Attribute Rework

Do you think attributes should be reworked to be more valuable across the board?

  • Yes, in general

  • Yes, in the way you purpose

  • No (please post why)

  • Other


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Kaemik

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@Evelyn - I actually think if diminishing returns get implemented in isolation that the build that would benefit most would be hybrids. Right now one of the most major controls on a hybrid's power is that you have to balance between strength and int with neither helping both of your functions all that much. If int is relevant to melee, and strength relevant to magic hybrids get stronger as a build.

Still, I think if hybrids are too powerful there are other ways to go about balancing them. The issue is diminishing returns are an absolute must-have for any semblance of racial balance or variety of builds within a race. MO1 spent over 10 years trying to balance races without them and while they managed to make small headway, the gains they made were moderate and insufficient to put it generously. They are an industry-standard in games from tabletop D&D to most other MMOs for a reason.

Because if there is never a point that the barbarian's strength costs many times as much potential wisdom, all barbarians will be max strength, and if half-orc is the race with the highest strength cap, literally everyone whose a barbarian plays a half-orc. As with the D&D example, half-orc barbarian with min-maxed strength IS an incredibly popular build choice. But actual valid arguments can be made as to why not going 20 strength and instead investing those points in other stats is smart. For instance, I would usually have 12 int on a paladin so I could be more of a party-face despite int being considered a bottom tier paladin stat. No such argument can be made for MO1 or the system they now have for MO2. Strength is simply better as a melee fighter and you're kind of a fool if you drop a single point of it for Int or Phy.
 
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ThaBadMan

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What? No I am saying that you don't throw out the entire system when two of the core combat mechanics aren't in the game yet. Sane people have been saying not to change melee too much more until after we see mages and mounted players in the game. Sane people have also been saying not to whine about magic until we see what the INT scaling and PSY benefits will be like.

You don't just change an entire system at once and hope nothing bad happens. That's completely irrational. You make small changes, record results, and then make more if necessary. The less valuable stats should be slightly tweaked to made more competitive to the strongest stats. Suggestions like "make INT affect bandaging speed and or amount" or "make siege weapon use be INT-based" are great ideas that make sense. Looking at the test results of PSY in MO1, it obviously needs to be more consistent (and magic should also be damaging enough that not taking any PSY should be a risk akin to having low CON, that is to say having 10 PSY should be a calculated risk of hoping a mage doesn't notice you always take full damage and will die fast.). DEX should have value in combat efficiency for all 3 combat types besides "well you can run away". There's a lot of manual dexterity involved in light weapons, archery, and spellcasting gestures.

Make sense? I am not saying "there should never be changes". The existing system should be improved, but this thread is not the way.
Yes because they actually think the game will magically get fixed by itself with those systems, but what they dont realize is that those two systems will only further imbalance the game and make balancing going forward way more complicated than if they had melee and archery finalized and balanced together.
Btw sane people will not be saying those things, sane people would look at past experiences with SV and base everything around that so think that magic will be almost an exact copy paste from MOs magic. Better to have them change the bad stuff before implementing it in MO2 and let the devs forget about it for 5 years...

Poeple still dont know I was there watching these same mistakes in MO over and over and over and over and over and over and over....

The way they develop MO and MO2 is literally totally the wrong way of developing a game, they did say they learned from MO but here we are with the same circus on our hands...
 

Kaemik

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It's not like diminishing returns are some radical untested idea. They're what you'll encounter in nearly every other game. And while nearly every other game has problems, no game I've ever played has ever come close to the racial imbalance problems of Mortal Online.

So yes, they will "magically fix" the problems if what you mean by "magically fix the problems" is take the massive game-breaking racial imbalances unique to MO and put them on the level of a normal RPG.
 

Rorry

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May 30, 2020
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Nope. My main will be balanced entirely around combat. I will not be wasting points in taming or thievery unless they are made combat relevant or moved to professions where they belong. I will not be putting points in Phyche unless it helps my combat build. If the game is good enough to justify it, I will have a 2nd or 3rd account entirely dedicated to crafting. But even if I play single account my combat main will never make sacrifices to be a better crafter. Not a single one. I enjoy crafting, but not enough to accept nerfs to my combat build. And MOST players who aren't hyper-casual carebears will be doing the same.

Any other school of thought represents a profound misjudgment of the character of not only hardcore PvP titles, but all competitive gamers ever.
I only said that I think SV intends. I do not think that they are correct.
 

ThaBadMan

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It's not like diminishing returns are some radical untested idea. They're what you'll encounter in nearly every other game. And while nearly every other game has problems, no game I've ever played has ever come close to the racial imbalance problems of Mortal Online.

So yes, they will "magically fix" the problems if what you mean by "magically fix the problems" is take the massive game-breaking racial imbalances unique to MO and put them on the level of a normal RPG.
Diminishing returns are a good QoL change but it wont really fix the games faults. At best DR will close in on racial imbalances.
They wont make combat better, stamina use, wont make combat harder, wont make parries harder, wont decrease TTK.

No single one feature or system can fix the blatant problems MO2 have gotten from the broken to the core game that is MO.
They had 1 chance to change the game with MO2 by learning from all the mistakes they did on MO, yet they do the exact same things to MO2 that ruined and broke MO.

We have wasted an entire year of development for no gain except the obvious one we knew we would get which was better tech and a better engine, other than that its near a clone from MO which is a game about to die because of its broken and imbalanced systems, features and gameplay.
And still we have people on here saying this or that will fix everything while we all SHOULD know it wont.
I think MO in its lifetime has been promised 20+ Jesus patches that will fix the game but hey here we still are watching brown nosers praising the devs for copy pasting the game said brown nosers have abandoned due to its state.
 

Kaemik

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I enjoy a high TTK. They fix the particular issue I have right now which is that there are more races that are non-viable for any particular build than there are that are actually viable.
 

Necromantic

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You can't do this with attribute effects alone, you also need corresponding skills. The whole system has to work as a whole.
That's the problem with most attempts at balance, they try to adjust singular or small aspects to tilt the balance, but the scale itself is off.
 
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Kaemik

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You can't do this with attribute effects alone, you also need corresponding skills. The whole system has to work as a whole.
That's the problem with most attempts at balance, they try to adjust singular or small aspects to tilt the balance, but the scale itself is off.

A skill rework in addition to the attribute rework could definitely have some positive effects but I think the attribute improvement in isolation is still a net gain. The skill system presents some issues but they're issues small enough if they never got fixed it would be ok. Meanwhile the attribute system is over here like:

752.jpg
 

Necromantic

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A skill rework in addition to the attribute rework could definitely have some positive effects but I think the attribute improvement in isolation is still a net gain. The skill system presents some issues but they're issues small enough if they never got fixed it would be ok.
The problem is without a skill improvement you are not only left with inefficiency due to skills not being affected by your attributes but also a huge disadvantage in skill pool. The right attributes can save you a lot of skill points and with a bigger skill point pool for one single character this will even be more so. In MO you could basically get about 1-2 extra skills maxed just from the skill point savings. I expect this to at least double in MO2 and that is for both action and profession skills, so basically quadruple that.
 

Kaemik

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Does his system actually propose to divorce the attribute system from free skills?
 

Necromantic

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I'm not talking about anyone's system. I'm talking about the current system versus the system you need to have for attributes to be balanced to begin with. By balancing attributes without adding attribute variety in skills you are literally not balancing attributes at all, because you are leaving out the skill part of attributes completely.

Btw sane people will not be saying those things, sane people would look at past experiences with SV and base everything around that so think that magic will be almost an exact copy paste from MOs magic. Better to have them change the bad stuff before implementing it in MO2 and let the devs forget about it for 5 years...
Sane people would have long stepped away and not put their hopes into anything. I think you and I have been around long enough to know that. :p

I think MO in its lifetime has been promised 20+ Jesus patches that will fix the game but hey here we still are watching brown nosers praising the devs for copy pasting the game said brown nosers have abandoned due to its state.
To be fair, they never promised that. That's just people assuming shit whenever an engine update or "expansion" is announced.
Same with UE3.5 back then. UE3.5 was never a thing anyway. It was just a bigger incremental update to UE3 and people freaked out over the possibilities.
And to be honest UE4 is basically the same thing just in bigger.
 
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