Oghmir nerf suggestions

Iloros

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Dec 14, 2023
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Pipe 30 second cooldown - 60 seconds.

Beer belly 10 thirst - 5 thirst

Max con reduced by 5

Max str reduced by 5

Shields scale with size
 

pooternackle

Active member
Mar 21, 2021
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They can’t run around nerfing stat caps. Some players roll oghmir for the 123 strength to use max longbows. A -5 strength nerf would completely bust the build and require them to reroll.
 

Iloros

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Dec 14, 2023
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They can’t run around nerfing stat caps. Some players roll oghmir for the 123 strength to use max longbows. A -5 strength nerf would completely bust the build and require them to reroll.
Yes they can. By your logic they cannot nerf anything because someone is running the build for that reason. That is what nerfs are about LOL. Just make a new bow, is this the first game with concept of balance that you have ever played?
 

pooternackle

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Mar 21, 2021
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Yes they can. By your logic they cannot nerf anything because someone is running the build for that reason. That is what nerfs are about LOL. Just make a new bow, is this the first game with concept of balance that you have ever played?

Name another game that gatekeeps items behind a certain attribute cap, and then nerfs that cap making it impossible to use those items you built the character to use. You won't be able to.

If you want to nerf Oghmir damage, increase the damage reduction from being short and/or increase the damage bonus from being tall. Either that or do a blanket nerf on strength damage bonuses. Another option could be to just get rid of their damage bonus clade Oghmirs have.
 

Iloros

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Dec 14, 2023
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Name another game that gatekeeps items behind a certain attribute cap, and then nerfs that cap making it impossible to use those items you built the character to use. You won't be able to.

If you want to nerf Oghmir damage, increase the damage reduction from being short and/or increase the damage bonus from being tall. Either that or do a blanket nerf on strength damage bonuses. Another option could be to just get rid of their damage bonus clade Oghmirs have.
What kind of argument is that? Stats are always nerfed in buffed in every game I played. And you are just naming arbitrary stuff. I don't even know how to respond. "Name another game that nerfs an item that has been in the game by addint a stamina penalty when an item hits it, I bet you you cant! Therefore towershield stam on equipment hit change is bad". Its just a silly argument mate.

Name another game that gatekeeps items behind a certain attribute cap, and then nerfs that cap making it impossible to use those items you built the character to use. You won't be able to.

If you want to nerf Oghmir damage, increase the damage reduction from being short and/or increase the damage bonus from being tall. Either that or do a blanket nerf on strength damage bonuses. Another option could be to just get rid of their damage bonus clade Oghmirs have.
Also many games do that I am 100% positively sure of it. "What games gatekeep items behind stats - literally every medieval MMO has str requirement, and often strenghts of races get adjusted. Its not even a concept of "nono" in balance, you just made it up, the most random reason ever not to nerf Oghmirs lol.
 

pooternackle

Active member
Mar 21, 2021
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Also many games do that I am 100% positively sure of it. "What games gatekeep items behind stats - literally every medieval MMO has str requirement, and often strenghts of races get adjusted. It’s not even a concept of "nono" in balance, you just made it up, the most random reason ever not to nerf Oghmirs lol.
Name one then. If every game does it, name one.

This is such a weird discussion. Why are you fixated on reducing attribute caps? I agree oghmir need to be nerfed. They can be nerfed much harder, more meaningfully, and without entirely bricking an account through other means.
 

Iloros

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Dec 14, 2023
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Name one then. If every game does it, name one.

This is such a weird discussion. Why are you fixated on reducing attribute caps? I agree oghmir need to be nerfed. They can be nerfed much harder, more meaningfully, and without entirely bricking an account through other means.
It is a weird discussion because you cling to a weird point. Just agree and move on. Literally noone thinks what you think. You ignored half of my points and repeated yourself, it's completely arbitrary, your position, literally no reasoning behind it. It's vague and incoherent. If you want to make a syllogism about why stats on characters should not be nerfed, please do.

We are overfocusing on a small issue you randomly brought up, even though we both agree that the class needs nerfs.
 

Rhias

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
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It is a weird discussion because you cling to a weird point. Just agree and move on. Literally noone thinks what you think. You ignored half of my points and repeated yourself, it's completely arbitrary, your position, literally no reasoning behind it. It's vague and incoherent. If you want to make a syllogism about why stats on characters should not be nerfed, please do.

We are overfocusing on a small issue you randomly brought up, even though we both agree that the class needs nerfs.

I agree with him.
If I rolled an Oghmir for the reason that they can pull the strongest STR bows of all races or because I want to play a certain heavy weapon e. g. a blunt lance and suddenly that race is no longer the strongest in game or unable to use that lance?
Boy, I would be so pissed.

I would be equally pissed if Veela's were suddenly no longer the fastest race and I've build that character for a max speed build.

I really hurts for those "max" builds, where you choose that race for the sole reason that they are the best at one specific thing, and suddenly another races becomes the new best race at that thing...
 
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Iloros

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Dec 14, 2023
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I agree with him.
If I rolled an Oghmir for the reason that they can pull the strongest STR bows of all races or because I want to play a certain heavy weapon e. g. a blunt lance and suddenly that race is no longer the strongest in game or unable to use that lance?
Boy, I would be so pissed.

I would be equally pissed if Veela's were suddenly no longer the fastest race and I've build that character for a max speed build.
Thats literally saying "if my race was strong and it was nerfed, I'd be pissed" idc buddy LOL. 5 str decrease means your bows do like 3-4% less dmg, deal with it. Your towershields will double in weight. Your damage will fall down, they have to do something, and in the process someone will be pissed. In this game weapons arent some exclusive thing, you can always adjust it to your current str, and it never made sense that Oghmirs had better bows than Thursars anyways, due to size.
 

Rhias

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May 28, 2020
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Thats literally saying "if my race was strong and it was nerfed, I'd be pissed" idc buddy LOL. 5 str decrease means your bows do like 3-4% less dmg, deal with it. Your towershields will double in weight. Your damage will fall down, they have to do something, and in the process someone will be pissed. In this game weapons arent some exclusive thing, you can always adjust it to your current str, and it never made sense that Oghmirs had better bows than Thursars anyways, due to size.
"if my race was strong and it was nerfed, I'd be pissed"
No, it's "Don't take away from a race whatever it is best in. You can nerf the rest."

You build a mounted character to aim to us the strongest blunt lance.
Claw head Tindremic Messing Lance with Spongewood handle. Takes ~122 str. Now decrease your STR stat cap by 5 points. You loose both messing and tindremic messing. So the next best blunt material would be Steel. That's a damage nerf of about 20%.
You could have picked instead a race with a lower STR cap and more dex to be more agile in your mounted build. But instead you decided on taking the less mobility for more damage. And now you take away the more damage and you're like: I would have never created that character without X because it only gives disadvantages to my build.
(Was just an example. I don't play a MC Oghmir or Oghmir at all.)

I'd be pissed if my race gets nerfed in a way that it's no longer No. 1 in that field, while it was a No. 1 before.
Such a massive change would be only acceptable if it came with a free race reroll.

I totally agree that Oghmirs shouldn't be the highest STR race. Balanced would be if they were highest CON but only medium STR, while Thursars are highest STR and only medium CON.
However, SV fucked that up at release and people build their characters around it. It would be a shame to take away such a defining trait and destroying existing builds.

There are other ways to nerf them. Take away some total attribute points so they are no longer able to max all tree stats: str, dex and con and let the players decide if the want the highest life or keep the max str.
 
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Iloros

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Dec 14, 2023
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"if my race was strong and it was nerfed, I'd be pissed"
No, it's "Don't take away from a race whatever it is best in. You can nerf the rest."

You build a mounted character to aim to us the strongest blunt lance.
Claw head Tindremic Messing Lance with Spongewood handle. Takes ~122 str. Now decrease your STR stat cap by 5 points. You loose both messing and tindremic messing. So the next best blunt material would be Steel. That's a damage nerf of about 20%.
You could have picked instead a race with a lower STR cap and more dex to be more agile in your mounted build. But instead you decided on taking the less mobility for more damage. And now you take away the more damage and you're like: I would have never created that character without X because it only gives disadvantages to my build.
(Was just an example. I don't play a MC Oghmir or Oghmir at all.)

I'd be pissed if my race gets nerfed in a way that it's no longer No. 1 in that field, while it was a No. 1 before.
Such a massive change would be only acceptable if it came with a free race reroll.

I totally agree that Oghmirs shouldn't be the highest STR race. Balanced would be if they were highest CON but only medium STR, while Thursars are highest STR and only medium CON.
However, SV fucked that up at release and people build their characters around it. It would be a shame to take away such a defining trait and destroying existing builds.

There are other ways to nerf them. Take away some total attribute points so they are no longer able to max all tree stats: str, dex and con and let the players decide if the want the highest life or keep the max str.
I disagree. Your point has no real value, as people can be pissed about anything. And no, 5 str nerf would not be a big deal, and even if it made Oghmirs worse at lancing, that is needed for balance. If class is overstat and best in multiple categories, you have to nerf some. I simply do not see how people getting upset over a nerf makes it unjustifiable. That is what nerf is for, noone will go "yippi my build was nerfed". Sure if you guys are so adamant over such a minor thing, reduce their con by 10 then. They would still be the tankiest, would not lose any items they currently wield. But I think 5 str/5 con is much better. As theh really do not deserve best lances/bows or anything like that while also being the tankiest by far
 

ESGOAT

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Dec 1, 2023
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I don't think oghmirs need a nerf yet, tower shields absolutely do, but a big reason oghmirs are op is because tower shields are op, and oghmirs biggest gimmick is that they wear the heaviest armor. Oghmirs already have access to their whole kit (heaviest armor + longbows) the only new content on the horizon that an oghmir FF will use is weapon skills. Weapon skills will probably benefit thursars way more because of their higher damage bonus, which could indirectly nerf oghmirs if now a thursar can easily crack their shell. Staff magic if it is a magic/melee skill could be a buff to human paladin builds and another indirect nerf for oghmir FF's as they really dont have any points left over for psyche. Alvarins biggest gimmick is that they are shiny and the new lighting changes with ue5 made them meta again.

I'd say just keep trying to balance tower shields and then wait for the incoming content which other races get more use out of before nerfing oghmirs and maybe having to re-buff them again in a month or two.
 
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Iloros

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Dec 14, 2023
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I don't think oghmirs need a nerf yet, tower shields absolutely do, but a big reason oghmirs are op is because tower shields are op, and oghmirs biggest gimmick is that they wear the heaviest armor. Oghmirs already have access to their whole kit (heaviest armor + longbows) the only new content on the horizon that an oghmir FF will use is weapon skills. Weapon skills will probably benefit thursars way more because of their higher damage bonus, which could indirectly nerf oghmirs if now a thursar can easily crack their shell. Staff magic if it is a magic/melee skill could be a buff to human paladin builds and another indirect nerf for oghmir FF's as they really dont have any points left over for psyche. Alvarins biggest gimmick is that they are shiny and the new lighting changes with ue5 made them meta again.

I'd say just keep trying to balance tower shields and then wait for the incoming content which other races get more use out of before nerfing oghmirs and maybe having to re-buff them again in a month or two.
For proof Oghmirs need a nerf, check out my older forum post "Current state of footfighting balance - a focus on Thursars and Oghmirs"