I recently made a thread in the feedback section of the forums that talked about the standing system and how cool would be to add an "alive report system", In this thread i'd like to summarize some of the current problematics regarding the standing system, what i've seen being discussed in these forums and my proposal for what the law system in myrland could be. Standing system Thread
First of all i'd like to mention that i see an alarming amount of opinions from players in these forums vouching for adding more punishment for the murderers, from startloss to jails and such and i'd like to give my perspective about it.
The reality of Mortal.
Mortal is a sandbox full loot pvp game, theres a lot of space for players to interact with eachother. A lot of the actual game content is based in player interaction, the clashing of different playstyles fueled by PVP and PVE contest.
The fact that Mortal feels like a "free" environment its only because of the game's design, where theres cities scattered around the world, each with its own NPC law and its a somewhat minimalist concept, to make the NPC law work locally.
So player interaction has been the strongest piece of content the game counts with, it's what keeps the wheel spinning.
Current law system in myrland.
I am going to mention what i understand is the logic behind the current system.
Basically you get a standing loss if you (A) murder someone thats blue, resurrects in a priest and reports you (lose standing on the faction town the player resurrects and (B) by being seen by a guard while being criminal.
The only way (that i know of) to get standing back is by doing parcel runs. So basically theres an exchange of efforts. For the criminals that want to access towns and retore their standing with a faction have to travel from one city to another as many times as they see fit.
This exchange of efforts could be explained like this.
When someone murders a blue player then loses standing, and if that player wants to keep visiting that town it has to have 0 or positive standing with that faction, meaning that this player is "forced" by the circumstances to do parcel runs.
What are parcel runs besides timesink punishment mechanic?
Well its a way to populate the game, instead of making people AFK for burning MCs or AFK macro for statloss or be AFK in jail they have to travel and populate the world and the roads to keep up with their standing.
This is not particularly bad because this "punishment" (cuz it is), makes the world more alive instead of just promoting AFK mechanics. Now the risk/reward and efficiency of such activity could be discussed a lot but its somewhat on the right track, SV is starting to understand the punishment of players need to be capitalized in playing time and not in AFK timers.
Still, parcel runs shouldn't be the only way to restore standing and players should be able to do an extensive list of things to contribute to their faction.
Punishment for criminal actions.
Theres this general idea that for the detriment of murderers "law" should punish them with being unable to play.
Some suggest startloss which would require for players to "stat up" on death and the consequences of such mechanic would be to invest time as a punishment by re-training.
Some suggest murdercounts to be a thing, to have to wait X" amount of hours to absolve your sins and be able to keep playing.
Today i've seen someone suggesting jailtime for criminal actions like "some servers from UO used to do".
I mean these kind punishments are arbitrary rules for privating players to interact in certain way. Whats wrong with them? The very fact that a gamestyle is privated to play by taking certain actions in game.
This doesn't mean players shouldn't have any consequences for murdering another player, but that kind of punishment should be a strong NO in mortal and ill elaborate why.
Types of player interaction.
We could summarize player interaction in 3 general categories.
1.Player versus environment PVE and cooperativism.
2.Player versus player (concensual) PVPc.
3.Player versus player (non concensual) PVPnc.
1.The solo or cooperative nature of player vs environment, the hunt and collecting of materials and assets for personal and group progression, crafting trading and such.
2.The concensual fighting of players, generally by looking for pvp and/or the contest of content (environment).
3.The non-concensual fighting of players, when one player or group of players attack another player or group without agreement generally (but not exclusively) for taking advantage (looting).
Player interaction
Now that i have mentioned some of the key parts for understanding mortal's universe we can all agree that player interaction in this game is one of the upmost essential pieces of content, the freedom of choise, free will, players criteria, group or personal codes of coduct are some of the most important elements.
Player behavior should be encouraged and not crippled by mechanics, there shouldn't be hardbrake mechanics to private people from exercizing their free will when versatility of gamestyles is way more valuable and healthy for the game rather than having closed and unforgiving systems that limit player behavior but this doesn't mean there shouldn't be any NPC laws or structures.
The understanding
Understanding player interaction has the value it does should make us understand aswell the game needs to be growing around it and supporting it. But how??
It's easy, by giving players the tools and resources to keep doing it. But what are we talking about??
Basically let players use their resources to interact with other players, make law function in hand of players but not with automated punishment systems but by encouraging people to be part of the system, to work for it.
People should be able to understand and capitalize their charming nature, their charisma, their fame, knowledge of the game for getting away from non concensual pvp for example. Some murderers won't ever listen, others will stop and some may even help you if the right words are pronnounced. I see a lot of people wanting to relay in punishment mechanics cuz they are unaware they can exercize their social skills.
Most of the time the lack of awareness leads people to bad scenarios, AFK miners get their horses killed cuz they ain't aware or they are just too close to town, next to a road, etc. This is what i mean when i say player criteria, some will grow their criteria by understanding the "why" this kind of situation happened. Some will understand that gathering granum by the side of a road is a risky move and others wont and demand hard punishments.
If you are a citizen of whatever city, then fight for your city and be rewarded with peace and advantages" (that should exist). If you are a southern bandit beware of your criminal actions and pay the bills (parcel runs) or be a street fighter, live like a bum in batki streets, perhaps build a house to live the criminal dream.
The suggestion
Instead of promoting players to "let go" and die to give murdercounts. Encourage players to work for their fate, to grow criteria and awareness, to cultivate dialogue, bartering and more personal skills, true assets that don't need to be leveled in your character, make them understand that they can't relay on the world's law for seeking the justice they deserve.
My suggestion that was originally posted in the Standing system Thread basically stands for replacing the ress and report mechanic with an "alive report system" ment for players to be able to report criminal actions while being alive.
The way this would work is that for players that are alive and witness a criminal actions within certain range and they manage to go back into town they could talk to an NPC and choose to report these criminal activities by having an impact on the criminal's standing and hopefully (exploit free) rewards.
Why an alive system, well to encourage people to stay alive and fight for their life and justice, the same way a criminal would have to farm standing (alive) to access a faction's town. I believe the reason a criminal shouldn't be able to enter a town should be determined by other players and their actions and choices (besides guards witnessing criminal actions aswell).
The consequences of such system would be that people could and should work for their law system to be effective, by being able to witness a crime and report it conflict around towns will tend to go further away instead of gate fighting, some people might even go naked to witness criminal actions and go back to report them, it would be up for the criminals to silence this person before it reaches town, and by silence i don't only mean murdering.
My point of view is that there should be no criminality where theres no eyes to witness. This should bring justice locally to the wilderness. I believe in the diegetic nature of the game, i believe in boosting player's behavior with tools and i'd like to see more of that instead of automated mechanics that mimic themepark games.
First of all i'd like to mention that i see an alarming amount of opinions from players in these forums vouching for adding more punishment for the murderers, from startloss to jails and such and i'd like to give my perspective about it.
The reality of Mortal.
Mortal is a sandbox full loot pvp game, theres a lot of space for players to interact with eachother. A lot of the actual game content is based in player interaction, the clashing of different playstyles fueled by PVP and PVE contest.
The fact that Mortal feels like a "free" environment its only because of the game's design, where theres cities scattered around the world, each with its own NPC law and its a somewhat minimalist concept, to make the NPC law work locally.
So player interaction has been the strongest piece of content the game counts with, it's what keeps the wheel spinning.
Current law system in myrland.
I am going to mention what i understand is the logic behind the current system.
Basically you get a standing loss if you (A) murder someone thats blue, resurrects in a priest and reports you (lose standing on the faction town the player resurrects and (B) by being seen by a guard while being criminal.
The only way (that i know of) to get standing back is by doing parcel runs. So basically theres an exchange of efforts. For the criminals that want to access towns and retore their standing with a faction have to travel from one city to another as many times as they see fit.
This exchange of efforts could be explained like this.
When someone murders a blue player then loses standing, and if that player wants to keep visiting that town it has to have 0 or positive standing with that faction, meaning that this player is "forced" by the circumstances to do parcel runs.
What are parcel runs besides timesink punishment mechanic?
Well its a way to populate the game, instead of making people AFK for burning MCs or AFK macro for statloss or be AFK in jail they have to travel and populate the world and the roads to keep up with their standing.
This is not particularly bad because this "punishment" (cuz it is), makes the world more alive instead of just promoting AFK mechanics. Now the risk/reward and efficiency of such activity could be discussed a lot but its somewhat on the right track, SV is starting to understand the punishment of players need to be capitalized in playing time and not in AFK timers.
Still, parcel runs shouldn't be the only way to restore standing and players should be able to do an extensive list of things to contribute to their faction.
Punishment for criminal actions.
Theres this general idea that for the detriment of murderers "law" should punish them with being unable to play.
Some suggest startloss which would require for players to "stat up" on death and the consequences of such mechanic would be to invest time as a punishment by re-training.
Some suggest murdercounts to be a thing, to have to wait X" amount of hours to absolve your sins and be able to keep playing.
Today i've seen someone suggesting jailtime for criminal actions like "some servers from UO used to do".
I mean these kind punishments are arbitrary rules for privating players to interact in certain way. Whats wrong with them? The very fact that a gamestyle is privated to play by taking certain actions in game.
This doesn't mean players shouldn't have any consequences for murdering another player, but that kind of punishment should be a strong NO in mortal and ill elaborate why.
Types of player interaction.
We could summarize player interaction in 3 general categories.
1.Player versus environment PVE and cooperativism.
2.Player versus player (concensual) PVPc.
3.Player versus player (non concensual) PVPnc.
1.The solo or cooperative nature of player vs environment, the hunt and collecting of materials and assets for personal and group progression, crafting trading and such.
2.The concensual fighting of players, generally by looking for pvp and/or the contest of content (environment).
3.The non-concensual fighting of players, when one player or group of players attack another player or group without agreement generally (but not exclusively) for taking advantage (looting).
Player interaction
Now that i have mentioned some of the key parts for understanding mortal's universe we can all agree that player interaction in this game is one of the upmost essential pieces of content, the freedom of choise, free will, players criteria, group or personal codes of coduct are some of the most important elements.
Player behavior should be encouraged and not crippled by mechanics, there shouldn't be hardbrake mechanics to private people from exercizing their free will when versatility of gamestyles is way more valuable and healthy for the game rather than having closed and unforgiving systems that limit player behavior but this doesn't mean there shouldn't be any NPC laws or structures.
The understanding
Understanding player interaction has the value it does should make us understand aswell the game needs to be growing around it and supporting it. But how??
It's easy, by giving players the tools and resources to keep doing it. But what are we talking about??
Basically let players use their resources to interact with other players, make law function in hand of players but not with automated punishment systems but by encouraging people to be part of the system, to work for it.
People should be able to understand and capitalize their charming nature, their charisma, their fame, knowledge of the game for getting away from non concensual pvp for example. Some murderers won't ever listen, others will stop and some may even help you if the right words are pronnounced. I see a lot of people wanting to relay in punishment mechanics cuz they are unaware they can exercize their social skills.
Most of the time the lack of awareness leads people to bad scenarios, AFK miners get their horses killed cuz they ain't aware or they are just too close to town, next to a road, etc. This is what i mean when i say player criteria, some will grow their criteria by understanding the "why" this kind of situation happened. Some will understand that gathering granum by the side of a road is a risky move and others wont and demand hard punishments.
If you are a citizen of whatever city, then fight for your city and be rewarded with peace and advantages" (that should exist). If you are a southern bandit beware of your criminal actions and pay the bills (parcel runs) or be a street fighter, live like a bum in batki streets, perhaps build a house to live the criminal dream.
The suggestion
Instead of promoting players to "let go" and die to give murdercounts. Encourage players to work for their fate, to grow criteria and awareness, to cultivate dialogue, bartering and more personal skills, true assets that don't need to be leveled in your character, make them understand that they can't relay on the world's law for seeking the justice they deserve.
My suggestion that was originally posted in the Standing system Thread basically stands for replacing the ress and report mechanic with an "alive report system" ment for players to be able to report criminal actions while being alive.
The way this would work is that for players that are alive and witness a criminal actions within certain range and they manage to go back into town they could talk to an NPC and choose to report these criminal activities by having an impact on the criminal's standing and hopefully (exploit free) rewards.
Why an alive system, well to encourage people to stay alive and fight for their life and justice, the same way a criminal would have to farm standing (alive) to access a faction's town. I believe the reason a criminal shouldn't be able to enter a town should be determined by other players and their actions and choices (besides guards witnessing criminal actions aswell).
The consequences of such system would be that people could and should work for their law system to be effective, by being able to witness a crime and report it conflict around towns will tend to go further away instead of gate fighting, some people might even go naked to witness criminal actions and go back to report them, it would be up for the criminals to silence this person before it reaches town, and by silence i don't only mean murdering.
My point of view is that there should be no criminality where theres no eyes to witness. This should bring justice locally to the wilderness. I believe in the diegetic nature of the game, i believe in boosting player's behavior with tools and i'd like to see more of that instead of automated mechanics that mimic themepark games.
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