Fixed In 5 Steps Or Less: Crafting

Mortalitas Immortalis

Active member
May 29, 2020
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The Peoples Republic of Talusia

The Subject: Crafting


This series of feedback posts are collectively meant to be easily digestible, 5 steps or less processes to fix the respective system of Mortal Online 2 being critiqued.

t;dr No complex powerpoint or video needed, ez <= 5 step plans to fix MO 2.

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The Steps


  1. Significantly increase the amount of experience per craft across all crafting skills.
  2. Consolidate the various Risar and Sarducaan crafting skills on the basis of category, i.e. make all hilts one book, all handles one book, 1H & 2H Swords one book, and so on.
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The Index

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Dargelar

New member
Nov 1, 2021
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(This post has been translated by a translator, so there may be errors in words or details)

A system that looked promising during beta testing turned out to be an ugly stub with poorly thought-out mechanics for the economy and gameplay. I support the developers' desire to make their game stand out, but I don't understand why they haven't noticed the problem and haven't tried to fix it for five years now.

Crafting issues:
- 90% of the resources mined in the game are simply junk for sale to vendors or used for unworkable solutions.
- Low recipe variability; using different resources and their combinations results in similar results with a +/- 10% difference, using the same resources.
- In a game with full loot, there's no niche for good cheap gear; there's a tier of crappy gear, average gear, and the best. The differences between them are simply enormous and uncompetitive.
- A small set of equipment stats leads to repetitive combinations.

Crafting suggestions:
- Expand the characteristics of resources used for crafting
- Add additional characteristics to crafted items, dividing characteristics into basic, primary, and secondary categories.
- Change the concept of evaluating the quality of crafted items to improve item quality through secondary characteristics.
- New settings for existing recipes.

Suggestion for new characteristics for equipment:
Bows: Resistance – affects the maximum shaking threshold when drawing a bow; Flexibility – affects the speed of drawing the bowstring.
Armor: Flexibility – affects the rate of stamina regeneration; the higher the parameter, the less the penalty; Convenience – affects the rate of mana regeneration; this parameter increases the weight threshold at which the mana regeneration penalty begins.
Weapons: Impact Potential – affects the probability of knocking down and knocking back with weapon attacks; Balance – affects the stamina consumption during an attack.

New characteristics for resources used in the weapons and equipment category: Elasticity, Density, and Workability.
Elasticity – affects: bows/armor – flexibility; weapons – balance.
Density – affects: bows – resistance; armor – comfort; weapons – striking potential.
Workability – bows/weapons – additionally affects strength requirement; armor – additionally affects weight.

What will we achieve with these changes, and how will they impact item quality? My proposal is to eliminate the significant linear increase in stats for crafted items' primary attributes.
T1 – variability with penalties to primary attributes
T2 – wide variability in settings, balancing primary attributes with bonuses to secondary attributes
T3 – top-end gear with flexible secondary attribute settings.

Below are not equipment builds, but rather the results obtained through resource rebalancing and without taking into account the uniqueness of recipes (although this is understandable, since recipes only affect primary attributes of items).

How does this look for armor (without taking into account the impact of defense rating in each category on primary attributes)?

Basic stats: weight, durability.
Primary stats: defense rating
Secondary stats: Mana Regen Free Weight, Stamina Regen Free Weight

T1 – readily available resources
Standard version of T1 armor – acceptable weight/durability, but primary stats are inferior to T2 (<85% T2).
Heavy version of T1 armor – due to its heaviness, primary stats are close to T2 (85%-100% T2).
Weak version of T1 armor – to achieve primary stats close to T2 (85%-100% T2), you will have to sacrifice up to 60-70% durability. The key is to avoid being naked in a dangerous moment.

T2 – rare resources and those that have been repeatedly processed (metals)
Standard version of T2 – the standard version of armor of a tier without the + and -.
Heavy version of T2 armor – due to its heaviness, secondary stats are gained.
Weak version of T2 armor – sacrifices durability for secondary stats. T2 Hard Armor – sacrifices secondary stats to reduce armor weight
T3 – Top-tier metals and resources from bosses
T3 Reliable Armor – higher primary stats than T2 (110%-115% of T2).
T3 Heavy Armor – sacrifices weight, but higher primary stats than T2 (>110% of T2).
T3 Light Armor – reduced weight with T2 defense
T3 Flexible Armor – good stamina regeneration with T2 defense
T3 Comfortable Armor – “good” mana regeneration with T2 defense

+ increased variability, and therefore increased relevance of a mountain of resources.
+ reduction of the huge difference in primary stats, replacing the quality of the bonus to сonvenience and expanded capabilities. Bringing beggars up to the average level.
+ Providing benefits through character leveling and stats, compensating for equipment shortcomings, much like the Alvarins exploit mobility by running around in their underwear. Players with advanced armor skills will also be able to take advantage of these advantages even without high-level armor.
+ Expanded build variability based on new items.
 

Dargelar

New member
Nov 1, 2021
20
3
3
Weapon-based example
Basic stats: Balance, durability, striking potential
Primary stats: Damage rating
Secondary stats: Weight, Strength requirements

T1 – readily available resources
Standard version of a T1 weapon – acceptable weight/durability, but primary stats are inferior to T2 (<85% of T2).
Unbalanced version of a T1 weapon – at the expense of increased stamina consumption, primary stats are close to T2 (85%-100% of T2).
Fragile versions of T1 weapons – to achieve basic stats close to T2 (85%-100% T2), you'll have to sacrifice up to 60-70% durability.
Strike potential won't be a crucial stat, more likely something to be sacrificed for others, but it will impact the uniqueness of gameplay with this weapon. It simply increases the chance to knock back or knock down an opponent when using appropriate moves.
This stat can also be triggered by previously ineffective attacks, such as a hilt strike, triggering a check and allowing you to knock down an opponent. Say, with a 5-10% chance at maximum values, making the move ineffective for regular weapons (without contributing to the stat).

T2 – rare resources and after repeated processing (metals)
Standard T2 – the standard version of armor of the tier without + and -.
Fragile version of T2 weapons – sacrifice up to 30-50% durability to reduce weight or strength requirements. The heavy version of a T2 weapon – we increase the weapon's strength requirements for better balance and striking power (nobody cares about durability).
The unbalanced version of a T2 weapon – we increase stamina consumption for better balance and striking power.


T3 – Top metals and resources from bosses
Similar to the armored version, using rare resources we eliminate penalties, gaining useful bonuses to primary and secondary stats. Or, if penalties are present, we "double" the effect of the received bonuses for the selected stat, going beyond the limits available to the T1 and T2 versions.

Shields
Basic Stats: Weight, Durability
Primary Stats: Defense Rating
Secondary Stats: Balance, Strength Requirements

Additional Rules for Shields
- When equipped with a shield, the Strength requirement is added to the weapon's Strength requirement. The shield drains some of the fighter's Strength, similar to using a two-handed weapon while mounted.
- When equipped with an unarmed shield, the player suffers a balance penalty based on the shield's class. An unbalanced shield in the off-hand shifts the character's balance and increases the chance of being knocked down.

T1 – Easily accessible resources
Standard version T1 – acceptable weight/durability, but the primary stats are inferior to T2 (<85% of T2).
Unbalanced version T1 – has good primary stats close to T2 (85%-100% of T2), but sacrifices balance – making us easier to push and knock down.
Fragile T1 version – to achieve basic stats close to T2 (85%-100% T2), you'll have to sacrifice up to 60-70% durability.

T2 – rare resources and after repeated processing (metals)
Standard T2 version – the standard version of the armor tier without the + and -.
Fragile T2 version – sacrifices up to 30-50% durability for better balance or strength requirements.
Robust T2 version – increases the strength requirements for shield use to reduce weight (this is a shield tailored to the character's arms, the weight of which is not felt).
Heavy shield versions are pointless, as there are shield classes for that.

T3 – Top metals and resources from bosses
Similar to the armor version, rare resources eliminate penalties, gaining useful bonuses to primary and secondary stats. Or, if there are penalties, we "double" the effect of received bonuses for the selected parameter and go beyond the limits available to T1 and T2 versions.

Bows
Basic stats: durability, flexibility
Primary stats: range
Secondary stats: resistance, strength requirements

Additional rules for bows.
- Bow draw is now the value the character must accumulate while drawing the bow.
- The number of "drawing points" gained depends on strength and is not counted by the Alvarin bonus.
- Interfering factors such as riding, running, and taking damage reduce the number of "drawing points" received by the player per tick.
- Taking damage may interrupt the bowstring draw, penalizing the character with a stamina penalty.
- Bow vibration stabilization begins only after the bowstring is drawn, not during the draw. (The bow has become an arcade weapon.)
- The bow is considered a fragile weapon; when receiving damage, slashing, or crushing to the arms, it takes 5-10x damage to the item's durability (a countermeasure against melee archers).

T1 – readily available resources
Standard version of T1 – acceptable flexibility/durability, but the main stats are inferior to T2 (<85% of T2 in the corresponding class).
The Tight T1 version has good primary stats close to T2 (85%-100% of T2 in the corresponding class), but the draw time is increased.

T2 - Rare resources and after repeated processing (metals)
Standard T2 - Standard version of armor of the tier without + and -.
Fragile T2 weapon version - sacrifices up to 30-50% durability to reduce strength requirements.
Heavy T2 version - increases weapon strength requirements for better flexibility.
Sturdy T2 bows - increase resistance for better flexibility. (Trades bow accuracy for rate of fire).

T3 - Top metals and resources from bosses
Rare resources eliminate penalties, gaining useful bonuses to primary and secondary stats. Or, if penalties are present, "double" the effect of received bonuses for the selected stat, going beyond the limits available to T1 and T2 versions.
 

Iloros

Active member
Dec 14, 2023
211
22
28
(This post has been translated by a translator, so there may be errors in words or details)

A system that looked promising during beta testing turned out to be an ugly stub with poorly thought-out mechanics for the economy and gameplay. I support the developers' desire to make their game stand out, but I don't understand why they haven't noticed the problem and haven't tried to fix it for five years now.

Crafting issues:
- 90% of the resources mined in the game are simply junk for sale to vendors or used for unworkable solutions.
- Low recipe variability; using different resources and their combinations results in similar results with a +/- 10% difference, using the same resources.
- In a game with full loot, there's no niche for good cheap gear; there's a tier of crappy gear, average gear, and the best. The differences between them are simply enormous and uncompetitive.
- A small set of equipment stats leads to repetitive combinations.

Crafting suggestions:
- Expand the characteristics of resources used for crafting
- Add additional characteristics to crafted items, dividing characteristics into basic, primary, and secondary categories.
- Change the concept of evaluating the quality of crafted items to improve item quality through secondary characteristics.
- New settings for existing recipes.

Suggestion for new characteristics for equipment:
Bows: Resistance – affects the maximum shaking threshold when drawing a bow; Flexibility – affects the speed of drawing the bowstring.
Armor: Flexibility – affects the rate of stamina regeneration; the higher the parameter, the less the penalty; Convenience – affects the rate of mana regeneration; this parameter increases the weight threshold at which the mana regeneration penalty begins.
Weapons: Impact Potential – affects the probability of knocking down and knocking back with weapon attacks; Balance – affects the stamina consumption during an attack.

New characteristics for resources used in the weapons and equipment category: Elasticity, Density, and Workability.
Elasticity – affects: bows/armor – flexibility; weapons – balance.
Density – affects: bows – resistance; armor – comfort; weapons – striking potential.
Workability – bows/weapons – additionally affects strength requirement; armor – additionally affects weight.

What will we achieve with these changes, and how will they impact item quality? My proposal is to eliminate the significant linear increase in stats for crafted items' primary attributes.
T1 – variability with penalties to primary attributes
T2 – wide variability in settings, balancing primary attributes with bonuses to secondary attributes
T3 – top-end gear with flexible secondary attribute settings.

Below are not equipment builds, but rather the results obtained through resource rebalancing and without taking into account the uniqueness of recipes (although this is understandable, since recipes only affect primary attributes of items).

How does this look for armor (without taking into account the impact of defense rating in each category on primary attributes)?

Basic stats: weight, durability.
Primary stats: defense rating
Secondary stats: Mana Regen Free Weight, Stamina Regen Free Weight

T1 – readily available resources
Standard version of T1 armor – acceptable weight/durability, but primary stats are inferior to T2 (<85% T2).
Heavy version of T1 armor – due to its heaviness, primary stats are close to T2 (85%-100% T2).
Weak version of T1 armor – to achieve primary stats close to T2 (85%-100% T2), you will have to sacrifice up to 60-70% durability. The key is to avoid being naked in a dangerous moment.

T2 – rare resources and those that have been repeatedly processed (metals)
Standard version of T2 – the standard version of armor of a tier without the + and -.
Heavy version of T2 armor – due to its heaviness, secondary stats are gained.
Weak version of T2 armor – sacrifices durability for secondary stats. T2 Hard Armor – sacrifices secondary stats to reduce armor weight
T3 – Top-tier metals and resources from bosses
T3 Reliable Armor – higher primary stats than T2 (110%-115% of T2).
T3 Heavy Armor – sacrifices weight, but higher primary stats than T2 (>110% of T2).
T3 Light Armor – reduced weight with T2 defense
T3 Flexible Armor – good stamina regeneration with T2 defense
T3 Comfortable Armor – “good” mana regeneration with T2 defense

+ increased variability, and therefore increased relevance of a mountain of resources.
+ reduction of the huge difference in primary stats, replacing the quality of the bonus to сonvenience and expanded capabilities. Bringing beggars up to the average level.
+ Providing benefits through character leveling and stats, compensating for equipment shortcomings, much like the Alvarins exploit mobility by running around in their underwear. Players with advanced armor skills will also be able to take advantage of these advantages even without high-level armor.
+ Expanded build variability based on new items.
Not only resources mate. 90% of the weapon heads are also straight up inferior to the best one.

The most stand out one is a 2h axe, kallardian 2h axe made out of lower tier materials LITERALLY HAS THE SAME STATS OR EVEN BETTER than some of the lower weight axes and axe abilities barely scale with weight.

So what we have is 10 axe head 1 of which is viable. Same goes for every otehr weapon too, the only weapons with multiple (usually just 2 or maxbe 3) viable heads are 2h swords and 2h hammers , the other weapons clearly have a superior head.

Poleaxe - Heavy poleaxe
Polelaword - Risar polesword (new executioner is cool and has better slash blunt but literally deals no pierce dmg)
Spear - Risar
1h club - we just got a huge powercreep in cudgel which literally has warclub stats and the best hitbox and range
2h axe - double kallardian, no contest
1h axe - risar
Dagger - risar
2h hammer - maul or warhammee (I donr believe in warhammer as a 2h hammer main but people keep using it) so 2 out of like 8 or 9
1h sword - risar

If they just normalizes the stats a bit and made those lighter heads better itd be great.

They made jadite lighter steel with less dura BUT SAME SCALING PWE WEIGHT

So for example

Kallardian double axe jadeite has same weight, same blunt, same slash as steel battleaxe a little less dura, it also has a way bigger hitbox

Its tier down in material but literally as good, it costs like 2x less.

We get the same result other way around, id you make a tungsteel battleaxe head, it will have same stats as steel double kallardian head, what???

so I mean there literally is no point in that head.

which literally means you should never use it over doub kall.

Can we please buff like all the heads? Please make Perfonator head, your most badass model and name, visibily rhe largest 2h hammer head, NOT HALF THE WEIGHT AND THIRD THE DAMAGE OF A MAUL???

Perfonatoe should have been 40 blunt 32 slash with bron ans like 8.5kg weight

Instead they make it same stats as starmace WHICH NOONE EVER USES LOL

35 12 5kg weight?

You can make a sword with 13 30 and 2kg weight 4 attack directions

You can make a 2h axe 4.75kg weight with 26 blunt 33 slash vs 5kg starmace/perfonator with 35 blunt 12 slash

Its so weak my dude....
 

Dargelar

New member
Nov 1, 2021
20
3
3
Not only resources mate. 90% of the weapon heads are also straight up inferior to the best one.

The most stand out one is a 2h axe, kallardian 2h axe made out of lower tier materials LITERALLY HAS THE SAME STATS OR EVEN BETTER than some of the lower weight axes and axe abilities barely scale with weight.


You can make a 2h axe 4.75kg weight with 26 blunt 33 slash vs 5kg starmace/perfonator with 35 blunt 12 slash

Its so weak my dude....
I understand, but I have to work from the simple to the complex. I wanted to flesh out a small, compact test with a clear idea. But you can see for yourself what this is turning into.

Diversifying and changing resources will eliminate a ton of problems (and possibly create new ones), but until then, there's no point in tweaking weapon recipes.
The game is over five years old, and we still only have one recipe for a shortbow and a longbow. Variations with other ingredients are simply ineffective.

Regarding weapon weights
- I would also like to see the game remove variants that are even theoretically impossible to use, or absurd ones like Thor's Hammer, which can't even be used in PVE.
- Each weapon recipe should have a reference weight that determines its attack speed (it can't be faster), and there should be a correlation whereby differences in weapon requirements and character strength translate into an attack speed bonus. If I'm a healthy Thursar, I'll hit Alvarin with a 1, 2, or 3 kg weight equally quickly, because for me, that's not weight. Instead of a melee bonus, let this bonus become a weapon weight reduction modifier when calculating attack.
 
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Iloros

Active member
Dec 14, 2023
211
22
28
I understand, but I have to work from the simple to the complex. I wanted to flesh out a small, compact test with a clear idea. But you can see for yourself what this is turning into.

Diversifying and changing resources will eliminate a ton of problems (and possibly create new ones), but until then, there's no point in tweaking weapon recipes.
The game is over five years old, and we still only have one recipe for a shortbow and a longbow. Variations with other ingredients are simply ineffective.

Regarding weapon weights
- I would also like to see the game remove variants that are even theoretically impossible to use, or absurd ones like Thor's Hammer, which can't even be used in PVE.
- Each weapon recipe should have a reference weight that determines its attack speed (it can't be faster), and there should be a correlation whereby differences in weapon requirements and character strength translate into an attack speed bonus. If I'm a healthy Thursar, I'll hit Alvarin with a 1, 2, or 3 kg weight equally quickly, because for me, that's not weight. Instead of a melee bonus, let this bonus become a weapon weight reduction modifier when calculating attack.
100% but resources are only 50% of the thing, if 90% of weapon heads also are bad, its as big of an issue. And its not anything complex mate, just normalize them like armor lmao. End of the day make them all within 10% who cares atp everyones using same 1 head anyway, why not at least add some visualy and minor gameplay variety, isntead of litearlly same exact wepaon type coz its blatantly better.

Ill be honest id rather they change heads than resrouces if i had to pick 1