Why Democratic Design is Killing MO2

[Sally]

Alvarins still need to be able to die. Nerfing healing to where you need 2 minutes to reset would reaquire massive balance and pve changes across the board and it would still not fix alvarin issue entirely.

Archer Alvarins (which is basically footie alvarins) would dominate if there was no healing however if we both nerf Alvatins and healinh now we are talking. Archery is not weak against armor you are always naked. Alvarins do 30s through steel with normal hits and then up to 50 with armor pierce and then add weakspot and abilities into it and they 4 shot people in steel you again would not know you play naked and are broke.

I am not saying healing does not need nerfs you are confused. I am saying that Alvarin clade needs direct nerfs even if you nerf healing becauuse they would still be unkillable avoid xv1 while always getting you in a xv1 themselves. They can still win meele by pure luck weakspot armor pierce they have just 10% less HP and 15% less dmg than Thursars.

You cannot have a class that can just decide to dip whenever they want to also ttk is low asf for healing to get that gutted withoue raw hp buffs. So if we ever nerf healing we need to add in scaling buffs to all health modifiers such as height con weight. They need to give 1.25-1.5x more with height giving 2x more because its weakest stat.

Yes, and where they die is in their decision to leave combat. If they leave too late, they die. If they are surprise attacked, they die. They are physically weaker, and have less health. That is the trade off, that is where they die easier.

Yes, you can have a race that "decides to dip". Why are you arbitrarily saying that shouldn't be a thing in a game with run speed differences? It is like arbitrarily saying "you can't have a race that just has more health".. Why? Because you don't like it?

It adds dynamism to the game when each race has different strengths; those strengths are blown out of proportion because mobility benefits most from instant healing/resetting.

 

[Emdash]

They really need to just look at statistics, understanding all the mechanics of why a character or a weapon or a spell is op is too hard often and especially hard to prove to a 100%, what we can do easily tho is see what overall population is using, then see what top tier population is using, and basing balance on % pick rate and if you can somehow get the data on win rate, win rate too. Maybe listen to a few well argued feedback which even I don't do many of because it's super hard to explain all the mechanics and nail it to perfection, there has only been a few things I could explain mechanics of well enough to where I would say "yeah this needs a buff/nerf" Thursars, pre masteries abilities, adamant buff being one good mechanistic explanation but it was way harder than just saying "yeah alvarins are literally 80% pop" just look at data that's what other games do.

Btw what you are looking for as a developer isnt even perfect balance at the highest level, what you are really looking at is similar, respectable overall pick rates, with no win rate outliers/ no endgame outliers.
Meaning you want every single character weapon stat to be picked to a respectable amount, with a few outleirs being tolerated for some time until they become too problematic.
Lets say Oghmirs are 20% pick rate Thursars 20 humans 30 alvarins 30 in average play (vast majority) and then its Oghmirs 20 Thursars 20 Humans 20 Alvarins 40 in pro play (those are just examples) you dont need to NERF alvarins but if you are gonna do any change sure go for them dont hit them hard but at that point youve balanced your game to a reasonable extend and nobody can say balancei s bad because everything is picked to a reasonable amount at all play even if there is a clear better choice at higher play, but it doesnt ruin the game, should be adressed not high prio.

But what we have now is Avlarins being vast majority in both average and pro play, especially if we exclude large scale where any build can work really, and seeing that Alvarins are literally everything that higher level of play guys play solo and small scale, and vast majority of average players too. Thats hotfix worthy alone, variety is goal of balance not perfect balance at perfect play that is impossible you just want enough variety to where you didnt literally make models clades and shit for it to not even work lmao especially in an mmorpg. Variety is very much needed, build guides, tier lists etc. some of the most watched vids in mmorpgs, 0 of those in this one these days lmao, everyone just plays alvarin.


Its the variety you are chasing with balnace not anything else unless a class passes a clear high level play treshold where its clearly way way way better in high level of play, or even way way way worse. You just need actual data on chars played and horus played last month lets say, which SV I doubt they have.

dude I don't feel you really read my posts, and I am happy that SV is gonna implement open pvp flag, so I am not gonna stress too much over this post and like... read it. haha.

What I will say is this: post one thing to me that you think is hard to prove, and I will prove it, unless what you are saying is just wrong. I will write something up that is as simple as AI (maybe with some ( ) instead of Emdashes.) I can do this. This is my value in this area: ability to imagine things and ability to express.

The problem with your idea is that humans were the most played before because humans are humans... and they were not good back then, and they aren't good now. If anything humans just prove a lot of the flavor left, opposed to the sweats who wanna dive in and out.

HMU. Make a new thread if you want. Emdash PROVE:

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

Prove what? Humans are often the most played archetype and they were strong in the past idk about most played in this game but still. Alvarins currently are the most played race out of any 3+ race games I ever played there is 4 races one of which is more popular than the 3 other combined. That is just absurd.

Nah. Elf wins on MA too. You have near parity to a humans bow damage. It's not just the elf that caused the meta to shift. Dire wolves are way too strong right now. The dire wolves have low PP cost, small hitbox, huge stamina pool, and they can wear armor. You only need light armor as an pure WS MA as well so you're just a zero cost rat build that devastates all PvE. Balance isn't even needed because the entire game is just EQ dismount because of how broken the spell is.

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

facts, game is super annoying they just refuse to balance because of Henrik thinking balancing a game is democracy, and needs everyone to be happy, no people with op builds that crutch need to suffer or 95% of us normal people that don't crutch and want just a game full of variety will not play, most people wiht my preferneces do not play because they dont want to play an alvarin or a mounted and other builds are unplayable solo. So yeah, they better start balancing asap. I want every patch to nerf and buff 3-4 things outside magic, notice how they call changing some spells from 33 to 32 dmg balance when it does NOTHING. Spells are one out of many things that need balance. With clades and outlier meta builds or super weak builds being nr.1 example Alvarins need nerfs asap, and MC in general need buffs asap.

I agree with you on mounted combat needing love, but unfortunately the issue goes beyond buffing MC. The problem is structurally how they have constructed mounted gameplay. For some reason they have tied mount speed to armor weight. Just like they are cluesless on how OP being faster is on foot, they are just as ignorant for mount speeds. To be an MC mounted at all, you need armor not to lose your pet, well this requirement completely destroys your ability to counter or engage with MAs at all, you just lose. Additionally, they have tied dealing damage while mounted directly to your mounrs speed, meaning that your slow ass mount with armor now hits lower too. For starters mounts should not be slower by wearing equipment, just how players are not allowed by equipment. SV has to end the rat build zero investment infection that is plaguing the game. Investing in armor should be the best build, full stop. Point number two is that charge bonus should be just that, if hit an a enemy while moving you get a scalable bonus based on your vector to the enemy. No more of this bullshit where you sit on your mount and swing and you do literally zero damage. Shit is so retarded, it hurts. Point three, pet armor needs a massive buff, I'm talking 10~15%. Steel pet armor is 50 defense when steel player armor is 66+. Why?! It makes no God damn sense. 50 defense is literally scale tier armor on player. FOR STEEL. Point four: Zoology bonuses need to be completely removed from the game and any PP cost reduction should naturally occur. A 20% damage buff/reduction against pets for using a profession skill is brain damaged levels of stupid, but here we are, it's still in the game. Point six, the Balance skill and its Secondary skill Knockdown Resistance needs to resist all KD damage including EQ. If EQ is over 50 when you have 100 KD resist, you get dismounted. If it's below, you don't.

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

What do you mean it's plenty tanky. It take 6 long bow arrows to kill the best horse in the game with steel armor on. You killed his mount and therefore was a free kill.
It might make combat pets OP but with how the current system works, pets are a joke and complete waste of time. For starters the time commitment to just get most pets is astronomical. Then you have to level them as they are complete garbage when not at 125. And then if they die in battle your 300~400 investment is null and void and your build is that much weaker than any other player.
You are right that pet armor costs a little less than a full armor set. Make it cost more, I don't care, but right now it's ass.
I don't follow your last point. Too many pet options in the game world. Most pets have low HP, even the Snow Troll backed risen pets have a little more HP. Regarding your campo analogy, there are certain pets that melee should absolutely get destroyed by. An armored campo is one of them. We also didn't talk about how ele obliterates pets. Awhile back it was the ground spells, now after the ele prop buff you just spam instant cast ember for 50 damage a hit. That's the other reason why Zoology skills need to be removed. You have a stacking percentage modifier on magic done to AI from players. 50% + 20%
Last edit. Mastery still has options for increased damage to untamed/tamed/dom/undead up to 10%. That's a sizable increase to damage that most people don't invest in. If we're talking about balance, then mastery balance probably needs to be discussed too. I know some MAs take those, but the average FF does not, and that's a problem. FF would rather get a 3% mod somewhere else for 10% to AI.

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

Pets should be usable, and a slow ass 24,000 lbs elephant should absolutely kill a man. Steel swords already obliterate horses and do like for 100+ even on steel horse armor. You just want to hit a mount and instantly delete it? What's the point here? No pets, no mounted? We can agree that there are a lot of balance issues, but I'm not going to agree that you should just win every encounter because you're a FF.