Make torches into an offhand item

Eldrath

Active member
Basically make them be like shields. Having them as a main weapon is annoying, limits solo exploration and dungeoneering.

As I said in the dual wielding thread I wouldn´t mind if the off hand is exclusive for certain things like shields and torches.

Another option would be to let us choose where to put them, although depending on the dual wield system it would make everything akward again.

Please make torches less akward to use.
 

barcode

Active member
Jun 2, 2020
115
98
28
also: magic
consider how it can be done with lighting, possibly making a 'simple' spell like 'light' available. having to unequip a torch to cast a spell and meanwhile stuck in darkness is silly

and for the love of god allow torches to be set as non-combat weapons so they dont swing when in offhand. maybe let it be toggleable so you can turn it on if you really want, but i doubt it would get much use

-barcode
 

KermyWormy

Member
May 29, 2020
63
69
18
California
It's almost comical how poorly and clumsy torches were in MO1 and in MO2 they managed to make it even worse.

Please fix! This is low hanging fruit SV!

Ecumenical should absolutely have a mage light spell, I think I've harped on that before.

Implementing good darkness In the dungeons and caves and even wilderness at night can be cool but not when the tools you have to navigate in that darkness and actually mechanically and functionally play the game gets totally borked.
 

Phen

Active member
May 29, 2020
329
175
43
Earth
I love the torches, its a light and a weapon!! Who knows how beastly we can make these. Or if they could be used for lighting arrows of your acherer friends.

I agree that they should have some offhand lighting, someone mentioned hip lanterns which I thought was great. Just an item you can carry when out of combat and it stays lighting a decent area once in combat. Agree with having Ecu getting a light spell, maybe even make it a blind it need be, ideally you charge it and you have a light, fizzle and relight or use and cause small flash blindness.

Putting the torch in the left hand doesn't fix anything, its all temporary stuff until release. I would assume after release you can put your 1h weapons in either hand of your choosing. Shields may default to left because it was most common.
 

Eldrath

Active member
I don´t like any solution where you use the torch as a weapon unless it´s your choice. Making it offhand and useable as a weapon will make it as akward as in MO1.

Laterns, light spells, glowing mushrooms are all fine but noobs are gonna use torches and they should work smoothly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rhias

ThaBadMan

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
361
293
63
29
Norway
This was so bad in MO, would like to see torch priority when having weapon equipped completely gone.
 

Phen

Active member
May 29, 2020
329
175
43
Earth
I don´t like any solution where you use the torch as a weapon unless it´s your choice. Making it offhand and useable as a weapon will make it as akward as in MO1.

Laterns, light spells, glowing mushrooms are all fine but noobs are gonna use torches and they should work smoothly.
What's wrong with them? They do like 20 damage and produce light. Isn't that exactly what a torch is?

Look at it this way, when you get dual wielding you guys can equip it however you want. Though I see nothing wrong with them. Very accurate game on this torch topic.. might as well go play something without hardcore in the title. After all, this is one of the most hardcore games out. To remove something that can partially blind those cave drewllers, is just taking away from the game and making it less interesting. Think past alpha some guys...
 

Eldrath

Active member
What's wrong with them? They do like 20 damage and produce light. Isn't that exactly what a torch is?

Look at it this way, when you get dual wielding you guys can equip it however you want. Though I see nothing wrong with them. Very accurate game on this torch topic.. might as well go play something without hardcore in the title. After all, this is one of the most hardcore games out. To remove something that can partially blind those cave drewllers, is just taking away from the game and making it less interesting. Think past alpha some guys...
I am thinking past alpha testing and I know no one except apparently you that liked how torches were handled in the last game. Making something shit to be used is not hardcore it´s just bad design. It should be smooth experience and the hard core part comes with interaction, knowledge and reaction times. Not right clicking your weapons in the correct order so it does not screw up. These kind of things were a big part of why MO1 failed and now they are being repeated.

It´s not realistic. Whatever burns in there would fly out of that silly cage when you swing it with any force, especially on the overhead strike. It does not deliver burn damage. If I take a torch for actuall light, why would I ever use it to hit someone? I wouldn´t. I would my main hand to fight and the torch for light and maybe to parry. I would certainly not risk being in complete darkness. That´s insanely stupid.

Why are torches made with steel anyway? I mean we should have very basic torches that can be made very easily by a noob. You need to provide easily accessible light sources if you want to make the night and cave truly dark. Even a hardcore game needs tools to overcome adversity. Otherwise it´s just - again - badly designed.

If SV wants torch bearers they can implement some kind of special better torch you carry with two hand. There should be simple not obstructive way of using a freaking torch in your off-hand. Honestly I baffled that I even have to discuss this.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: Phen

Phen

Active member
May 29, 2020
329
175
43
Earth
I am thinking past alpha testing and I know no one except apparently you that liked how torches were handled in the last game. Making something shit to be used is not hardcore it´s just bad design. It should be smooth experience and the hard core part comes with interaction, knowledge and reaction times. Not right clicking your weapons in the correct order so it does not screw up. These kind of things were a big part of why MO1 failed and now they are being repeated.

It´s not realistic. Whatever burns in there would fly out of that silly cage when you swing it with any force, especially on the overhead strike. It does not deliver burn damage. If I take a torch for actuall light, why would I ever use it to hit someone? I wouldn´t. I would my main hand to fight and the torch for light and maybe to parry. I would certainly not risk being in complete darkness. That´s insanely stupid.

Why are torches made with steel anyway? I mean we should have very basic torches that can be made very easily by a noob. You need to provide easily accessible light sources if you want to make the night and cave truly dark. Even a hardcore game needs tools to overcome adversity. Otherwise it´s just - again - badly designed.

If SV wants torch bearers they can implement some kind of special better torch you carry with two hand. There should be simple not obstructive way of using a freaking torch in your off-hand. Honestly I baffled that I even have to discuss this.
Must be a stuck in MO1. Im sorry for hitting a button of yours. Though I must say this is MO2 and dual wielding alone being used properly will fix a few problems. Not to mention they have a few more slots in weaponry on the characters.

Yeah they could add burn damage but its just alpha at the moment. I would assume when they bring magic they'll have other things like burn damage. If they even go that route.

As for using steel its just the head of the torch. Im sure it has some wood / cloth / random combo. Doesnt have to be steel, though they are testing damage in steel weapons. Which I as stated above it is a weapon. Plus a torch is cheap, if someone can't buy a torch they have something else going wrong.

Basing it on real life.. talking medievalish times. Here's a quick idea of what torches were made of @ 2:20 - 2:39. He also goes into the debunks of torchs. Though @11:15- 11:55, he explains how they were able to be used all night.


He goes over lanterns some and it would seem to be the best offhand item. As it has less light projection but longer sustainability outside.


Now let's be real with games.. you can make a torch, its a weapon and light source. Lighting lasts forever, depending on what it's made of will be its damage and durability. Because its your equipment, hitting a weakly made torch may break it, badly made torch has nearly no damage and easily replaceable. Assuming you'll be able to buy a few different torches from some vendor. Otherwise gotta find a crafter and buy something durable.
Or buy a lantern cause it's only less light and doesn't take place of your shield.

I wasn't saying I like MO1 torches, I was just saying I like MO2 torches. I forget this forum falls into MO1 failures, instead of truly thought out logical ideas for MO2. We haven't see anything really, we haven't made anything ( excluding lots of work for their teams ), we just cracked the edge of combat alpha imo, whenever we see the other mechanics we will be able to comment better. My understanding is weapons and lighting are still a WIP.

Which Seb did ask about dual wielding suggestions, I think everyone needs to slow down some. We are all excited, I get it and am right with everyone. But pushing things won't make things better. This is one game im happy they are taking the time to really nail this. Not poo out another MO1.

We will all be Beaters from SAO. Put a smile on and get ready for your adventures! SV's ears are working just fine. The fixes are visible and suggestions are being heard.

-Phen
 

Eldrath

Active member
Well, I am talking about MO1 because the current system is the exact same. A torch is a one handed weapon that gives off light. In MO1 they did not cause damage, which made them even more annoying. So I guess that is an improvement.

I don´t think it´s a good system as pointed out above. Yes, dual wield could magically fix this by allowing me to put it in the off hand and use a one handed weapon of my choice in the other. But it most definetely will change my fighting style. For no good reason IMO.

I think part of tutorial should be to get wood and craft the most basic torch yourself. You shouldn´t even need an axe to do it. Then again we don´t know what they plan with tools. They might be character bound again for all we know.

I´m defintely against selling torches on vendors. Items should be player made.

It´s not really about pushing my bottoms. If I disagree with something I wholeheartily do so. Going for a compromise sadly doesn´t work well with feedback towards SV in my several yearísh experience. It´s better to give a few more extreme viewpoints.
 

Thebe Thanewulf

New member
May 28, 2020
1
1
1
While I'd like to have the option to have an offhand torch not act as a weapon, the main thing I'd like to see with torches is the ability to use them without being in combat mode. It doesn't feel or look good awkwardly waddling around when all you want is some light for exploring.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KermyWormy

Teknique

Active member
Jun 15, 2020
315
179
43
While I'd like to have the option to have an offhand torch not act as a weapon, the main thing I'd like to see with torches is the ability to use them without being in combat mode. It doesn't feel or look good awkwardly waddling around when all you want is some light for exploring.
I just don't understand the draw back to having a torch, if it doesn't also make you trash xd
 

Livingshade

Member
Jul 4, 2020
92
35
18
I am thinking past alpha testing and I know no one except apparently you that liked how torches were handled in the last game. Making something shit to be used is not hardcore it´s just bad design. It should be smooth experience and the hard core part comes with interaction, knowledge and reaction times. Not right clicking your weapons in the correct order so it does not screw up. These kind of things were a big part of why MO1 failed and now they are being repeated.

It´s not realistic. Whatever burns in there would fly out of that silly cage when you swing it with any force, especially on the overhead strike. It does not deliver burn damage. If I take a torch for actuall light, why would I ever use it to hit someone? I wouldn´t. I would my main hand to fight and the torch for light and maybe to parry. I would certainly not risk being in complete darkness. That´s insanely stupid.

Why are torches made with steel anyway? I mean we should have very basic torches that can be made very easily by a noob. You need to provide easily accessible light sources if you want to make the night and cave truly dark. Even a hardcore game needs tools to overcome adversity. Otherwise it´s just - again - badly designed.

If SV wants torch bearers they can implement some kind of special better torch you carry with two hand. There should be simple not obstructive way of using a freaking torch in your off-hand. Honestly I baffled that I even have to discuss this.
hey HALLO? MANY torches were made with rags soaked in some sort of oils and wrapped around stick, having cage around so the rag does not fall off is the whole point so you are 100% completely wrong when you say torch breaks when you swing, is just not true mate. and now you complain torch is made of steel WHAT. WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING MATE? many torches WERE made of some sort of metal like iron
 

bbihah

Active member
Jul 10, 2020
126
95
28
I just don't understand the draw back to having a torch, if it doesn't also make you trash xd
If they made it so you couldn't just stash your torch away like a flashlight whenever you felt like it, but had to drop it once its been lit then
A) You are big glowing target, someone not using a torch can home in on you easy and hit you from the dark and fade away into the dark, this happened in Mo1 a lot in caves. Plus you'll be seen from quite far away in the open as well.

B) You actually see worse at a distance when you are wielding a light source, this always was a thing in mo1(Not sure if by design), hope it'll also be a thing in mo2. Meaning a torch might help you navigate the pitch black darkness but when its not quite that dark yet it might still help you a bit at very short distance but anything outside the range of the torch will be basically completely pitch black to you.

C) Limited to 1h weapons for fighting while wielding it. (in the future I guess certain spells could also require two hands while others don't, heck there could be spells that you could use for a light source. But that's for a different thread and at a different time)


Just as suggested in the thread starter, I think torches should be always equipped in a fashion where you don't use them as weapons, the dualwielding in Mo1 comes to mind and makes me cringe how horrible that was, but I also think they should do two more things;

-Make it so that you have light your torch and once lit it can not be stashed, only dropped( can be picked up again but never stashed in your inventory again). This makes bringing multiple torches, or crafting them when out and about be a valid alternative to making campfires to temporarily light up an area. when lit they lose X durability per Y time meaning putting a bit of resources and time into crafting some torches will give a longer duration torch than what the vendors will be giving. Maybe even opens up for some crafting varieties different woods+catalyst might give you different brightness, longevity and maybe even color?

-Torch when lit is always wielded, even when out of combat mode. If you have a 2her equipped the torch is automatically dropped when you enter combat mode. With 1-hander you pull out your weapon and then the torch can be dropped with whatever method or keybind the devs choose. I'd say something quick that doesn't even take up another separate keybind might work. Like holding push (block + LMB) is a pretty good bind for this. Might use that very same one to drop the torch when not in combat mode, too?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Teknique

Valoran

Active member
May 28, 2020
111
144
43
I would love to be able to hold a torch while not in combat mode.

I also want to see separate animations for drawing your weapon while you already have a torch out, the same should go for equipping new 1h weapons while you already have one unsheathed, you should simply unsheathe the new weapon in the other hand, rather than sheath the one you already have, then unsheathe both of them.


I will admit I haven't read all previous replies, but the basic logic is that if you have a real weapon equipped in your main hand, there is zero reason you would want to hit with the torch instead of the real weapon. This is why it was annoying in MO1.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Eldrath

Anachroniser

New member
Aug 9, 2020
28
7
3
I mean, I got a crazy idea here. Lanterns attached to the belt. Also an even crazier idea, add the setting "allow attacks with torches".