Different keep types

[Lufan]

Well this suggestion might shake things off a bit, but I think it's for the better, especially due to us not having the keeps out yet.

As for right now, all the keeps, in all areas, appear to be looking the same type of keep.

What I'm thinking is... To make each keep unique by it's own, so it has different weaknesses and pros of its own.
Maybe even make it that upon building a keep, you get the option to choose which keep type you want it to be.

So it can be something like: Focus on having better walls / better anti-siege weapons / better positions for militia with flanking options / better at trading / better weapon making etc.. and each keep owner would have to use what the keep has to offer him to his and his armies' advantage.
(that's why I'd rather go for having this pre-arranged keeps depending on the area rather than having the option to choose your keep type, so each area would have it's own uniqueness to it rather than be able to choose, but I'll leave that open for discussion)

Each keep type would require different materials for gathering, which would make the whole aspect a little more challenging and bring more color to the game, also economically-wise.

- After a short discussion regarding that matter, I have came with a better idea I'm for:
Say you get your regional keep, which offers you some X value whatever that is (for example better walls), but you want to get Y value for your keep (better army positioning for example)
So the regional keep would request you to get materials around the keeps area, but if you wish to get a different keep type, you'd have to get different type of materials in order to build it, which could be more challenging and might require you to work around with diplomatics or buying/trading materials for others.

 

[Najwalaylah]

it has different weaknesses and pros of its own.

This is an interesting idea, but doesn't the territory of the Keep, the immediate surroundings and the position relative to resources ("Location, location, location"), already provide the pros & cons?

 

[Lufan]

What I mean by pros and cons of different keeps:

Say like for example:

Keep type: Better Walls
Pros: Better defense against siege weapons, good for archers positioning
Neutral: Weapon crafting doesn't suffer any weakness effect.
Cons: Less income from trading & taxes / Takes longer to make siege defenses and position them on the walls (etc, can get creative on that)

Keep type: Better anti-siege weapons
Pros: Faster building speed, better siege weapons on a basic looking keep with normal keep walls.
Neutral: Trading isn't getting a penality, normal walls
Cons: Weaker weapon crafting

Keep type: Better positions for militia with flanking options
Pros: Main base gets extra 2 small bases around the area. (subject to change), weapon making is slightly better
Neutral: Trading isn't affected, normal weapon crafting
Cons: Walls are much weaker than the other bases, weak siege weapons.

Keep type: Better at trading
Pros: Much greater trading, extra tax, great bonus for materials gathering, great for increasing the guild's economics and doing business with fellow guilds.
Neutral: Normal walls (?), normal siege weapons, normal weapon crafting (?)
Cons: Weaker walls (?), weaker weapon crafting (?) makes it an area of interest for enemy guilds for raiding


Keep type: Better weapon making
Pros: Much greater weapons and armor making (maybe giving certain stats boosts), making it an interesting keep to do business with.
Neutral: Normal walls (?), normal siege weapons, normal trading (?)
Cons: Weaker walls (?), weaker trading (?)

I will leave that kind of balancing to those whom are in charge, take it as a draft of what it could be like.
What I'd like to say is that such a thing should be fairly balanced and maybe the regional keep option shouldn't be the most desirable one territory-wise, so the guilds should have a better motivation to do a different type of keep according to the area and positioning, making it harder challenge to aim for and require more attention and focus to be put on, to get the requested results.

 

[Raknor]

This is an interesting idea, but doesn't the territory of the Keep, the immediate surroundings and the position relative to resources ("Location, location, location"), already provide the pros & cons?

This ^^

Moh-Ki keep looks awesome by the way.

(Also, not a fan of random bonuses to keeps - you should want a specific keep because you control the area where the keep is and want taxation power not because you get x% bonus to something)

 

[Najwalaylah]

I will leave that kind of balancing to those whom are in charge, take it as a draft of what it could be like.

Thank you for taking the time to explain in detail what kind of thing you meant; not many posters make that effort.

Balancing seems to be the key word. As far as we know, Star Vault has made a great effort to improve the equality of Keep locations as far as structure goes. For example, some Keep spots used to be placed or oriented around natural features like mountains that made it a little too easy to get inside in ways that couldn't be foreseen before building, or perhaps it was possible to fire siege weapons with greater effect than anywhere else, or the walls didn't quite close at the seams (that's now more important in a way it wasn't previously, since changes to collission, etc., isn't it? You can shoot or stab through holes you can see through).

If the Mortal Online 2 devs went to such care to eliminate those kinds of issues, I can't see why they would or should add them back in a different form.

Choices are Nice, Though!

( a list of things that aren't necessarily bad, just inevitable.):​

• The landmasses of Nave itself are deluged by the floods of tears if some group were to get, inherit, or deliberately build a type that they felt gimped them. I can imagine the complaints now: "They made us pay twice to install the same Keep because of their poor design decisions, and we weren't even defeated." (Justifiable complaint, or not.)
  • If you are someday able to conquer rather than destroy & rebuild a Keep (a thing players have long asked for), you don't want to have to rebuild it because it wasn't the kind that suited your purposes-- that would negate the advantage and some of the prestige of capturing it.
• A preferred type could easily emerge that would be the Flavour of the MO2 Era, regardless of the builders' inclinations.The type that (it turns out) you cannot afford NOT to have. Until something changes and you must have another kinds.
• Keep-owning Guilds would waste no time figuring out which kind of keep their competitors had, and choose some wars over others on that basis. Not that there's any bad reason to go to war, aside from self-sieging with another branch of the same guild.

Right now I wish I knew if Relics were coming back, because in some ways the advantages & disadvantages of your suggested system remind me of what Relics could accomplish, on a roatating basis.

I hope SV considers your ideas carefully.

 

[Lufan]

Thank you for taking the time to explain in detail what kind of thing you meant; not many posters make that effort.

Basically learning by example
The gratitude goes to you on this one.

And yeah, I trust they will.
I believe that trading and better weapon making keeps could be good for guilds that wish to stay neutral, I mean they might have certain guilds that are allies with them and have great interest in protecting that keep on the long term to earn from the benefits of it.

On the contrary those who are against the guilds who own these keeps, would intend to raid them to get some of what they got to offer.
There should be a lot of diplomacy and planning on how to do this right

But I honestly believe it is not going to be a very easy task to balance all the keeps so they would have the perfect balance, however it would still be very hard to determine which keeps are better than the others, since every guild has its own playstyle and different way of strategic planning, so it could be beneficial still and balanced depending on the skills of the players too.

And even if it wouldn't be super balanced, and there would be certain keeps that would be VERY hard to conquer, I think it would add a lot of color to the game, imagine the glory and triumph a guild would get after managing to conquer such an undefeated long lasting keep that haven't lost in ages.

Edit: Maybe after realizing a certain keep types would be way too OP, can later change it that it would require more materials to build and harder work, in order to keep the balance economically and strategically, or maybe buff the other keeps instead it should all be dynamic like that.