Pure Mage VS Pure Footie

Midas

Active member
Feb 25, 2022
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Currently there is a large disparity between PURE Mage player (INT based damage) and Pure footies (STR based damage)


The Disparity is the gap of dmg Between melee AND ranged combat.

A pure strength build gains BOTH melee and ranged damage availability based off of Strength both MELEE and RANGED damage is increased by a LARGE amount due to the strength stat alone.

Comparing that to a pure intelligence build.

Intelligence gains OK damage for RANGED only , you could argue by saying "what about dex mages?!" to which i would say that is not a pure mage , that's a hybrid.
(yes i said OK damage because a mage can be hit for well over 140 damage by melee , there's no need to get into the "Well you cant block ecumenical" argument a mage cant block while casting either.)


My solution to fix this disparity would be to making a SECONDARY skill and 2 SPELLs which has the ECUMENICAL MAGIC SCHOOL as its parent and are in the ECUMENICAL spell category.

Requiring you to have 100 ecumenical Skill to begin leveling and to train it to 100.
Requiring Unarmed Brawling skill as parent as well.

(This Removes the necessity for a character that has no use for strength to be forced to take is for low damage melee weapons , Allowing them to do melee dmg based off of INT/PSYCH). (must not use dexterity as damage amplification)

2 spells which would be in the spell book when purchased off the NPC , this is important because we want everyone to be able to farm as a pure mage a be able to feel they have fit the role of mage as they see it. (this is one of the reasons people want staff magic so badly and i think would be similar but based off maces)
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Spell #1
-User casts Spell on self (ONLY SELFCAST)
-Spell Presents as Duration buff Similar to that of Magic Reflect (Cannot be removed by purify) , every time a player swings and connects with either a hit or a parry a small -amount of mana is used Mana is gained off a successful riposte and has possibility to weakspot (ONLY WHEN RIPOSTE)
-Spell increase melee damage based off of a calculation of INT/PSY/pierce/blunt
-Spell Has moderate to high damage as it will need to have 100 in skill to be fully efficient similar to Mounted Magery and mounted combat.
-should use ecumenical reagents that are on the higher end of cost like Cuprum and Coal.

It is my belief that this spell will allow people who wish to play with a pure mage character fantasy able to do so without having to develop the STAFF MAGIC school at this time and WILL deliver more fluid gameplay to those mages who wish to be able to Utilize combat maneuvering which is currently only the case while in combat mode resulting in pure mages who are also able to utilize the 10% movement speed buff from this skill.

Currently a hybrid mage has to arm and rearm weapon to cast effectively having to stay out of combat mode while trying to kite and cast spells. you will often see mages arm a dagger just to get the extra movement speed which is counter intuitive and makes mage combat feel "Clunky". with the recent improvement to walking while casting I believe this would go a LONG way to improve player experience.

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Spell #2
-User Casts Spell On Self (ONLY SELFCAST)
-Spell Presents as Duration buff Similar to that of magic Reflect (Cannot be removed by purify) , every time a player makes a successful parry a small amount of mana is restored. IF a player successfully parries a RIPOSTE the damage is mitigated to the casting player and a small to moderate percentage of that Melee Damage is reflected back to the enemy. based off of INT/PSY/Blocking Skill
-Spell Mitigates Melee Damage similar to a conventional shield however its use is mana based and drains mana while held the same as a normal shield would to stamina.
-Spell needs to be reliant on unarmed blocking /Blocking /Ecumenical skill parent.
-Should use higher end reagents to cast.

It is my belief that this will make for a more fluid combat scenario in all situations and increase the fluidity for PURE MAGE combat drastically. It is based off Risk/Reward as a mage with not enough mana regeneration due to high armor weight would fail to use this properly. therefore a mage has to have a high level of risk to use this spell efficiently and will most likely be used as a last resort instead of being forced to pull out a dagger or noob sword which does nothing for a PURE MAGE.

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Rahz

Member
Jul 19, 2022
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The fact is using magic is equivalent to tab targeting, where as melee requires more SKILL.
Oh come on. Using melee against a mage requires no skill at all. Melee against melee, you got a duel but i really can't stand this debate anymore. 140dmg from behind is skillfull gameplay? 2 shotting pure casters from outside their reach with a heavily armored melee build is skill? It just isn't so stop patting yourself on the back. If a dexmage kills your footfighter, you deserved it and lost because you got outplayed
 

Midas

Active member
Feb 25, 2022
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The fact is using magic is equivalent to tab targeting, where as melee requires more SKILL.
this is not constructive feedback and does not lend itself to articulate feedback. you hafto also keep in mind to do this appropriatly a mage would no longer be able to equip an actual shield and that these spells would hafto be used in THEE closest settings for combat , regardless the mage is still at a disadvantage compared to someone who is specced into full melee damage. the use of these spells would be highly dependent on SKILL alone to use.
 

[BB]sirgoodnight

New member
Jan 28, 2022
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Is not only that a full footsoldier with steel armor and steel weapon cost around 150g while mage full set and regent cost almost 10 gold


that why I idea about armor layer system
 
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2Op4Scrubs

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Sep 11, 2021
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Is not only that a full footsoldier with steel armor and steel weapon cost around 150g while mage full set and regent cost almost 10 gold


that why I idea about armor layer system
You are comparing steel armor to full grain rugged garments. When you should be comparing malorum ff set to a 10g mage set.
A high class mage set easily out cost a FFs in steel. Were talking about 1g per scail, for ganoid. And more for blood silk. So your argument is irrelevant.
Also All FFs get the most op skill in the game, Archery. That does tremendous damage, and faster than any mage spell off comparable damage.
It now cost about 3 silver to do one outburst 46 damage, at max int, compared to a 75cup long bow arrow that hits for 100. With absolutely no skill investment.
G fkin G
 
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[BB]sirgoodnight

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Jan 28, 2022
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You are comparing steel armor to full grain rugged garments. When you should be comparing malorum ff set to a 10g mage set.

A high class mage set easily out cost a FFs in steel. Were talking about 1g per scail, for ganoid. And more for blood silk. So your argument is irrelevant.

Also All FFs get the most op skill in the game, Archery. That does tremendous damage, and faster than any mage spell off comparable damage.

It now cost about 3 silver to do one outburst 46 damage, at max int, compared to a 75cup long bow arrow that hits for 100. With absolutely no skill investment.

G fkin G


Well your are correct ofc about longbow they actually hurt if u have skill invested in them well squad of longbow can destroy people easily from distance
 

Highlander

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Oct 27, 2021
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its all about combat speed / gear / weapons. to many variables. e.g. a full geared thursar without a bow will die in 30 sec against a naked mage, or a mage will always die to a veela ff
 
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Gnidex

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Feb 2, 2022
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Bows should never have been handled by strength, dex should govern bows fully and you'd suddenly get 1 stat per "playstyle". Int for mages, str for footies and dex for archers.
The fact that the best footie is also the best archer is pure stupidity.
 

Zbuciorn

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Jun 3, 2020
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Thank you for this post.
The balance footie/mage is very important for future of the game.
I am not really good at numbers and game mechanics and I do not like magic in games in general but it is very interesting to read all the ideas players have.
 

Zbuciorn

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Jun 3, 2020
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Bows should never have been handled by strength, dex should govern bows fully and you'd suddenly get 1 stat per "playstyle". Int for mages, str for footies and dex for archers.
The fact that the best footie is also the best archer is pure stupidity.
I am playing thursar and I would be fine if we are not the best at bows. compering to more dex oriented races.I do not like using them and I am constantly being ask to carry a bow by my teamates:)
 

Midas

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Feb 25, 2022
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The idea here is to provide meaningfull fluid and skillfull counterplay. No build should be trash compared to another and no build should just get folded compared to another. the implementation of elementalism is still in the works and so far seem to be doing good for large scale group pvp However this is where it stops. right now we need mages to be able to 1v1 this has been the issue the whole time yet it keeps getting glossed over. a pure mage CANNOT farm bandits or even zombies for that matter efficiently its pretty simple you run out of mana and are forced into used a melee weapon and investing points into strength , after a fulmination and a tlash the enemy mob is in your face , you gunna stand there and try to "conentrate" through it to get your casts off? no. can you move and cast? slightly but npc mobs dont care they dont stam out and they arent afraid to be hit by a spell. these changes would be a balance for mages in both PVP and PVE allowing mages to cast some spells and then once confronted with their melee foe they can block and hit back. regardless its still not optimal but definitly in the right direction. in a skill based game when both players are decent it should NEVER be a onesided fight if nothing else and both players are equally good skill wise it should be a draw where both parties stop chasing eachother because they cant kill eachother. right now this is not the case. the only clade able to kite is the veela/sheevra clade wich lends itself well to a hybrid class weilding a dagger (not a pure mage). its my belief that the spells listed here be put into Ecumenical so that new players have access to these spells aswell straight out of haven its pure utility and allows for mana regen and the ability for a caster to stay farming or fighting for prolonged periods of time if they successfully use the spells provided. Last but not least this is the reason people want staff magic/monk spells BUT its important that every mage gets these spells and i think we should start looking at the ecumenical school differently then we currently do.

Ecumenical school - the basic generic mage that has a little bit of magic from every LEGAL non rare school. currently has what should be considerd elemental(tlash)/mentalism(mindblast)/spiritism(heals/Purify).

Spiritism school - should be a focus on spiritism magic (put heal/purify in here aswell)

Necromancy school - Ilegal school and should not be in ecumenical spell listing (corrupt seems necro to me and should be in the necro school not in ecumenical)

Elementalism - currently in the works and am looking forward to see the summoning spells in the last iteration.
 

Jatix

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2020
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My issue is that regardless of if you are mage or FF, you can only experience half the game and updates. Sv wastes their time on yet another magic school? Well too bad you play foot fighter. The only update you got is dying to even more aids spells. And if they ever actually do a good update for fighters, sucks to be a mage player. Game is too limiting, people need more characters.
 

Midas

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Feb 25, 2022
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My issue is that regardless of if you are mage or FF, you can only experience half the game and updates. Sv wastes their time on yet another magic school? Well too bad you play foot fighter. The only update you got is dying to even more aids spells. And if they ever actually do a good update for fighters, sucks to be a mage player. Game is too limiting, people need more characters.
this is the main concern that these spells would adress. ALOT of mages want STAFF MAGIC for the simple fact that they expect to be able to stay competitive when it comes to melee damage because it is inevitable that they will hafto fight in close proximity. this option would allow you too use unarmed brawling with the combination of the spells to do dmg based off inteligence , im not saying that staff magic should never come to MO2 but this would be the main reason why people want it so badly IMO. these spells would be the representatives to what we could possibly expect staff magic/monk?! martial skill to do. and ecumenical be the bag of tricks that every mage should have it should be included in ecumenical and when staff magic/monk martial skill comes to the game it would be a more focused version. Imagine not having to be a veela to kite and be able to stand your ground as a last stand as any race in the game.
 

Midas

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Feb 25, 2022
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its all about combat speed / gear / weapons. to many variables. e.g. a full geared thursar without a bow will die in 30 sec against a naked mage, or a mage will always die to a veela ff
Technicly a Naked thursar with 130 strength doesnt need armor to fight a pure mage. But i digress this is not even on topic. the topic is the difference in stats between melee and ranged ability. Check out the first post for better information to base your response/comment/constructive feedback please.
 

2Op4Scrubs

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Sep 11, 2021
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Mages are meant to be support classes. It's a group oriented class. It is not supposed to stand toe to toe with melee.
Is that why armor does not block mage damage? If Magic wasnt so dog shit, and had actual "Support spells" (Roots, slows, fears, you know crowed control.) besides just damaging and healing, A foot fighter would never be able to kill a mage.
 
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Midas

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Feb 25, 2022
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Mages are meant to be support classes. It's a group oriented class. It is not supposed to stand toe to toe with melee.
Mages as a support class is not really a viable option. you can see this in data gathered by other games , generally people don't want to be "support" because being "support" is not as fun as being a class which is able to compete 1v1. you can find this data and literature through games like league of legends and World of warcraft , i understand that MO2 is neither of these titles and am glad HOWEVER. the Data remains and is empirical knowledge gathered by much larger sources and demographics. As a player your not really privilege to the collected data by these companies however it is VERRY noticeable through things like League of legends preferred QUE where support players get instant games because of the lack of people wanting to play support roles it is even more noticeable through World of warcraft and there godawful instanced dungeon system where "healers/support" classes are generally 10-20% of the population and not because those people want to be support classes but because they like the class fantasy or their view of what that style of character should be. bottom line is removing the idea of a "support" role in this community in itself would improve the game experience for a large percentage of players.

All that being said. the changes and spells I am proposing would not improve the mage class in a way that would put them at par with that of melee strength classes in melee combat, it is generally an overall improvement however.

for instance.

a mage with these spells would still be at unequal footing toe to toe with a pure strength melee fighter as they cannot wear armor , that's where the risk vs reward mechanic comes in. even if a mage had these spells in order to use them a mage wearing NO armor would only be able to use these spells effectively would have to be toe to toe in melee range which is the last place they would really want to be anyway. the spells only work when character and player skill are utilized fully.

all that being said the game would be much easier to balance as well. IF this change would to be implemented you might even see a reason to lower damage on ecumenical spells and maybe even provide the changes needed to make it so ecumenical spells could be treated the same way as elementalism has been brought to the community with a defensive use of armor vs magic.

These spells are the literal use of Counterplay mechanics/skill and are conducive to competitive play.
 
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