Aralis Enters the MO2 MMORPG Arena

ThaBadMan

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In what way is expanded occupations outside of randomly butchering your fellow players anything but "hardcore" in design? "Hardcore" doesn't just mean deatchmatching every single naked noob you come across, nor does "hardcore" only mean using your naked griefer thief to harass people for hours on end because you lack the imagination or friends to do anything otherwise.

Hardcore does imply that there is depth and breadth to the game and its mechanics, it does imply that there are deep consequences for actions beyond Player A did X thing, so Player B is mad for Y reason and wants to rage and break Player A's toys.

Being "Hardcore" goes beyond killing other players and looting them, there's more too it than that.
Randomly butchering players is not hardcore, losing everything on death is hardcore, random killing is simply a sandbox choice and a choice that was promoted by the game.
Again deathmatching everyone is a sandbox choice.
Thievery was a griefing tool yes.
Depth and beadth is not hardcore. Yes harsh consequences for actions is a hardcore feature.

But nobody but you are saying killing other players and looting them is hardcore.

Everything thats hard I would view as hardcore. Safe zones is anti hardcore, changing keep gates from being opened by the inside was anti hardcore, guild priests is anti hardcore, making money in safety is anti hardcore, making the game easier to bypass time consuming training is anti hardcore, AI fighting for players is anti hardcore, having a mount with 3x you own HP is anti hardcore, etc.
 
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Eldrath

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Thievery was a griefing tool yes.

That´s ... wrong. Thievery was a tool to have low level risk inside of guarded zones. This is actually as important as having full loot. It also created a completely different playstyle within the sandbox making the world more diverse.

Thievery was used for griefing same as open PvP and full loot. I do hate it when people describe features they don´t personally like as griefing.

That being said the actual implentation, the bugs and variety were bad. Same as most other mechanics. The problem with Mo1 was never the ideas (except mount patch and TC) but the implementation due to SVs incompetence at the time.
 

Rankor

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While I do agree with you on a lot in your post I would like to know which subset you mean? Cause I think the majority of players that have a been active for years - both crafting and fighting minded folks - came here for full loot thus meaningful conflict and skill determining the outcome of battles - thus enabling sandbox play. They loved the interaction those two pillars of the game provided.

TC and the mount patch chipped away at those and undermined the original vision that people came here for in the first place.

Or, to take it in other terms: Do you think the players whose play-ability increased are a viable consumer base? Because the numbers don´t look that way.

When MO was announced, I was - like many others - most excited for the real sandbox experience: full loot, skill based combat combined with crafting, exploration, and world building via Guilds. My thoughts are that had TC, Butchery, and Alchemy been in-game from the beginning, those more interested in that portion of the sandbox would have balacned out those only looking for a fight; maybe then they would have worked better over time instead of feeling forced into the game. Looking back, I think the "only PvP" minded players perceived some of those adds as nerfs to their games. Yes, I know that a lot of the community enjoyed both but they were the loudest squeaky wheel.

Combat will always be the number one priority and I fully understand why. But since MO first came out, there have been other games offering the same type of combat, albeit with no type of risk vs reward system in play. I hope that MO2 stands out in the crowd once again.
 

Eldrath

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When MO was announced, I was - like many others - most excited for the real sandbox experience: full loot, skill based combat combined with crafting, exploration, and world building via Guilds. My thoughts are that had TC, Butchery, and Alchemy been in-game from the beginning, those more interested in that portion of the sandbox would have balacned out those only looking for a fight; maybe then they would have worked better over time instead of feeling forced into the game. Looking back, I think the "only PvP" minded players perceived some of those adds as nerfs to their games. Yes, I know that a lot of the community enjoyed both but they were the loudest squeaky wheel.

Combat will always be the number one priority and I fully understand why. But since MO first came out, there have been other games offering the same type of combat, albeit with no type of risk vs reward system in play. I hope that MO2 stands out in the crowd once again.

I look forward to the one-character per account set up. It will force more interaction between playstyles if the depth of non-combatant profession is kept. If the population had never dropped so low that every "fighter" had to make their own extractor I think that system would have stayed the same and got improved. Since everyone was forced into it you have people complaining about it that would never have touched it with a 10-foot pole if they had the choice of just buying everything.

I think we would do well to remember our similarities in what brought us here rather than continue the split into groups with agendas.

But don´t worry, I will still look to your salvation in game.
 
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ThaBadMan

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That´s ... wrong. Thievery was a tool to have low level risk inside of guarded zones. This is actually as important as having full loot. It also created a completely different playstyle within the sandbox making the world more diverse.

Thievery was used for griefing same as open PvP and full loot. I do hate it when people describe features they don´t personally like as griefing.

That being said the actual implentation, the bugs and variety were bad. Same as most other mechanics. The problem with Mo1 was never the ideas (except mount patch and TC) but the implementation due to SVs incompetence at the time.
Yes I am talking about its implementation and not the thought behind it.

I am all for having a good immersive thievery system, but the one in MO1 had no other purpose than trying to ruin peoples day, mechanic wise that is what it promoted.

It was very easy, risk free, with no consequences and no player interaction.
This is due to several issues combined.
 
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Rankor

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Yes I am talking about its implementation and not the thought behind it.

I am all for having a good immersive thievery system, but the one in MO1 had no other purpose than trying to ruin peoples day, mechanic wise that is what it promoted.

It was very easy, risk free, with no consequences and no player interaction.
This is due to several issues combined.
This is actually the issue with many of the systems added over time. Great ideas but with bad implementations. But when you add code on top of code on top of code, you just create a huge game of Jenga waiting for the wrong piece to be removed.
 

ThaBadMan

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This is actually the issue with many of the systems added over time. Great ideas but with bad implementations. But when you add code on top of code on top of code, you just create a huge game of Jenga waiting for the wrong piece to be removed.
Very true.
 

Jakkob

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I look forward to the one-character per account set up. It will force more interaction between playstyles if the depth of non-combatant profession is kept. If the population had never dropped so low that every "fighter" had to make their own extractor I think that system would have stayed the same and got improved. Since everyone was forced into it you have people complaining about it that would never have touched it with a 10-foot pole if they had the choice of just buying everything.

I think we would do well to remember our similarities in what brought us here rather than continue the split into groups with agendas.

But don´t worry, I will still look to your salvation in game.
It also means having to create multiple accounts just to be able to do anything meaning having to buy the game multiple times.
 

ThaBadMan

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What do think is meaningfull? How will having one character hinder you in archiving your goals?

Or to turn it around. How many characters did you need in Mortal Online 1 to be able to anything?
The problem here is having to be reliant on others you dont know will quit the game today, tomorrow or next week. You dont have consistency with the items you need, you also have to put your faith in strangers who might be out to scam you as so many MO1 players did regularly, quality of things you buy is questionable.

When self sufficient you dont have any problems, you have all you need and then some, you know quality is crisp, you are 100% scam free and you can sell you quality products to players needing it.

MMOs are very random games, you can never know 100% what other players will do. You can start out in a 100 man guild all active every day for 6 hours and suddenly be all alone since all 99 others quit within a week.

Myself I cant play long term with such unreliable item aquisition, being self sufficient means I have no trouble and no problems in the game. Makes life easier.
You needed 3 accounts to do most anything, 2 to do anything worthwhile. Myself I had 5, half combat oriented and half crafting oriented.
 

Eldrath

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The problem here is having to be reliant on others you dont know will quit the game today, tomorrow or next week. You dont have consistency with the items you need, you also have to put your faith in strangers who might be out to scam you as so many MO1 players did regularly, quality of things you buy is questionable.

When self sufficient you dont have any problems, you have all you need and then some, you know quality is crisp, you are 100% scam free and you can sell you quality products to players needing it.

MMOs are very random games, you can never know 100% what other players will do. You can start out in a 100 man guild all active every day for 6 hours and suddenly be all alone since all 99 others quit within a week.

Myself I cant play long term with such unreliable item aquisition, being self sufficient means I have no trouble and no problems in the game. Makes life easier.
You needed 3 accounts to do most anything, 2 to do anything worthwhile. Myself I had 5, half combat oriented and half crafting oriented.

I think this mixes up what is your choice based on your personality with how the game should be designed. I respect that you want to be self-sufficient, but there will be no player economy of any sort if everyone is. Players relying on each other is the basis of any economy. In terms of design you want different professions to appeal to different players. That was the original idea of Mortal Online 1 and I think it will work this time around.

The idea that you do everything yourself has also other implications. If you like doing dungeons, but actually spend 90% of your time mining, woodcutting, extracting, refining, hunting and fishing because you have to, you will demand for those activities to be easier, less time consuming and less complex. This will in turn lead to players who like those activities to either quit or do something else, because you made their choice pointless. This happened a lot in MO1.

I don´t think MMOs are random games at all. If anything they are very stable, compared to other games. If someone builds a community that falls apart that quickly I think they should learn from their mistakes. No one said that social interactions are easy.

The main problem with a player run economy is that you need tools to facilitate it and a population that can sustain it. Mortal lacked both of those for YEARS after launch. Well, it had a decent pop at one point, but no tools. This is why I strongly believe that we need a trade broker at persistent launch.

Anyhow I think you could do something meaningful with just one account. People spend hundreds of hours on a free-to-play account with not even 4 characters. That is the power of the sandbox. But providing the option to easily do everything yourself you actually kill the sandbox and economy.

That being said I don´t mind if someone like you buys 5 accounts in MO2 because they want producing everything themselves. I would only ask you to keep in mind that one of the 10 professions you go through to be selfsufficient, might be the only one another players wants to do all the time. That is why reducing complexity is a bad thing for a sandbox.
 

ThaBadMan

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I think this mixes up what is your choice based on your personality with how the game should be designed. I respect that you want to be self-sufficient, but there will be no player economy of any sort if everyone is. Players relying on each other is the basis of any economy. In terms of design you want different professions to appeal to different players. That was the original idea of Mortal Online 1 and I think it will work this time around.

The idea that you do everything yourself has also other implications. If you like doing dungeons, but actually spend 90% of your time mining, woodcutting, extracting, refining, hunting and fishing because you have to, you will demand for those activities to be easier, less time consuming and less complex. This will in turn lead to players who like those activities to either quit or do something else, because you made their choice pointless. This happened a lot in MO1.

I don´t think MMOs are random games at all. If anything they are very stable, compared to other games. If someone builds a community that falls apart that quickly I think they should learn from their mistakes. No one said that social interactions are easy.

The main problem with a player run economy is that you need tools to facilitate it and a population that can sustain it. Mortal lacked both of those for YEARS after launch. Well, it had a decent pop at one point, but no tools. This is why I strongly believe that we need a trade broker at persistent launch.

Anyhow I think you could do something meaningful with just one account. People spend hundreds of hours on a free-to-play account with not even 4 characters. That is the power of the sandbox. But providing the option to easily do everything yourself you actually kill the sandbox and economy.

That being said I don´t mind if someone like you buys 5 accounts in MO2 because they want producing everything themselves. I would only ask you to keep in mind that one of the 10 professions you go through to be selfsufficient, might be the only one another players wants to do all the time. That is why reducing complexity is a bad thing for a sandbox.
As far as I was aware of players wanting to be self sufficient didnt cry that every thing they did to support their playstyle took time, what most cried about in MO1 was changes made later on in the game affected the time it took to be self sufficient.
One was butchery, pre butchery you could make good money an hour that with one change was gone, now you needed a butcher to make any kind of good money. So standing at yet another work bench for 6 hours to make a small amount of money and resources was created, or you know farming and stocking up a bank which was very little money or resources and stand around for hours waiting for a butcher who had free time.

Now go over to gear, if I want full cronite gear in this or that rarer than usual armor, let me just say good luck to those wasted hours finding that crafter who had that armor set, your weapon of choice and cronite lore with available cronite.

Go on to pots, from farming them in dungeons and buying the worst ones from vendor and suddenly you needed a butcher who knew of a good potion and all them hours finding him available.

Now mounts, from simply taking one from a spawn with same clones to having to scout them for good stats and on to having to find special statted ones and breed them to gain better and better stats and then the hours to find a breeder who make your specialized mounts with good enough stats, GOOD LUCK!

Now on top of all this said craftsman needs to have the quality you seek and the price you would pay. Normally it was worse quality than if you did so yourself and the price always WAAAAAYYY too much to not lose even more hours to it.

After all that is there any wonder why people was mostly self sufficient and did the hours themselves or dual cliented to do multiple at once ?

I could go on and on and on with most features and mechanics in MO. But the point is players mostly did not cry that things besides timers took long but it was a decrease in effectiveness with every change with professions. The reason MO1 became a second job when it eliminated one QoL after another.
Yes placeholders are bad and all that, but whats worse is when every placeholder thats changed into the final result makes the game worse and more time consuming like a job you dont get paid from and thats boring as all hell.

I want to be self sufficient because I dont want to spend hours getting myself ready with random chance and rather put in the hours to do it myself and do it proper and up to my standard without having to fleece myself every time I need new gear.

Until MO2 proves it can keep a population playing actively for hours every day to support its economic style, I will not believe it can magically keep thousands of players consistently actively playing when MO1 was the direct opposite of what we hope MO2 to become.

So far during Alpha im leaning more toward MO1 than MO2 outcome, so imo atleast first year of MO we not gonna find good quality gear in a timely manner, with the bigger more isolated world it will be way worse than MO1 even in its lowest pop days.

I been here with both games starts and beginning development, and so far its going about the same with MO2 developing slightly faster.
So unless something big happens and changes it drastically or the graphics will make thousands play it for hours every day, I wait until I see proof until I change my views.
 

Eldrath

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snip

I been here with both games starts and beginning development, and so far its going about the same with MO2 developing slightly faster.
So unless something big happens and changes it drastically or the graphics will make thousands play it for hours every day, I wait until I see proof until I change my views.

TL;DR:
Deep professions are good, MO1 screwed players over, extraction was fine the way it was but got ruined because everyone felt entitled to be self sufficient even though you could always buy materials. Current development is much better compared to MO1. Trade tools are super important to have from the start.



I don´t know what all your examples are trying to archive - I was there for all of that and have done all of that. So have probably most of the people participating in this discussion.

You illustrate my point. You have choosen to be self-sufficient and because of the variety of professions that took a huge amount of time. Every time they added something to the game that time increased or decreased. Breeding for example decreased the amount of time you needed to spend to get a good mount MASSIVELY and ran tamers out of the game. People going into the wild, taming mounts, selling them or giving them to their guild was a big part of Mortals economy.

I think being self sufficient should take way too much time to be efficient. You can choose to do it but the game should not be designed to cater towards it.

People should do what they like and trade whatever they create to get whatever else someone produces. The problem is when you define everything that is not YOUR favourite activity as a chore the only logical choice is too make it as small as possible.

As a more practical example: Extraction in Mortal was about time and risk management. That is why timers were long and extraction machines were outside of guarded zones. The very best machines were in the lawless areas of cave camp and Gaul kor. The idea is that you are forced to be in a dangerous position for a period of time, vulnerable to attack. Long timers allowed you to be flexible in your time management. They cut down the time, so more people tended to stand in front of the machine fully loaded. Many did not even know you could move away while extracting. Then the call went out to remove timers completely.

In retrospection this was a terrible change based completely on the false idea of everyone being self sufficient. There were people who actually like the process of extraction because of the things I mentioned. Player could have bought materials from those, or invite them in their guild and profit from their expertise. Instead they choose to roll a slag hauler themselves, do it in the most brutish way possible and then demand the game to be changed to fit their choice.

One of SVs biggest fails was giving in to those demands. I get why they did it. Population was low and it´s always easier to give loud mouthed complainers what they want. The thing is that their definition of fun is not the same as for others players. Just because you don´t like how extraciton works, does not mean there is nobody who does. A sandbox thrives when you have different ways of having fun.

All that being said there was never a time in MO1 timeline when getting a stack of steel was a major hassle. Even high end materials were not that hard to get, especially later on. So running a slag hauler yourself was always optional.

Personally (having played the open beta of MO1 and the current alpha) I think this time around things are a lot more stable. There are fewer bugs, especially major ones and stuff moves along according to the roadmap. So I´m positive that any feature implemented will have a higher standard than MO1. What will make or break the economy is trading tools and good profession design.

Edit @ThaBadMan :
This discussion is getting too rant-like for me. I think I´ll take myself out of it for the time being. Just as with your guildmate Drac I don´t think we will ever see eye-to-eye when it comes to certain professions.
 
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Jakkob

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What do think is meaningfull? How will having one character hinder you in archiving your goals?

Or to turn it around. How many characters did you need in Mortal Online 1 to be able to anything?
Well personally I needed 8 characters and a couple free to plays to be able to do everything I needed, I still wasn't able to do everything I wanted but I wasn't going 3 p2p accounts deep.

I've heard that skillpoints will be different and we will have more, but the game will still need to up their character slots if I can't pvp and still be a trader/ do professions. No one should have to pay more than the already (expensive compared to most mmos) premium price
 

Eldrath

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Well personally I needed 8 characters and a couple free to plays to be able to do everything I needed, I still wasn't able to do everything I wanted but I wasn't going 3 p2p accounts deep.

I've heard that skillpoints will be different and we will have more, but the game will still need to up their character slots if I can't pvp and still be a trader/ do professions. No one should have to pay more than the already (expensive compared to most mmos) premium price

The stated plan is that you will have two skill point pools: One for fighting and one for professions. I suggest you also read the information on the homepage for crafting, since that has a major impact on the outcome as well. So you can be a fighter and have a peaceful profession.

Same as in MO1 the idea is still very much that you have to interact with other players to get everything you need. That is what is called an economy. It works for other games, so I´m fairly certain it can work here.
 
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Jakkob

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The stated plan is that you will have two skill point pools: One for fighting and one for professions. I suggest you also read the information on the homepage for crafting, since that has a major impact on the outcome as well. So you can be a fighter and have a peaceful profession.

Same as in MO1 the idea is still very much that you have to interact with other players to get everything you need. That is what is called an economy. It works for other games, so I´m fairly certain it can work here.
That's perfect then, a system like this will also deter inflated guild numbers which was definitely an issue especially with the early days of TC
 

ThaBadMan

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Fun active professions are good, deep professions are only good if theres a very good reason for it.

But you couldnt, thats the very reason MO got known as a dual client several accounts per player game.
When you cant get the materials you want or need in a timely manner not costing you over 10x a decent price then no you cant buy materials. Overspecialization is not good unless your game can guarrantee theres players of every specialization at all times available, which MO never could achieve not even in its highest pop days.

Current development is almost the same as MO1 except faster this time around. Remember Closed beta to release of MO1 was 1 year long.

I use maybe too much examples but thats due to experience of people wanting examples after a hefty long post, also I use it so people that havent experienced it like you or me can understand more what I mean, english is not my native language so I often get misunderstood.

NoNoJustNo, breeding increased times since unique animal spawns was made for breeding, pre that all you needed was tame a mount and you had the best mount of that mount category. And no I did not become self sufficient because it took time, I did it to firstly support my guild as I was its main crafter for a long time and second because the games economy even with massive amounts of dupes around could not function and supply needed materials and quality armor/weapons.

Being self sufficient in MO1 was not more time consuming than farming gold and looking for trade, being self sufficient meant I was ready with everything I needed at all times instead of being reliant on others and not be and thus not being able to play how I want when I want.
I have never said the game to cather to my need of being self sufficient, I am saying to have fun active professions where you play that profession and not stand staring at a boring timer as if ou where paid for it. A game is meant to be fun to play and not be boring ass chores that chase away its player base. If a game is not fun it will end up like MO1.

Again stop putting words in my mouth, but yes in a perfect game with a perfect balanced economy you could have MO1s profession system but since nothing is perfect its never gonna happen, when there are below 100 players in a game you cant have a player run economy. And no I dont find a real butchery system boring but dragging carcasses into town to stand still staring at a timer is the definition of boring chore, same with extraction. Now make it so you have to actively play to do them with a fun interactive "minigame"to simulate the real thing and it would be fine imo.

Nobody wanted timers in MO, from the beginning this was stated by most I interacted with which where hundreds if not thousands of players, but things where not as slow back then, you also had lower stacks and more output from the lower stacks. So you spent less time, got less resources but gained more materials than after early changes.

We all know SV wanted a slow boring chore game with huge timers everywhere and everyone behind their personal guardzone protected by AI guards making insane amounts of gold in total safety without interacting with anyone other than your guild, or else MO1 would not turn into that right ? Very fucking wrong there buddy...

Again if noone makes it, how can you buy it ?
And yes I know lazy players exists that like to watch movies,etc while not playing a game they are playing, some people wouldnt even put in hard work in a game where they dont have to do anything but sit there irl. Those people exist I know but why should a game company cater to that low percentage of humans in comparison to all those wanting to actively play the game and do the work to get to where they want to be ?

Again seriously where is the fun in staring at a timer not playing the game you should be playing ? I say dont cater to lazy shits but rather to players wanting to actively play your game and make it a living world and not a semi afk watching youtube/netflix game, dont you see this view you have here is a major reason MO1 died ? Why cater to 10 guys if 1000 gonna quit due to it ?
Yes SVs biggest fail was to listen to bad players whine that their not good enough, and SV catering to them and making the game easier, but to my knowledge no timer got taken out after it was implemented which is what was asked for years about timers, in the end after over 5 years of asking the asking changed from take it out to decrease it for gods sake.
For your information I am one of MOs longest extracters and probably top 10 in who extracted the most ore in its lifetime and I quit years ago. To make it more clear, I outdid the amount Ichorous and his guild could pump out alone. I enjoyed it but hated the timer, and still I pumped out more metals than 3 of the richest players at that time who all did the same ores as me.

Steel was easy to get yes but useless for competitive PvPers, high end metals was not available on the free market until we Quad took over GK and opened trade from Gabaria. Before that you mainly got high end metals from dead enemies who made it in guild and did not sell, how things happened until 90% of the server got so close that nuts where cupped in all hands, when guild hopping became status instead of a sign of a terrible rat player nobody wanted.
Even though steel was vastly overpriced during most of MOs lifetime, when I started getting into metal production for real I alone pushed the price down from 50-75g per 1k to 20g per 1k where it stayed for years until greed once again took hold and price jumped permanently up for the next years. Now creating enough steel every day to keep prices down that was time consuming but imo needed cause of human greed. Another reason a player run economy dont work.

Thats why you think that, if you did not play closed beta stages you dont know how the game progressed which is basically like MO2 again MO2 developing faster but same problems except tech wise.
The gameplay so far is exact same, started out slightly to slow, got increased then later got way slower and slower and slower, combat go from skill based and fast paced to gear based and slow paced. Game starting out hard and becomes easier and easier the further along we go. So far this is identical from MO1 early development and MO2 early development.

Thing is MO1 had more in your face bugs and technical issues but MO2 makes up for it by having a plethora of terrain bugs, tears and generally bad made terrain. Although live game breaking bugs are present for sure in MO2 but they are nothing while in Alpha.


The stated plan is that you will have two skill point pools: One for fighting and one for professions. I suggest you also read the information on the homepage for crafting, since that has a major impact on the outcome as well. So you can be a fighter and have a peaceful profession.

Same as in MO1 the idea is still very much that you have to interact with other players to get everything you need. That is what is called an economy. It works for other games, so I´m fairly certain it can work here.
This is proof SV learned MO1s mistake with professions being too specialized, 1 char per account proves this further. Its a horrible design UNLESS you KNOW 100% you will have the players to make it work.

MO is a sandbox MMORPG, player interaction and player run things is the desired outcome, but it wont work unless the game have pillars in place for it to work for the games lifetime. If your player run systems cant work with low population then you shouldnt have it because most probably you cant guarrantee there will be enough players present at all times for the games lifetime. Not with boring passive timers infront of material gain which is a must for most playstyles.
 
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Zbuciorn

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MO1 with its very specialized pushed players to have many accounts.

In the new game I rather see less restrictive systems.Mayby giving players more skill points would work?

Being prosperous crafter could be more based on your ability to find and securing access to good materials instead being limited to
players who can afford to run many accounts.
 
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barcode

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a functioning economy is a tricky thing to achieve. I really hope they get it together and can make it work but honestly I have my doubts SV is up to the task. a big part of it is going to be an efficient and worthwhile broker system, and from what seb had said they see no reason to change the existing one, which is disheartening.

on top of facilitating trade with the broker, there needs to be a reason to trade. Often times you will just end up trading with your enemies, who will use the items they bought against you. this in itself may not be too bad a thing but it will make high end gear/materials extremely rare on the market. i dont know that this is necessarily a bad thing either... high end materials should be rare and something like ogh should be quite rare indeed.

imo ore extraction timers should be drastically changed so basic extraction is very fast yet advanced extraction should retain a long timer. butchery needs a total revamp. gathering will be vastly changed with actual nodes to mine/chop that will disappear, hopefully it makes doing these tasks more exciting than just staring at your character swinging an axe.

-barcode
 

ThaBadMan

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May 28, 2020
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a functioning economy is a tricky thing to achieve. I really hope they get it together and can make it work but honestly I have my doubts SV is up to the task. a big part of it is going to be an efficient and worthwhile broker system, and from what seb had said they see no reason to change the existing one, which is disheartening.

on top of facilitating trade with the broker, there needs to be a reason to trade. Often times you will just end up trading with your enemies, who will use the items they bought against you. this in itself may not be too bad a thing but it will make high end gear/materials extremely rare on the market. i dont know that this is necessarily a bad thing either... high end materials should be rare and something like ogh should be quite rare indeed.

imo ore extraction timers should be drastically changed so basic extraction is very fast yet advanced extraction should retain a long timer. butchery needs a total revamp. gathering will be vastly changed with actual nodes to mine/chop that will disappear, hopefully it makes doing these tasks more exciting than just staring at your character swinging an axe.

-barcode
Exactly.
In order to have a population large enough to support a player driven economy you need the pillars that support the economy to be a fun and engaging activity and one that puts you actively out in the wild imo.
Thats where for the larger audience long timers are the opposite of all fun, engaging and active play.

Most systems like the broker is in need of a good QoL scrubbing to achieve a lasting population to hopefully make a player driven economy to work Id say.
 
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