Another magic + archery nerf combo alongside a buff to non Alvarin footfighters mostly. They will make magic do 5 damage per hit before nerf Alvarins.

[Iloros]

This will literally make everything but non Alvarin footies and all Alvarin builds because Alvarin is still OP worthless in solo small scale.

Magic defense primary will make all the spells that do below 40 damage, WHICH IS EVERY SPELL ALMOST irrelevant and unsustainable.

They made Oghmir archer completely unviable with these changes too.

They made all the hybrids weakee by buffing bandages, footies did NOT NEED BUFFS only Alvarins needed nerfs.

Oghmirs and Thursars got the wrong buffs, they are cool asf dont get me wrong, and I especially like bloodlust and defiance, but they are combat power buffs, neither needed combat power, they needed kill pressure on alvarins, they gain 0.

Alvarins will keep being OP until you either nerf their speed and stam or giga nerf their combat power, or you giga buff non alvarin combat power to a point nt where Alvarins cant do shit in melee and are reduced to a full rat class.

Overall i like the patch, but criticism is priority.

Just nerf Alvarins. Clade reworks are fine, but buffing bandages and adding an anti magic primary genuinely ruins all mage builds other than Sheevra.

And the bow nerfs ruin all the bow users other than alvarin one. Again the reason mages and archers are strong is because they jump on Alvarin and permakite you with superior speed and stam, not because their combat power is too high.

The issue with magic and archety also exists specifically in xv1 situations where a mage or an archer just statchecks you from range with no counterplay as footie holds on you meaning you cant fight back or 2 3 archers or mahes straight nuke you.

Counter reduce and parrying helps 1vx footies massively the game would be unplayable without those.

We need similar mechanics added vs magic and archery.

Raw damage nerfs and a massive one too isnt it man. All this does is make non Alvarin magic users including Human hybrids, fatmages oghmir fatmages, god forbid an Oghmir or a Thursar hybrid. It just destroys build variety for what? For the sake of NOT nerfing Sheevra? lol... Just nerf Alvarins already bro.

 

[pooternackle]

Game is dead and rotting so it doesn't really matter anymore, but out of curiosity, I read the into the vault. The archer nerf especially was hilarious, for exactly the reasons you highlight. Oghmir foot archer was viable because it could literally just stand still in heavy armor and clades and try to out dps its attackers. Yeah, this was bad gameplay, but at least it made foot archery viable on a non-alvarin clade. The nerf effectively kills oghmir foot archer without doing anything to address the much larger problem of alvarin foot archer which just perma kites for roughly equivalent damage numbers.

Just bizarre stuff, but again, who cares its over.

 

[Ibarruri]

Game is dead and rotting so it doesn't really matter anymore, but out of curiosity, I read the into the vault. The archer nerf especially was hilarious, for exactly the reasons you highlight. Oghmir foot archer was viable because it could literally just stand still in heavy armor and clades and try to out dps its attackers. Yeah, this was bad gameplay, but at least it made foot archery viable on a non-alvarin clade. The nerf effectively kills oghmir foot archer without doing anything to address the much larger problem of alvarin foot archer which just perma kites for roughly equivalent damage numbers.

Just bizarre stuff, but again, who cares its over.

Unfortunately, I warned years ago that this would happen. And yes, the game is gone. It’s all over.

 

[Iloros]

Game is dead and rotting so it doesn't really matter anymore, but out of curiosity, I read the into the vault. The archer nerf especially was hilarious, for exactly the reasons you highlight. Oghmir foot archer was viable because it could literally just stand still in heavy armor and clades and try to out dps its attackers. Yeah, this was bad gameplay, but at least it made foot archery viable on a non-alvarin clade. The nerf effectively kills oghmir foot archer without doing anything to address the much larger problem of alvarin foot archer which just perma kites for roughly equivalent damage numbers.

Just bizarre stuff, but again, who cares its over.

Well it is bizzarae stuff and you can see my points exactly, it's at least interesting, hell almost brings out morbid curiousity, shit is almost eerie how they nerf everything but the most broken class that's the reason their game is rotting.

It's like some weird on purpose self sabotage for mysterious reasons, you have to understand bro, by now they get that Alvarins are op and that they are the biggest issue, they even say so in the post AND THEN DONT NERF THEM?!!?

Oghmir archer also loses to Oghmir footie and Thursar footie and 50-50s a human footie, it also loses to some mages and loses to pet builds.
It only works as a metacounter to alvarin in a sense that Alvarin cant really kill it not that Oghmir will kill the Alvarin. So really its an alvarin buff that htey nerfed oghmir FA. whatever man

 

[Ibarruri]

Well it is bizzarae stuff and you can see my points exactly, it's at least interesting, hell almost brings out morbid curiousity, shit is almost eerie how they nerf everything but the most broken class that's the reason their game is rotting.

It's like some weird on purpose self sabotage for mysterious reasons, you have to understand bro, by now they get that Alvarins are op and that they are the biggest issue, they even say so in the post AND THEN DONT NERF THEM?!!?

Oghmir archer also loses to Oghmir footie and Thursar footie and 50-50s a human footie, it also loses to some mages and loses to pet builds.
It only works as a metacounter to alvarin in a sense that Alvarin cant really kill it not that Oghmir will kill the Alvarin. So really its an alvarin buff that htey nerfed oghmir FA. whatever man

No, the game isn't going down the drain because of that. If I had to list the top 10 things that killed the game, that wouldn't even make the cut. It’s literally irrelevant.
Debating trivial balance issues in a project that is already fundamentally ailing is like discussing a bald man's haircut. I remember seeing these kinds of debates 20 years ago, back when MO1 actually had a player base. Now, there’s no one left—just 20 guys running two accounts each. And it’s going to get much worse in a few months. The player count will hit zero before 2027.
Nobody cares about class balance anymore (which never really existed in MO anyway) because the game died for far deeper reasons.
That’s it. It doesn't really matter anymore. It’s all over.

 

[Iloros]

No, the game isn't going down the drain because of that. If I had to list the top 10 things that killed the game, that wouldn't even make the cut. It’s literally irrelevant.
Debating trivial balance issues in a project that is already fundamentally ailing is like discussing a bald man's haircut. I remember seeing these kinds of debates 20 years ago, back when MO1 actually had a player base. Now, there’s no one left—just 20 guys running two accounts each. And it’s going to get much worse in a few months. The player count will hit zero before 2027.
Nobody cares about class balance anymore (which never really existed in MO anyway) because the game died for far deeper reasons.
That’s it. It doesn't really matter anymore. It’s all over.

You are a clueless 100 years old weirdo with 0 arguments. The game is going down the drain because of that, among other things snd this one is near the top. You literally wont make any debatable claim backed by any theory or evidence you just speak gibberish atp. Everyone cares about balance and it impacts everyone. Every big pvp game is spamming balance patches, not by accident. Its the lowest effort high reward thing companies do and if your games state is horrible, theres more to yield from doing it.

You literally are brute forcing opinions in a conversation with no elaboration, that is how 9 year olds talk.

 

[Ibarruri]

You are a clueless 100 years old weirdo with 0 arguments. The game is going down the drain because of that, among other things snd this one is near the top. You literally wont make any debatable claim backed by any theory or evidence you just speak gibberish atp. Everyone cares about balance and it impacts everyone. Every big pvp game is spamming balance patches, not by accident. Its the lowest effort high reward thing companies do and if your games state is horrible, theres more to yield from doing it.

You literally are brute forcing opinions in a conversation with no elaboration, that is how 9 year olds talk.

Man... I’ve been voicing my arguments and opinions for 20 years. And believe me, I’m fully in the loop. Go look up my posts and read them; I’ve shared tons of opinions over the years. You simply harbor a prejudice against us old veterans—one rooted in inferiority complexes, insecurities, and a bit of stupidity.
It’s not that balance isn't important in itself... Listen, people were debating balance *15 years ago*. The game never had balance, and it never will. Especially not now. There’s no one left to care because, quite simply, there’s no community left to address. Honestly, I don't think you understand anything about this project—what the initial goal was or what actually built this community. The community didn't abandon StarVault because of balance issues, but for much deeper reasons. I could educate you and explain them all over again, but I’m not sure it’s worth the trouble. You’re just a little newbie stuck in the same loop the rest of us broke out of 18 years ago. So far, you haven't given me any reason to think otherwise. But I know the old-timers reading this know exactly what I’m talking about. You haven't got the faintest clue about the time—or the dedication—some of us poured into this. You literally know nothing. You’re like a kid who just showed up for the tutorial. But hey, whatever; I suppose it doesn't really matter anymore. I can't even take you seriously. It’s not worth the effort. How could I possibly try to force my opinions on you when you claim I’m not offering any? What you're saying makes no sense. but its ok. i not worried anymore.

 

[Iloros]

Man... I’ve been voicing my arguments and opinions for 20 years. And believe me, I’m fully in the loop. Go look up my posts and read them; I’ve shared tons of opinions over the years. You simply harbor a prejudice against us old veterans—one rooted in inferiority complexes, insecurities, and a bit of stupidity.
It’s not that balance isn't important in itself... Listen, people were debating balance *15 years ago*. The game never had balance, and it never will. Especially not now. There’s no one left to care because, quite simply, there’s no community left to address. Honestly, I don't think you understand anything about this project—what the initial goal was or what actually built this community. The community didn't abandon StarVault because of balance issues, but for much deeper reasons. I could educate you and explain them all over again, but I’m not sure it’s worth the trouble. You’re just a little newbie stuck in the same loop the rest of us broke out of 18 years ago. So far, you haven't given me any reason to think otherwise. But I know the old-timers reading this know exactly what I’m talking about. You haven't got the faintest clue about the time—or the dedication—some of us poured into this. You literally know nothing. You’re like a kid who just showed up for the tutorial. But hey, whatever; I suppose it doesn't really matter anymore. I can't even take you seriously. It’s not worth the effort. How could I possibly try to force my opinions on you when you claim I’m not offering any? What you're saying makes no sense. but its ok. i not worried anymore.

Great bro, you aren't doing any arguments now, so the conversation is quite literally impossible and childish due to you limiting it.
If you don't wanna put any thought or effort into comments maybe stop commenting, you sound bizzare.

I am a way better player in every metric than yourself, you could be playing for a thousand years, you are still limited.

You made 0 arguments, gave 0 theory and 0 evidence for ANY of your claims. You could say anything like that, it's of no value at all.

 

[Jackdstripper]

So much doom and gloom. Yea Sarducca is kinda empty and boring and the latest mounted meta is lame af, but lets not forget that some big games have launched recently ( wardogs, aion 2) and WoW Forever has triggered heavy nostalgia in many.

It was always going to be a struggle for MO to retain players right now.

Having said that, these patches also arent helping. I have to agree with Iloros for once that this makes little sense. Nerfing mages? What? And the bandage thing is a buff for kiting Vheelas? ....baffling decisions.

 

[Iloros]

So much doom and gloom. Yea Sarducca is kinda empty and boring and the latest mounted meta is lame af, but lets not forget that some big games have launched recently ( wardogs, aion 2) and WoW Forever has triggered heavy nostalgia in many.

It was always going to be a struggle for MO to retain players right now.

Having said that, these patches also arent helping. I have to agree with Iloros for once that this makes little sense. Nerfing mages? What? And the bandage thing is a buff for kiting Vheelas? ....baffling decisions.

They refuse to nerf the clade alvarin so they nerf all the classes they do good at except foitie.

Veela footie Alvarin IS THE SINGLE MOST POPULAR BUILD IN THE GAME WITH NO WEAKNESSES and they are nerfing everything but that.

It's actually nuts. Many mo2 players dont understand math, but all the anti magic stuff you can combine now will make any build with even 20 psyche immortal to mages , and the guys with 70-90 psyche (VEELAS) might aswell get healed by magic.

Mages already cant possibly kill someone with ward+ANY consumable even a 3.0 pot.


A bandage buff + magic defense buff + non Alvarin footie buff? Fatmages and hybrids, all of them are completely done for, maybe fatmages can just healbot in zvz thats it, sheevra is still unkillable but they wont be able to kill you either now because magic will literally be reduced to nothingness.

The biggest part is 3 flat reduction, it majes corruot do 0 dmg, it makes ward op because it reduces si much magic damage so any spell that does below 40 will be pathetic.

You'll see there wont be a single mage pvp vid after this patch unless its healing in zvz. I am not even a mage I just care for balance.


SV.... Just nerf Alvarins you wont die doing it, mages and archers as a class are weak compared to footies if anything.

 

[Emdash]

https://i.gifer.com/4BOa.gif

 

[Iloros]

https://i.gifer.com/4BOa.gif

?

 

[ElPerro]

Looks like their analytics told them Oghmir FA and mages were too OP and veela footies were underpowered.

 

[pooternackle]

Looks like their analytics told them Oghmir FA and mages were too OP and veela footies were underpowered.

Their analytics must have alerted them to an incident where a veela was actually killed by an Oghmir longbow, which naturally demanded their immediate intervention to prevent that kind of thing from ever happening again.

 

[Iloros]

Looks like their analytics told them Oghmir FA and mages were too OP and veela footies were underpowered.

It's obvious analytics told them Alvarin is OP they even specify it and then giga buff Thursar Oghmir Human, the clade reworks spoiled in the Into the Vault arsnt even 20% of total clade changes, from what im hearing they are GIGA BUFFING Thursars and Oghmirs and buffing Humans heavily.

However they did refuse to nerf Alvarin yet nerfed mages and archers and I prpmise you that was not analytics but feedback of a footie dominated community.

Make no mistake though, every single Alvarin build will become way weaker in relation to non Alvarins next patch, might even be enough to balance them first try.

Thursars are confirmed 1. getting bloodlust (the new clade spoiled) buffed to be way higher scaling 2. reworking relentless (new clade) 3
getting a speed bonus clade gift 4. getting battlecry warcry buffs 5. potentially getting health buffs.

This will put them easily into alvarin tier strength wise. You will be able to run solo Thursar dungeon and be a monster.

Alvarins might be balanced, alongaide Thursar Oghmir footies.

Humans, non alvarib mages in general and non alvarin foot archers in general might be in huge trouble. Like Thursar and Oghmir footies will mog non Alvarin non footies to oblivion.

will have to eait and see though.

 

[Emdash]

Their analytics must have alerted them to an incident where a veela was actually killed by an Oghmir longbow, which naturally demanded their immediate intervention to prevent that kind of thing from ever happening again.

lol, I wouldn't go in on someone with a 125~ longbow, thur or ogh, without some crazy ass armor on. I dunno if any of you guys ever caught a spread shot buuut.

I'm staying away from... Double Kalls, Sledge+, and long bows. Which is good, it's balanced, on that level at least.

I agree w/ Iloros in that Ogh Long bow is an easy counter, but the counter is like... don't fuck with it haha. I still believe that they should 'make everything OP.'

It's still crazy they will let mages be un-interruptable but they are making it even harder to fire a bow. I obv am not playing atm, but even getting tagged with an arrow while you are shooting a bow can fuck up your shot, and that was before.

 

[Iloros]

lol, I wouldn't go in on someone with a 125~ longbow, thur or ogh, without some crazy ass armor on. I dunno if any of you guys ever caught a spread shot buuut.

I'm staying away from... Double Kalls, Sledge+, and long bows. Which is good, it's balanced, on that level at least.

I agree w/ Iloros in that Ogh Long bow is an easy counter, but the counter is like... don't fuck with it haha. I still believe that they should 'make everything OP.'

It's still crazy they will let mages be un-interruptable but they are making it even harder to fire a bow. I obv am not playing atm, but even getting tagged with an arrow while you are shooting a bow can fuck up your shot, and that was before.

the counter is kill it with ease with a stronger statcheck build with no coutnerplay because its slower too lmao, Thursar destroys Oghmir with longbow as soon as they meet with 0 coutnerplay, so does Oghmir footfighter.

 

[Emdash]

the counter is kill it with ease with a stronger statcheck build with no coutnerplay because its slower too lmao, Thursar destroys Oghmir with longbow as soon as they meet with 0 coutnerplay, so does Oghmir footfighter.

ye... that's what I was saying more or less. it's a good example of speed working on some level but power working on another. That is close to 'balance.'

But it's funny how dudes like fartbox can make up in depth suggestions about how to balance the speed disparity, but really they could just edit alvarin's stam. They are just soooo stammy given how their clades and everything work, too. Dex needs to give less stam and con / str more.

Then they should just make break points on your stam bar where speed does in fact go more toward normalization, so once you hard commit, you can't just dip at the end. And in some way, a really good veela could perma- kite and whittle someone down by hovering above that breakpoint, but it would take a lot of skill, and if they messed up...

Mage is a different animal. They really fucked up the ability to balance mage with what they allowed mages to do, along with sheev speed / low weight classes giving so much int. But again if you nuke dex stam and make it more str and con, they get punished, too. They will still be DUMB tho, but they will take a nerf.

Magic needs a ground up rework. Melee is bad in a lot o ways (been saying this since day1, and I know some of you dudes disagree,) but the theory of hits, directional block etc... makes sense. The only thing i don't understand is why is it easier to defend against an attack than to land one? That is a recipe for failure imo. That is the big flaw.

 

[Iloros]

ye... that's what I was saying more or less. it's a good example of speed working on some level but power working on another. That is close to 'balance.'

But it's funny how dudes like fartbox can make up in depth suggestions about how to balance the speed disparity, but really they could just edit alvarin's stam. They are just soooo stammy given how their clades and everything work, too. Dex needs to give less stam and con / str more.

Then they should just make break points on your stam bar where speed does in fact go more toward normalization, so once you hard commit, you can't just dip at the end. And in some way, a really good veela could perma- kite and whittle someone down by hovering above that breakpoint, but it would take a lot of skill, and if they messed up...

Mage is a different animal. They really fucked up the ability to balance mage with what they allowed mages to do, along with sheev speed / low weight classes giving so much int. But again if you nuke dex stam and make it more str and con, they get punished, too. They will still be DUMB tho, but they will take a nerf.

Magic needs a ground up rework. Melee is bad in a lot o ways (been saying this since day1, and I know some of you dudes disagree,) but the theory of hits, directional block etc... makes sense. The only thing i don't understand is why is it easier to defend against an attack than to land one? That is a recipe for failure imo. That is the big flaw.

I agree with the last part especially.

Top tier player genuinely parrying 99% if melee incoming damage is not balancable.

If you look at other games attack hit 50-50 at worst. Here if Im against Sieraburatta, he is genuinely parrying 96-98% of my attacks. Which meana 99% of my dps is lost (extra % added because I gotta feint which is lower dps or use lighter abilities)

Which means to balance ttk in meele vs meele and melee vs everyone else, you need divine intervention because I can do genuine 400 pre mitigation dps, but only do like 4 pre mitigation dps to a top tier duelist.

So me versus Human fatmage in melee, no matter their armor unless divinium looks something like this:

normal overhead > 2x breaking blows = dead sub 10 seconds

Vs a top tier duelist its

5-10 mins of back and forth where 1 in 20 attacks connect 0 abilities landed cleanly because they are too easy to parry

 

[Jackdstripper]

ye... that's what I was saying more or less. it's a good example of speed working on some level but power working on another. That is close to 'balance.'

But it's funny how dudes like fartbox can make up in depth suggestions about how to balance the speed disparity, but really they could just edit alvarin's stam. They are just soooo stammy given how their clades and everything work, too. Dex needs to give less stam and con / str more.

Then they should just make break points on your stam bar where speed does in fact go more toward normalization, so once you hard commit, you can't just dip at the end. And in some way, a really good veela could perma- kite and whittle someone down by hovering above that breakpoint, but it would take a lot of skill, and if they messed up...

Mage is a different animal. They really fucked up the ability to balance mage with what they allowed mages to do, along with sheev speed / low weight classes giving so much int. But again if you nuke dex stam and make it more str and con, they get punished, too. They will still be DUMB tho, but they will take a nerf.

Magic needs a ground up rework. Melee is bad in a lot o ways (been saying this since day1, and I know some of you dudes disagree,) but the theory of hits, directional block etc... makes sense. The only thing i don't understand is why is it easier to defend against an attack than to land one? That is a recipe for failure imo. That is the big flaw.

The reason why parrying was made easier and easier (wider and wider angles) is because of the fundamental netcode problem MO has. When 2 people have a significant ping difference blocking (which is a reactive skill. Where you first have to see the animation) becomes super janky and unreliable. This always allowed, in the past, super aggressive playstyles (that abused latency) to be far more effective than defensive playstyles. Parrying, for many was simply shit.

The only way to allow the majority of players to have a reliable and consistent parrying experince was to make the angles ridiculously wide. this, of course, allowed good players parry almost everything.

And THEN, since all of a sudden everyone could parry everything and ttk got super long, they had to add abilities to reintroduce some easy damage again.

So again, the problem is very fundamental to how the single server/hit detection works, and not easy to fix. So far all they have found is workarounds.