Let us mix more of the weapons and handles

Jatix

Member
Sep 30, 2020
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Disclaimer- I'm fine with making limits so you can't mix certain weapons and handles aka greatblades on poles, etc.

To me one of the things that makes Mortal Online so great is that you can do virtually anything. Which doesnt mean you should do it, but you can. And a big part of that was the crafting. You want to make a short ass 2h sword? go ahead. Put a greatblade on a 1h handle? go for it. Hey thats a cool hammer head. Look at all the different sticks it can go on.

I just see no reason to limit most weapon heads and handles from being combined. A flake 2h sword weighs less than a steel 1h. Theres no reason you shouldnt be able to make a flake 1h great blade. If it gets too heavy its too heavy but assuming its not theres no reason it shouldnt be craftable. Theres nothing impossible about a ripped thursar holding a 2h sword in 1 hand. And assuming a big sword uses more stam than a short one theres nothing imbalanced about it.

Same with axes and clubs. If you can put a star mace on a 2h shaft, theres no reason you cant put it on a shorter shaft. Or a longer shaft.

This is mortal online, you should be allowed to do whatever you want. If some combos will be broken thats ok to limit it. But otherwise it should just be down to the stats. With proper handle balance, like making longer handles worse stam, 1h more str req, ect, theres no reason to not let us do it.

And I understand wanting things to mesh well. Like removing gloves and shoulders customization to make armors mesh better. Thats acceptable. But I see no reason a mace that goes on a stick cant look fine being put on a different length stick. Same with swords.

It just bugs me that I'm not allowed to make a long 1h sword, or a short 2h sword, or put my fav hammer on a 1h handle when it weights less than some of the 1h axe heads. More options is more mortal.
 

Valoran

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
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I completely agree and was about to make a thread about exactly this.

I don't agree with limiting clubs and axes to their respective shafts, as there should be no difference at all and the distinction is arbitrary.

In my opinion (I'll be making a separate thread about this) most of the 2H shafts should essentially be deleted, and we should have individually distinct shaft options for lengths.

A short, medium and long 2H shaft.

The current ones are only visually different based on arbitrary cosmetics and their stats don't seem to make much sense.
 

Waalan

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May 28, 2020
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This was also something that disappointed me when I first looked at the new crafting system. Previously we had the different parts of a weapon and made different kinds of weapons by combining hilt/shaft with a head. Now we first choose what type of weapon we want to make and then get a number of options from there. It was more immersive and felt better the way it used to be.

...
A short, medium and long 2H shaft.

The current ones are only visually different based on arbitrary cosmetics and their stats don't seem to make much sense.
I very much agree with this aswell. I would prefer to have a small number of options where every option makes bigger difference. Now we have loads of options which only gives a very small difference in stats. Every piece would ideally have its own characteristics instead of being cosmetic flavor. Having different size shafts as valoran wrote is a good example.

In addition to this i also noticed that the size of the handle changes when you use different heads on the poleaxe. This is also unintuitive to me. I think the length of the handle should be determined only by the handle.
 
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Phen

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May 29, 2020
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I'm happy with how they have it. Don't have to worry about super meta weapons or heavy unbalancing. They just gotta fix the spears atm, something seems off with them.

I did like to mix anything in MO1 but if we are talking competitive gaming, then SV really needs to ensure a fairly balanced game when it comes to weapons. Otherwise we will see meta weapons and other weapons will have to be over looked because they arent viable in comparison.

I could see a master or grand master mixing particular handles with heads because they have the knowledge, though i think they did very well with weapon crafting.
 
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Eldrath

Well-known member
Currently it´s all over the place. Spear handles for example seem fine in terms of different length. One handed axe handles are very sameish or so short that they are not really effective.

I do agree that the old system provided a lot more creativity. I don´t think this system will be a lot easier to balance compared to the old one (that was Sebs argument for the change) since a few viable combinations will eventually become the meta anyway. One of the good features of MO1s crafting system was that you COULD make a worthless steel weapon. I feel like SV is moving away from the possibility for players to make mistakes but making everything "viable" instead. Not a fan of that approach, but then I´m old and grumpy and don´t like everyone getting participation trophies. :D

We also know that armor crafting is gonna be dumbed down as well, maybe even more. So it´s a trend with SV to make crafting less interesting but more "approachable". Personally I think that the wrong choice, since the original crafting was the thing people praised.
 

Jatix

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Sep 30, 2020
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I agree, I'd rather have less total handles and heads but more mixability. Right now theres tons of different handles and each weapon type has its own heads but the differences are so minimal between a lot of them, that it doesnt matter.

Some of the options could be there just for cosmetic reasons, which isnt truly bad. But I'd rather each item has its own statistical use also.
 

KermyWormy

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I think it's better this way now because it gives them more dials for tuning without tuning those dials effecting everything else. They'll be better able to target and fine tune what may need to be buffed or nerfed down the line.

I would say it's not so much about is it perfect now, but more about how they will be able to target tuning to make things better over time and in the future and also when they inevitably add more handles or heads later on.
 

Rulant

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May 30, 2020
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I think it's better this way now because it gives them more dials for tuning without tuning those dials effecting everything else. They'll be better able to target and fine tune what may need to be buffed or nerfed down the line.

I would say it's not so much about is it perfect now, but more about how they will be able to target tuning to make things better over time and in the future and also when they inevitably add more handles or heads later on.
agree
 

Jatix

Member
Sep 30, 2020
32
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18
I think it's better this way now because it gives them more dials for tuning without tuning those dials effecting everything else. They'll be better able to target and fine tune what may need to be buffed or nerfed down the line.

I would say it's not so much about is it perfect now, but more about how they will be able to target tuning to make things better over time and in the future and also when they inevitably add more handles or heads later on.
Theres literally more now that needs to be tuned than in mo1. Because each type needs its own heads. Before they could just balance a head, and it worked on many handles. Short blades were fast and weaker, big blades were slower and stronger. Etc. Simple balance. Longer handles gave worse stam later down the line. Now they need to properly balance tons of individual heads and handles.
 

KermyWormy

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Theres literally more now that needs to be tuned than in mo1. Because each type needs its own heads. Before they could just balance a head, and it worked on many handles. Short blades were fast and weaker, big blades were slower and stronger. Etc. Simple balance. Longer handles gave worse stam later down the line. Now they need to properly balance tons of individual heads and handles.
Now they can just adjust a single handle type to target a much smaller permutation of over or underpowered things. Same thing from the other side with heads, changing one doesn't effect as many other things. It more knobs yes, but easier to target specific problems and adjust
 
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Eldrath

Well-known member
Now they can just adjust a single handle type to target a much smaller permutation of over or underpowered things. Same thing from the other side with heads, changing one doesn't effect as many other things. It more knobs yes, but easier to target specific problems and adjust
While I understand the principle. How many times did this issue actually come up in MO1? Where adjusting the value for a handle or head affected a lot of other combinations and made them viable or trash?

I can´t think of very many. Flanged maces and long/sauroter handle come to mind. Although that was fixed by simply making that head less effective. Most other examples relate more to bad meshes (axes/spears) than the values inherent in the combination.
 
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KermyWormy

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While I understand the principle. How many times did this issue actually come up in MO1? Where adjusting the value for a handle or head affected a lot of other combinations and made them viable or trash?

I can´t think of very many. Flanged maces and long/sauroter handle come to mind. Although that was fixed by simply making that head less effective. Most other examples relate more to bad meshes (axes/spears) than the values inherent in the combination.
Ya off the top of my head I can't think of a specific example from MO1, but I wanna say SV has talked about how balancing the system the way it was before was problematic.

But just from a logical perspective I think this newer system gives them a better set of tools to work with this time around where they'll be able to better balance specific parts without messing with other parts that are already working fine.

And then also when adding new pieces they won't have to worry about as many permutations that might be broken.

It also would let them do something like, and this is just an example not a suggestion, but they could add weak spot properties to like just dagger hilts and or heads and not have to worry about that leaking into swords or spear combos where they might not want or would be OP etc.
 

Chalice

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May 28, 2020
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I agree, I'd rather have less total handles and heads but more mixability. Right now theres tons of different handles and each weapon type has its own heads but the differences are so minimal between a lot of them, that it doesnt matter.

Some of the options could be there just for cosmetic reasons, which isnt truly bad. But I'd rather each item has its own statistical use also.
Completely agree. I believe more mixability between current handles and heads would provide a lot of fun for the crafting community.
 

Eldrath

Well-known member
Ya off the top of my head I can't think of a specific example from MO1, but I wanna say SV has talked about how balancing the system the way it was before was problematic.

But just from a logical perspective I think this newer system gives them a better set of tools to work with this time around where they'll be able to better balance specific parts without messing with other parts that are already working fine.

And then also when adding new pieces they won't have to worry about as many permutations that might be broken.

It also would let them do something like, and this is just an example not a suggestion, but they could add weak spot properties to like just dagger hilts and or heads and not have to worry about that leaking into swords or spear combos where they might not want or would be OP etc.
Yeah I read that too. But then they also said that they added the compass because "players" these days don´t understand a round one. Sooo... sometimes it´s healthy to disagree with their logic.

The weakspot is actually a good example tbh. I think there was a overpowered mercy dagger spear at some point between ´11 and ´13.
 

KermyWormy

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Yeah I read that too. But then they also said that they added the compass because "players" these days don´t understand a round one. Sooo... sometimes it´s healthy to disagree with their logic.

The weakspot is actually a good example tbh. I think there was a overpowered mercy dagger spear at some point between ´11 and ´13.
They can always add more options for handles under each category over time as well which should satisfy those who want more options...I think at the end of the day that's what some are reacting to.

I can't pretend to know the depth of the complaints or feedback SV has received over the years in regards to MO1 and now the MO2 alpha, but people will complain about anything and everything, and everyone also thinks they know exactly how it should be done...so I'll take SV at their word when they say people complained they couldn't read the OG compass. As silly/sad/ridiculous as that sounds.