage this crafting systems. Not because im a pve-crafter demented fuck, its because PVE should exist to give purpose to the game and the players, to offer out of the box progression, be challening and cautivating, involving other players and more conceptual reinforcements.
Having a shitty half baked trincket system made for simpletons to group up and gank bosses or for fishermans to spend their lifetime trying to catch something thats not absolute garbage, or solo players having to farm hundreds of bandits to get cuprum trinckets, spiritists having to do really tediouss shit for flux, theres no trincket buffs for crafting either.

Like, come on man. Nothing trincket related is good, except their buffs, which are an interesting way to offer certain degree of build spect.

Then, the idea of "full loot" contributes to the item consumption design of the game. Something people don't seem to understand.
PVP exists to create conflict, conflict rules is that you die you lose your shit. Having to replace the shit translates to time investment, either buying, crafting, regearing, etc.

The "loss" implyies one has to "use" to "restore" shit. While trinckets only take gold to restore their usefullness it does not require anything else, does not require to interact with other players and theres no risk of losing those items that buff your build.

So, this feature does not involve material sinkage. They don't break, don't drop. So the spectrum of activities involved turns out to be a very narrowed scenario.

In my eyes, its another placeholder terrible feature. And not making them dropable, breakable and crafteable goes against the core of the game and it cripples its design. Because they rather pile up stupid ass content instead of going in one direction and reinforce the game's concept as much as they can.

Idk if you played albion, but that would be the perfect example of how the risk-reward is managed concerning loot drop. Albion doesn't have exceptions to their own rules, the rules are clear and functional so it reinforces the concept of the game entirely and thats probably why it still is a successfull game even tho its a shitty low poly cellphone game.

Problem with mortal is they don't go all in. To close my idea ill make a metaphore.

Lets say mortal is a production for a movie, it has a good script nice story, theres an element in the story that generates "something" thats not really seen in other horror movies, one thing would be to reinforce that "something" to adquire more importance and to be central in the story and another option would be to downplay that "something" and work on mainstream resources, clichés, beaty-horror constrast, low-high volumes and high volume amplitude.

The question is. What does the direction want mortal to be, a cheesy mainstream wannabe mmorpg or something robust with its own marked identity.
SV has lost their direction, and not having this criteria element pointing to one particular direction makes this game specially themerpak'ish, specially shallow and broken.

I really don't get how some people are cool with this feature, its really terrible. Very low quality stuff, kind of embarrassing to be honest.

 

[Jatix]

Not because im a pve-crafter demented fuck

LOL I got a good laugh and smile out of this wholesome line.

You are 100% right the trinket system is shit and not what the game needs. It could have been some sick in depth system that you craft a high end trinket, that could be buffed further by imbuing it with some rare boss drop, then if they wanted it to be a gold sink could still be charged with some thing that also partially drops to still give the winner some bonus reward. But instead we got the shitty system copy pasted over from MO1 like the majority of this games flaws lmao.

I'm not trying to defend the bad trinket system in any way, I think it sucks. I just think trinkets not dropping is the least of this games current issues. If Sv updated today and made trinkets drop it would have no effect on my current 0 interest in logging in. In and ideal world I'd want them to redo the trinket system. but currently I'd rather they work on the things that matter. Which they likely aren't working on either lmao.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

LOL I got a good laugh and smile out of this wholesome line.

You are 100% right the trinket system is shit and not what the game needs. It could have been some sick in depth system that you craft a high end trinket, that could be buffed further by imbuing it with some rare boss drop, then if they wanted it to be a gold sink could still be charged with some thing that also partially drops to still give the winner some bonus reward. But instead we got the shitty system copy pasted over from MO1 like the majority of this games flaws lmao.

I'm not trying to defend the bad trinket system in any way, I think it sucks. I just think trinkets not dropping is the least of this games current issues. If Sv updated today and made trinkets drop it would have no effect on my current 0 interest in logging in. In and ideal world I'd want them to redo the trinket system. but currently I'd rather they work on the things that matter. Which they likely aren't working on either lmao.

I know you aint defending trinckets but you made some fair points.

It's not the least of the game's issues. It's one of the biggest issues to be honest, placeholder content is a Big Big issue.

I don't think people realize how much of a problem is to not aknowledge piling up shitty placeholder content makes the game trash.

In this forums some people complain for the good things mortal has and enjoy the shitty stuff. People that likes placeholder content.

Fixing, remaking and tweaking every piece of content the game has to the date would be priority. Having a world that makes sense and the mechanics work as a organic cluster of activities for players to feel" in the world.

Seen some people feel theres something off with the game and most of the time they complain about punitive systems because why not make mortal mainstream MMORPG for dumbass kids.
Whats wrong with the game are the isolated pieces of garbage content being piled up like if it's good shit. PVE is absolute garbage dude omg.

 

[Moored]

Nah they are fine being soul bound. I think they are intended to be for character development. Kinda like clade points. Should we lose all clade experience on death too?

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Nah they are fine being soul bound. I think they are intended to be for character development. Kinda like clade points. Should we lose all clade experience on death too?

Don't be silly dude, trinckets are not "fine" its the ultimate exponent of placeholder garbage lazy development.

Progression is defined by a number of things, trincket progression is idiotic and the fact they aint crafteable remarks how they defeat the interaction variables approach the game should encourage.

Next time you say something make sure it's worth reading, and not a dumbass comment.

 

[Anabolic Man]

I personally like that trinkets are not lootable, becuase otherwise noone woudl wear the. Armor and weapons are easy replaceable and trinkets take month to farm and craft. Noone would use them if they drop.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

I personally like that trinkets are not lootable, becuase otherwise noone woudl wear the. Armor and weapons are easy replaceable and trinkets take month to farm and craft. Noone would use them if they drop.

When i say remake" i mean, remake.
Not implying trinckets should have the same effects in the same way. Also making them crafteable and accessible would be the best way to encourage material consumption, pve and trading.

I've talked about all this already.

 

[Anabolic Man]

When i say remake" i mean, remake.
Not implying trinckets should have the same effects in the same way. Also making them crafteable and accessible would be the best way to encourage material consumption, pve and trading.

I've talked about all this already.

This is my suggestion ! https://mortalonline2.com/forums/threads/ideas-to-improve-trinket-crafting.8965/

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

This is my suggestion ! https://mortalonline2.com/forums/threads/ideas-to-improve-trinket-crafting.8965/

Nice nice, i've seen it. Played POE since closed beta, its a wonderfull game, we could' grab some-thing/s, interesting concepts and ideas its definitely a game to look up at its mechanics but theres also another consideration that those systems exist in a complete different universe than mortal, its another genre completly.

Now, the rolling mechanics work that way because POE is rng drop based game where you can't craft" items in the traditional way, so everything in the game supports that concept, everything is built around those mechanics, its not casual design and byproduct of piling up shitty content. POE is a game that has a really good and on point development criteria and they know what they want and deliver to the players, a great example of a good game.

Mortal on the other side has a more traditional" crafting, and crafting involves a number of players activities. Crafting exists under the premise of a "full loot world" meaning that the item consumption stipulates the configuration of the world.

Theres a bast number of materials ingame that has no use whatsoever, the so called "placeholder" features. Something thats ingame but most likely doesn't do what it should or nothing at all.

Now, the configuration of mortal's world is material consumption based, thats what keeps the market flowing, making players farm, craft and trade, the organic grid of activites involving players. Now, dont you think the game should encourage that concept? The same way POE develops their game under their concept without defeating it.

The dev team of mortal thought at some point that exceptions to the elemental and fundamental core rules of the game would" be something good, such as delivering trinckets patch, where doesn't involve any crafting, or material farming or meaningfull-diverse pve activities and they don't even drop on death.

This feature is built under the premise of gold" consumption, but thats a terrible lack of criteria. You can't solve any issue with the game implementing features that goes against the core of the game.

Yes there has to be gold sink features, but not like this. Trinckets should be crafteable and require / encourage player interaction, in which terms?

By making them crafteable and dropable, breakable you support the concept of material consumption the game has. Making crafting an interesting feature that requires a diversity of crafting classes produceding items to generate other items, theres an activation of the market.


I don't even wanna suggest a system, and i can think of hundreds of possible systems for making trinckets crafteable under mortal's concept but that would be a clear waste of time.
But i will very simply make an example on how trincket crafting could have been.

First, a jeweller crafting class creation, with all its skills related, obviously understanding jeweller's craftmanship lore (irl), parts and types of rings and necklaces, materials, how are they made, different techniques, etc. Thats like the preliminar.

After that, you can define how rings and necklaces can be made in the game. Lets say for example rings have 3 to 4 pieces and the 4th is optional for example.

Now these pieces" or items" required to craft trinckets should be made by players using materials obviously. Now which materials? The more the better, open the playfield for crafting exploration. Idk, a bone-skadite amethyst ring, what does it do? Well we know using bone for certain part of the ring will have an specific effect, depending on how you configurate these things the result.

Now the question is how to make crafting more involving. By making different degrees of complexity, and by complexity i mean exploration of features and player interaction.

Lets say a jeweller can make trinckets on its own without requiring anything from other crafting classes yet for specific and/or better results a jeweller should require items made by other crafting classes. What does that do? Well it creates the need to trade, which is plain and simple player interaction.
Now the actual challenge is to make this crafting appealling, interesting, challening, making it involve a diversity of gamestyles and players.

Trinckets could still be recharged for something, and reroll mechanics could still exist because i don't see why not.

And i could keep going man, and get more specific but i wont. Instead we get mob drop trinckets, no material consumption, no crafting and a very shitty PVE design. The way trinckets are introduced into the game couldn't be more placeholder bullshit.

And when i say bound and non crafteable items go against the concept of the game, they truly do and its a mistake and a massive lack of criteria. The good thing of mortal is thats supposed to be an "out of the box"-sandbox, something thats not the classic mainstream mmorpg, the full loot concept, the crafting and all that should serve the core and fundamental idea which made mortal interesting in the first place, not dumbing down the game, going against it's best qualities.

I truly don't understand how people cannot see that when you find" something thats good you exploit" it, use it, take advantage from it, and thats mortal's concept. You don't break it or go against it, unless thats what you are looking for, self boycott.

But i can see that on your suggestion you are trying to make the feature better" this idea to build on top of it because its really mean to tell someone what they did is garbage. I don't consider trinckets feature can be "improved" by substracting mechanics from POE, i think trinckets have been made completly wrong, from the start, its a very shitty shitty feature.

I follow this philosophy that when you have to do something you gotta do it right the first time otherwise you have to do it again later on. But i guess can do it wrong and just be a shitter.

 

[Jasa]

Character progression has to happen in some measurable facet. if you stopped progressing at some point than the game ends there and we get planetside 2 syndrome where people quit after getting all 3-4 characters maxed out. The game should be an UPKEEP not a reset on a bad day.

Trinkets are a goldsink that you will be paying ad infinatum and people who die will feel that 60g drop to recharge trinkets. (more if you go for the really high end) You will need to be paying these bills to play at a high end level. If you make it so trinkets drop and keep their rarity than you create a game where the good PVPers get all the trinkets and now PVE players who suck at PVP have nothing to progress towards outside of clade. If you make them have higher drop chance you now ruinate scarcity and Trinkets do not have durability so eventually even the newest of players will have Gold+ trinkets for pennies or you make it so 3 charges and the trinket is gone. Flux and goldsink now gone unless you rework flux into recharges but then its not really a goldsink and you are just shoving doopers gold to someone else and inflation stays the same/gets worse.

All this would do regarding trinkets is make it so ZERGS are the only viable playstyle since they can move in waves to secure loot. Do you really want to make it so the only guilds that will want to do anything are Koto?

On clade if you think perma progression should be shacked down in a Full loot game, than make it so you lose 1 level of clade or 1/10th of clade exp per death + Deleveling. Let's take it to the logical extreme here.

Making Spellbooks drop would kill all the mages from playing the game and end content. I've talked with many mages and most would quit the game, this would also limit the number of new mages and make them just heal bots who would become disillusioned when losing progression and quit the game. This is nothing compared to how the more rare schools are going to be locked. You think Ritualism is sucking right now with only 5 perhaps 10 people who have it now? Consider what is going to happen when Dragon Magic comes out and the only Dragon Master is unable to get/keep those spells and need to TEACH to another mage. Someone could just delete the book and boom an entire magic school is just gone or held hostage.

Unless you buff mages so they 2 shot footies and make it so they cannot be interrupted than get out with that thinking.

Could you make an argument for only keeping one Soulbound book so scribes do not carry around 10 books? possibly.

Spellbooks, Equipped Trinkets and Clade are your perma progression. Unless you think all of them should be affected than reconsider.

 

[ElPerro]

Nah they are fine being soul bound. I think they are intended to be for character development. Kinda like clade points. Should we lose all clade experience on death too?

Only trinkets with +skills fit this criteria. I think the best way to balance it is remove the +skills from trinkets and refactor them into something else that would remain soulbound (gems, charms, idk). Then the trinkets with +stats and +dmg mods, etc. should all drop on death like any item. Problem solved.

Character progression has to happen in some measurable facet. if you stopped progressing at some point than the game ends there and we get planetside 2 syndrome where people quit after getting all 3-4 characters maxed out. The game should be an UPKEEP not a reset on a bad day.

Trinkets are a goldsink that you will be paying ad infinatum and people who die will feel that 60g drop to recharge trinkets. (more if you go for the really high end) You will need to be paying these bills to play at a high end level. If you make it so trinkets drop and keep their rarity than you create a game where the good PVPers get all the trinkets and now PVE players who suck at PVP have nothing to progress towards outside of clade. If you make them have higher drop chance you now ruinate scarcity and Trinkets do not have durability so eventually even the newest of players will have Gold+ trinkets for pennies or you make it so 3 charges and the trinket is gone. Flux and goldsink now gone unless you rework flux into recharges but then its not really a goldsink and you are just shoving doopers gold to someone else and inflation stays the same/gets worse.

All this would do regarding trinkets is make it so ZERGS are the only viable playstyle since they can move in waves to secure loot. Do you really want to make it so the only guilds that will want to do anything are Koto?

On clade if you think perma progression should be shacked down in a Full loot game, than make it so you lose 1 level of clade or 1/10th of clade exp per death + Deleveling. Let's take it to the logical extreme here.

Making Spellbooks drop would kill all the mages from playing the game and end content. I've talked with many mages and most would quit the game, this would also limit the number of new mages and make them just heal bots who would become disillusioned when losing progression and quit the game. This is nothing compared to how the more rare schools are going to be locked. You think Ritualism is sucking right now with only 5 perhaps 10 people who have it now? Consider what is going to happen when Dragon Magic comes out and the only Dragon Master is unable to get/keep those spells and need to TEACH to another mage. Someone could just delete the book and boom an entire magic school is just gone or held hostage.

Unless you buff mages so they 2 shot footies and make it so they cannot be interrupted than get out with that thinking.

Could you make an argument for only keeping one Soulbound book so scribes do not carry around 10 books? possibly.

Spellbooks, Equipped Trinkets and Clade are your perma progression. Unless you think all of them should be affected than reconsider.

Like I said above, the issue with trinkets is they mixed permanent character progression mods like +skills with damage, luck, hp, mana, etc. mods which dont break your character. They need to make the separation.

For spellbooks they could add durability to scrolls so you can scribe them multiple times until they break, then let them drop on death. Its just dumb that mages never risk anything but shitty armor and reagents.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Character progression has to happen in some measurable facet. if you stopped progressing at some point than the game ends there and we get planetside 2 syndrome where people quit after getting all 3-4 characters maxed out. The game should be an UPKEEP not a reset on a bad day.

Trinkets are a goldsink that you will be paying ad infinatum and people who die will feel that 60g drop to recharge trinkets. (more if you go for the really high end) You will need to be paying these bills to play at a high end level. If you make it so trinkets drop and keep their rarity than you create a game where the good PVPers get all the trinkets and now PVE players who suck at PVP have nothing to progress towards outside of clade. If you make them have higher drop chance you now ruinate scarcity and Trinkets do not have durability so eventually even the newest of players will have Gold+ trinkets for pennies or you make it so 3 charges and the trinket is gone. Flux and goldsink now gone unless you rework flux into recharges but then its not really a goldsink and you are just shoving doopers gold to someone else and inflation stays the same/gets worse.

All this would do regarding trinkets is make it so ZERGS are the only viable playstyle since they can move in waves to secure loot. Do you really want to make it so the only guilds that will want to do anything are Koto?

On clade if you think perma progression should be shacked down in a Full loot game, than make it so you lose 1 level of clade or 1/10th of clade exp per death + Deleveling. Let's take it to the logical extreme here.

Making Spellbooks drop would kill all the mages from playing the game and end content. I've talked with many mages and most would quit the game, this would also limit the number of new mages and make them just heal bots who would become disillusioned when losing progression and quit the game. This is nothing compared to how the more rare schools are going to be locked. You think Ritualism is sucking right now with only 5 perhaps 10 people who have it now? Consider what is going to happen when Dragon Magic comes out and the only Dragon Master is unable to get/keep those spells and need to TEACH to another mage. Someone could just delete the book and boom an entire magic school is just gone or held hostage.

Unless you buff mages so they 2 shot footies and make it so they cannot be interrupted than get out with that thinking.

Could you make an argument for only keeping one Soulbound book so scribes do not carry around 10 books? possibly.

Spellbooks, Equipped Trinkets and Clade are your perma progression. Unless you think all of them should be affected than reconsider.

Not saying trinckets shouldn't imply a gold usage, thats fine. Aslong as the main" concept of trinckets is material consumption and loss", the game economy is based in material consumption, you want gold being traded at significant scales besides having an NPC that drains it. And by significant scales i don't refer people paying a stack or 5 stacks of gold for a trincket, i mean the amount of people that would benefit from a deep crafting production model" for example.

Progression shouldn't be in form of bound items, progression in MO1 was to get materials and gold for doing the things you wanted. Exploring crafting classes such as alchemy or making good soph foods, perhaps having really good gear for pvp, among other things.

Now i don't disagree progression should/could happen at a character's build level but i disagree with how it does.

I disagree with upkeep based gameplay, i think its a really bad to get a game going. I believe in the ephemeral nature of the world and how that" chance to lose stuff is one of the actual fuels to do things.
You just said it, trinckets are nothing better than the planetside syndrome because even tho you will have to use gold to recharge shit u don't lose it and that by itself defeats the ephemeral concept the game has been built on.

Currently yes, high quality trinckets are easy to get if you are in a zerg and specially if you have people with pre-patch trinckets that boost luck and shit.
Theres no activities that involve other types of gameplays, so trinckets just impact meaningfully on a small minority of the population while other types of gameplays have no chance except what, farm a lot of gold for buying a good trincket?
Fishing trinckets is a joke and only one way to get it besides drop, and its bad.

The way i see it, the how" should have been.

Is basically trinckets that are mob drop and player made. The crafting should involve a bast diversity of gamestyles to farm, trade, craft and interact to get high quality trinckets flowing, thats how you scatter the gold usage instead of polarizing it on big groups necessarily.

All this would do regarding trinkets is make it so ZERGS are the only viable playstyle since they can move in waves to secure loot. Do you really want to make it so the only guilds that will want to do anything are Koto?

To be honest, i vouch for anti-zerg content. Thats the whole idea of this thread, to diversify the amount and quality of activities for anything thats not zerg. And thats precisely why i want trinckets to be crafteable, to encourage a large portion of the population to do activities. I think the current model is completly zerg directed and it really sucks.

Clade is not an item, and a really bad example. I don't like how clades are made, they have a lot of fundamental errors and mistakes, if you ask me 70% of clades is placeholder. And no, by applying a basic logic we can understand clades are character's aptitudes adquired by action and there wouldn't be a point for losing that progression, unless there was a system to back that idea up. But with the current design theres no need to make clades disappear when you die, thats just a phallacious comparison.

For making mage books drop it would require massive changes so its no that punishing to lose a book. They could have made books work inherently to the material consumption/crafting fundamental design of the game and it would be way more rewarding to player interaction and the overall configuration of PVE.
But obviously, just making books drop on death with the current design they have would be something really off and nonsensical.

If it was up to me, i'd change the system entirely. Making books equipable and dropable, book crafters that work with scribers to make more or less accessible books and micro manage mage builds for different playstyles.

"perma progression" defeats the basic concept the game is built on. Theres nothing you say thats gonna make me think otherwise, i believe if they actually followed that concept without any exception to the rules the game would be a way more complex appealling and compelling scenary for the vast mayority of the gamestyles.

But when you don't follow the main concept and you antagonize it, the results are going to be something thats off and its not working as its supposed to.