Neftan's "Magic Stance - Base PvE as Mage" Suggestion

[Neftan]

I propose the addition of a new way to play mage, for the starting character or the poor one. Not a way to play alternatively to using spells, just an additional option that would allow mages to PvE at a low level, in the same capacity that warriors are able to.

FIghters are able to die, come back, and can PvE basic things and even PvP carefully, with nothing but the bound short sword, and blazing genitals. Mages however, are useless, and still feel gross to PvE with most of the time even with reagents on them.

I propose that a new secondary skill, under Mental Training:

• Mental Training
  • Mana Bolts (Name to be determined)
    • It is a toggle skill, that allows a user in combat mode to open their hands up instead of having them in fists.
    • -
    • Normal attacks would allow the user to send out a low damage for a cost of some mana.
      • These would be hitscan, following ecumenical spell rules. You click something and the damage will hit.
      • -
      • The damage would be balanced around the stats of a worn short swords capabilities.
      • -
      • The damage would not scale with any stats, and count as physical damage, meaning armor renders it almost useless
        • The same as a worn short sword, good for basic PvE but hard to use in any PvP
        • -
    • Blocking would allow the user to BLOCK damage, lowering some of it, but would not be able to parry.
      • It would look like a weak aura infront of the hands
    • -
    • They would have a 0.5 second cast time, and be able to be cast while moving.
      • They would be low-mid ranged
    • -

This is a creative way to enable a basic PvE content loop, making mages playable in base PvE (things like undead, pigs, scoundrels, etc) the same way a naked warrior can with a bound worn short sword.

The damage being on par with a worn short sword and counting as physical would make it impossible to abuse in PvP.
Perhaps they are also blockable if a player middle blocks, but not parriable.

Having it toggled on would not stop you from charging and casting regular spells. You would however be able to block to a better degree, but not parry, as stated above, making mages slightly less free to charge, but only slightly.

I'd love some feedback on this -

• If you don't like it, why?
  • -
• If you don't like it, how do you propose that mages become enabled to do base PvE without needing a pile of reagents, or a pet, or a lot of awkward kiting?
  • -
• What are your ideas?
  • -

I'd like to explore the topic.

 

[KermyWormy]

In general, imo the idea is mostly ok in that its raising the floor on what a very broke or new person can do with magery, but is limited in the ways it would affect proper PvP in theory. I don't like the blocking aspect tho, If you don't have anything to stop or hinder an incoming blow like a sword or shield then imo you shouldn't be able to block or parry the attack from a simple logically perspective. Also I think to avoid naked magery shenanigans, adding to the fact that it's physical damage, the projectile should be blockable from any direction except if hit from behind and also be mitigated by the player targets psy stat or whatever they plan to use for player magic mitigation, maybe make it blockable barefisted as well, just limit it in every way so it can't be exploited against other players, since there is no risk for the mage here in using it, so the reward against another player should be zero as well, basic non threat.

However, I think this would be fun to play, especially being able to move and cast, it would feel much better, but that actually bothers me because it's kind of a bandaid for something they would be better off redesigning significantly the whole basic magic system imo. I imagine that if this was implemented people would like it and then wonder why the rest of the magic system is so clunky, and since we're just talking about this one basic spell, there is still no solution for like low to mid tier regular pve mage stuff would change. This setup as you said is an alternative to worn short sword tier, but what about next couple tiers up by comparison, imo magery should scale in a similar way that fighter gear tiers do.

Personally the only thing I would ever use a worn short sword on if i was on a fighter would be like emergency pig meat or something like that, or if I literally had nothing else, if I was actually farming I'd use something a couple tiers higher just to decrease time to kill and be more efficient. There should be similar tiers with Magic, more reagent cost in exchange for more damage and lower time to kill, but in all cases it should be fun to play like a warrior typically is...like make it fun man..this is a game...iterate on what you have SV and make it better overtime.

So I think this is ok bandaid and wouldn't mind it so long as it was designed around making it really inefficient to ever really use in PvP, but I would much rather they improve quality of life and fun aspect of all magery from the bottom up which would include making in fun and viable for farming and PvE

 

[Valoran]

I really like the idea of allowing mages to cast a weak spell that only costs mana.

The specifics are obviously something that can be thought out later, but the idea itself is very solid.


I approve.

 

[ThaBadMan]

I would like to simulate a magical attack to be like a shortsword since that is the intent here.

So how about a spurt like spell thats called bound shortsword instead where you have a magical shortsword until you press x to "sheat" it. No reagents but a couple mana to cast, no cast time.
It would then function exactly like a shortsword but for mages. Can be parried like a normal shortsword and dmg will be based on int like dmg on shortsword is on str.

I just see your idea being the better of the 2 choices because you cant negate all dmg like you can against a shortsword. This to balance the start of 2 noobs or 2 ressed naked players. Both gonna take decent dmg from said weapons.

MO2 launch is also a scenario where your idea is vastly better than a shortsword.

 

[Neftan]

I would like to simulate a magical attack to be like a shortsword since that is the intent here.

So how about a spurt like spell thats called bound shortsword instead where you have a magical shortsword until you press x to "sheat" it. No reagents but a couple mana to cast, no cast time.
It would then function exactly like a shortsword but for mages. Can be parried like a normal shortsword and dmg will be based on int like dmg on shortsword is on str.

I just see your idea being the better of the 2 choices because you cant negate all dmg like you can against a shortsword. This to balance the start of 2 noobs or 2 ressed naked players. Both gonna take decent dmg from said weapons.

MO2 launch is also a scenario where your idea is vastly better than a shortsword.

You dont spawn with very much mana.

 

[Slammington Unchained]

So how about a spurt like spell thats called bound shortsword instead where you have a magical shortsword until you press x to "sheat" it. No reagents but a couple mana to cast, no cast time.
It would then function exactly like a shortsword but for mages. Can be parried like a normal shortsword and dmg will be based on int like dmg on shortsword is on str.

Yeah! And we can also have a beginner spell called Unrelenting Force, where it takes a few mana and has a long cooldown but can knock enemies back by just shouting at them!

 

[Neftan]

Yeah! And we can also have a beginner spell called Unrelenting Force, where it takes a few mana and has a long cooldown but can knock enemies back by just shouting at them!

Haha.

I understand my, and his, ideas both sound rather fantastical. However you cannot deny the terrible experience of trying so solo mage in PvE, especially as a new player.

 

[Slammington Unchained]

Haha.

I understand my, and his, ideas both sound rather fantastical. However you cannot deny the terrible experience of trying so solo mage in PvE, especially as a new player.

Solo mage is EZ mode if you make the Livingshade build. 100 in dominating get a spider queen and go afk in mino cave.

 

[Neftan]

Solo mage is EZ mode if you make the Livingshade build. 100 in dominating get a spider queen and go afk in mino cave.

Except that bends every arguement this thread makes. But you know that.

 

[Slammington Unchained]

Except that bends every arguement this thread makes. But you know that.

I bend arguments like you bend gender ahurr ahurrrr

 

[Neftan]

I bend arguments like you bend gender ahurr ahurrrr

Thank you for the bumps

 

[barcode]

sounds like something better suited to just be a spell rather than a skill, like a physical damage 'spurt'

i get that solo pve as a mage is pretty garbage. they're pretty incredible support and necessary for group content tho, which has been their role, and theres nothing preventing them from also using said worn shortsword after dying

-barcode

 

[Neftan]

sounds like something better suited to just be a spell rather than a skill, like a physical damage 'spurt'

i get that solo pve as a mage is pretty garbage. they're pretty incredible support and necessary for group content tho, which has been their role, and theres nothing preventing them from also using said worn shortsword after dying

-barcode

Often having 10str makes it pretty hard, also lack of all the combat skills, and also - the lack of want. Mages generally want to mage.

 

[PatWins]

Neftan, you are the man. Keep your ideas flowing. We 100% support you. The community needs more like you.

 

[ElPerro]

Maybe buff spurt a bit? It would only make naked mages more annoying in pvp tho

 

[Rennuir]

shouldnt be too hard to code to have it do more dmg vs ai while keeping it low vs players

either way pve mage is lame/bad without trying to cheese it with just a pet/summon

 

[Neftan]

Maybe buff spurt a bit? It would only make naked mages more annoying in pvp tho

TFW reviving in a dry area

 

[Phen]

Mages and Magic!! My passion falls deep in magic. To see how this game went about it was great. No need for weapons or shields, just reagents and your crazy mind blasting materials apart causing effects. That idea was a huge excitment for me. For some changes I'm happy to hear coming, skill shots... YES!! Skill shot spells, self AoE spells, casted AoE spells, direct spells and DoT.

Those are what i would like to see. Keep using reagents as it's a source, just like a weapon is a source( for damage ). Mana does need some work though, I believe a mage should be able to have unlimited mana as long as they rest properly, like how a fighter stops for stamina ( grey bars included ). Also a fun addition, allowing multiple mages to combine spells, making larger healing with equal mana loss. Even pushing more damage while using more mana then normal. Giving mages a higher focus of team work in battles and missions.

From what I read, magic is being completely reworked. I'm excited to see what they bring out as the ideas they have spoke of sounds great as is. UE4 will help make the game available for so much more details and actions. Magic is going the be beautiful. VR magic!! Mhmm.... A Mortal Life..❤

 

[KermyWormy]

Mages and Magic!! My passion falls deep in magic. To see how this game went about it was great. No need for weapons or shields, just reagents and your crazy mind blasting materials apart causing effects. That idea was a huge excitment for me. For some changes I'm happy to hear coming, skill shots... YES!! Skill shot spells, self AoE spells, casted AoE spells, direct spells and DoT.

Those are what i would like to see. Keep using reagents as it's a source, just like a weapon is a source( for damage ). Mana does need some work though, I believe a mage should be able to have unlimited mana as long as they rest properly, like how a fighter stops for stamina ( grey bars included ). Also a fun addition, allowing multiple mages to combine spells, making larger healing with equal mana loss. Even pushing more damage while using more mana then normal. Giving mages a higher focus of team work in battles and missions.

From what I read, magic is being completely reworked. I'm excited to see what they bring out as the ideas they have spoke of sounds great as is. UE4 will help make the game available for so much more details and actions. Magic is going the be beautiful. VR magic!! Mhmm.... A Mortal Life..❤

I think you're spot on about mana regen, the more I think about it the more things I see that SV just never attempted to finish. The original implementation was just very flawed...which is forgivable that it didn't start out great...but they never iterated on what they had at the beginning...and MO has been live for 10 years, such wasted opportunity.

All aspects of mana pool, regen, spell cost, and damage need to be adjusted. Food always had that mana reserve bar attribute and yet it was never useful in anyway I am aware of, it's like they planned for it, but never implemented it. That's the story of MO tho I guess.

I think healing should be adjusted too, like less burst heals overall, and maybe more HoT things instead idk. Healing the way it was with spells, bandages, and potions made fights last way too long and allowed people to reset fights too often imo, and it allowed healing items to cover-up too many game-play mistakes.

SV did a lot of things poorly in MO, over time especially, but Magic is one area where I think they really shot themselves in the foot because a lot of people who tried out MO were interested in Magery and then found it to be implemented so poorly. There's no numbers to support this of course, but I really think a significant number of newer players never stuck around because this very basic feature of almost all RPGs was so clunky and limiting. It's should be such a basic core feature of an RPG and it should have always been as simple to run a basic mage as it was to run a fighter, it should have been equally useful as well to basic gameplay loops, but it wasn't. It definitely had it's uses, and was absolutely necessary for certain things, but it's core basic gameplay was not good.

Above all else it should be fun to do, it should feel smooth and fun to run around and sling spells. Just like SV is spending time right now tweaking melee in the Combat Alpha, they need to be planning on doing the same thing, if not actually more to rebuild magic so it's equally fun and engaging as combat could be and hopefully will be in MO2. Just imagine if running a mage was slick and fun and the controls were tight, and you could go out and hunt and explore dark caves with your mage light, explore underwater caves with underwater breathing, just do it right this time and you almost double the amount of people that will find the game engaging, because this time around you're going to have to really make a choice between mage and fighter because of character limit, and if you make it garbage then people don't get to enjoy or play the thing that was their first choice, and that's never a good thing for player retention imo.

 

[Nenju]

ISo how about a spurt like spell thats called bound shortsword instead where you have a magical shortsword until you press x to "sheat" it. No reagents but a couple mana to cast, no cast time.
It would then function exactly like a shortsword but for mages. Can be parried like a normal shortsword and dmg will be based on int like dmg on shortsword is on str.

^this, tho im a mageplayer im affraid of that spell might be a quick cast to "easily" parry in pvp, not sure tho would need some testing.
easy fix might be that the sword can only last a few parries or destroys after one parry so u "can" only block to negate some dmg