How Do We Fix The Economy(/Game)?

Emdash

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Sep 22, 2021
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Stupid gold amounts are one cause of the economy being 'weird,' but if people were playing and properly demanding, consuming, then it wouldn't be so bad. I don't care what stacks people are holding or what hand shake deals are going on, I mainly base my economic ideas on brokers.

I do honestly think Trinkets and Flux have caused a big problem. Before, it was just people having gold to do w/e with, but now they can get invaluable trinkets. I was reading Heretic talk about mining, and I mean... imagine getting gems that the guys in town could put in your trinkets, change their tier (only +, so people couldn't like... unroll-reroll,) and gen new stats. Not changing from cup to silver, but like... increase gems, add in gems do crush results. Trinkets are such a huge commodity that I believe they are kind of running (I won't say ruining!) the economy, in a way. Thus, one thing we need in the absence of more people to consume is more ways to alter trinkets and more way for different actions to pick up items that modify trinkets because, apparently, that is big biz.

It makes you wonder ( lol not an economist, I just am an economic voyeur,) if in general adding MORE MATS (as in base quantities) to the game would help balance out the gold. Atm tho, not much TC stuff, trinkets... what else is there to spend money on. Capes? :eek:

The economy is bad, but it seems like it's going beyond that and affecting the game as a whole, and not just in a 'I can't play a game w/ a trash ass economy!' sort of way. There are things that are obviously incentivized to do, and then there are things that are not really worth it. It should not be that way. Blood, sweat, tears.. that should get you somewhere; that shit is what the economy is based on, base level brute work.

I can ride around and MA people, kill shit... y'know, and as I told other people, I'm not SUPER MAD, so I don't care that much, but definitely it affects my play time that the game is falling into ruins more and more as a functional system. As for systems, I think I understand them better than 'the one system' of economics. Meta-systems... oke.
 

Emdash

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Sep 22, 2021
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Starts with W
haha, yea but... ain happnan. I dunno why, but it is how it is. Gotta solve the puzzle from within the puzzle. It's like those puzzles w/ one square missing and everything is fucky now. We can't just reroll UNFORT.

Edit: 2 thoughts to marinate on.

1. MO1 had a lot of duping and massive goldz and the economy wasn't as fucky. I think part of the whole SV 'buy another acct' strategy of introducing OP ways to farm shit w/ new content etc...

2. People always clown on me for making suggestions despite not bein' an expert, but I mean, they hired programmers, they hired network people, it's hard to imagine they can't hire someone for like 1k euro or 5k euro or w/e to really look at the game and figure out how to start it back toward the direction of economic balance. Might not be a huge resume booster, but everyone likes a lil cash. I wonder why they haven't. One theory is... they want it this way??
 
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Tzone

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May 16, 2021
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Starts with W
end with ipe

Also need to fix all the dupes people can do and get better testers that dont purposefully let bug through so they can exploit them day one of patch.
 

CistaCista

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Mar 13, 2022
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I don't care what stacks people are holding or what hand shake deals are going on
You say you don't care about that.
You try to describe on what you think is wrong with the economy, but can you elaborate on how you feel it hurts you as a player - if you don't care about the first things you mentioned?
 
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Gladiator

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Apr 26, 2022
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A good set of trinkets will run you 50k gold.
A cape will run you 30k gold.
Now... don't you think that , its a bit obvious we have an inflation problem considering a freaking Castle is 4000 gold? Just saying....

As for how to fix it? Add gold sinks. Repair weapons for gold. Repair armors for gold. Turn in 5 bronze trinkets and 50 gold for a silver trinket.
Would it actually fix it? It depends. We are very far down the rabbit hole because of the dupes and the exploitative flux farming. We may be beyond the point of no return. SV said there will never be a wipe so, live with it I guess. Have fun playing knowing that nothing you ever acquire in the game has any value. Not so fun is it? :D
 

Gnidex

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Feb 2, 2022
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Only a wipe can fix it but they doubled down on that never happening so it's doomed.
Then again for the wipe to do anything they need to fix all the exploits which they are incapable of doing.

So it's doomed if they wipe, doomed if they don't.
 

Dracu

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Jul 13, 2020
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Germany
There is no fixing. Damage is done. More ressources are generated then beeing used. Armor and weapon crafting is not a sustainable market by itself.
The only decent market is ressource trading.
But the demand is low and the offer high... thus shit prices while many ppl have more money then they would ever need while also having more ressources then they would ever need.

Want a better economy? Get more players, waaaaay more players
 

Rynnik

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Feb 11, 2022
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The number one gold sink statistically if we could see every bit of data is definitely people leaving the game.

Kind of funny right? Stacks of gold is awesome and you feel good for getting it then rapidly get bored because wtf else is there to do.

Sandbox MMOs run on their in game economics, there was a reason why when EVE was good they had an economist on staff and published reports. The small economic activities provide the ‘space’ for the big moments of sandbox game play awesome that make games like this so fun.

Given time I think we will continue to see an exodus of people who broke the game for themselves leaving and I think it will give the game a shake out economy and make it or die depending on how SV moves from there.
 

Tzone

Well-known member
May 16, 2021
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A good set of trinkets will run you 50k gold.
A cape will run you 30k gold.
Now... don't you think that , its a bit obvious we have an inflation problem considering a freaking Castle is 4000 gold? Just saying....

As for how to fix it? Add gold sinks. Repair weapons for gold. Repair armors for gold. Turn in 5 bronze trinkets and 50 gold for a silver trinket.
Would it actually fix it? It depends. We are very far down the rabbit hole because of the dupes and the exploitative flux farming. We may be beyond the point of no return. SV said there will never be a wipe so, live with it I guess. Have fun playing knowing that nothing you ever acquire in the game has any value. Not so fun is it? :D
Its not a gameplay loop issue. Its a bugband glitch issue. Only reason people can drop stacks of gold is because dupers and RMT.

You get a nice drop a duper or RMTer will drop stacks on your drop but you would take a very long time to get the ammount of gold people dont even blink spending on a trinket.
 

Emdash

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Sep 22, 2021
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The number one gold sink statistically if we could see every bit of data is definitely people leaving the game.

Kind of funny right? Stacks of gold is awesome and you feel good for getting it then rapidly get bored because wtf else is there to do.

Sandbox MMOs run on their in game economics, there was a reason why when EVE was good they had an economist on staff and published reports. The small economic activities provide the ‘space’ for the big moments of sandbox game play awesome that make games like this so fun.

Given time I think we will continue to see an exodus of people who broke the game for themselves leaving and I think it will give the game a shake out economy and make it or die depending on how SV moves from there.

I disagree with Dracu on no fixing. It's a balance issue. Intake/output. Gold = materials (lol trinkets and capes are wild, but zz.) I would legit be less upset if dudes were running around in hard cronogh like MO1 mining era than the wattafuk trinkets. I agree with Ich on the siege thing, but like you said about the gold sink, you dunno how that is gonna turn. Who is gonna lose the TC war and rage quit? I was trying to convince someone to play again, and I used that argument as well, "Remem how many times (name) got sieged and quit the game??" I said the people who benefit most are the ones who kinda hang around and accumulate mats from being in these highly successful guilds, but they don't quit.

The problem with this is it's like trying to get rid of the plague if people who die of the plague are no longer contagious (and further, those people can always come back for new content and should the economy ever deflate, they are stacked even more!)

The reason I believe it can be fixed is because it hasn't been -that long,- but the longer it goes, the more it sucks, and the rich people aren't the only one quitting, it's the nubs, too.

I mean there have been what like 4-5 stack of gold generating things? ( Dare I list?) Haven opti-farming, risar glitchmobs, whatever people did w/ alt servers, flux farm. Did I miss one? Does stucking bosses result in stax of gold eventually?

Generating stacks of gold thru farming is not really *that hard* if you wanna farm hard.

The basis has to be work = money. My only POV is make work more valuable. Increase the value of work until it is properly balanced, so a 'working' guild or a 'working person' can do well for themselves even in the presence of people who already exploited stax of gold. I'm not saying it doesn't take a lot of effort to glitch stacks of gold, either, cuz let's be real, it does. At a certain point, you are doing the same 'work' except it's in a glitchy way.

What you mine is not adjusted, stack drops are not adjusted, wood is not adjusted. All of these things are also essential to the economy. In that way, who would sell their high tier mats for gold? Well, it needs to become more barter based, for one, but in general, just need to create more MATS. Not trinkets, not capes. Gold means almost nothing in this game cept for books, deeds, and taxes/upkeep. I guess to recharge your OGH trinkets, too.

But yea at least when someone came out in S tier armor with super pots etc, they could theoretically be killed and looted.

Also yea... SV legit needs someone too look at their economy. It's not as vast as Eve, but I don't think the solution would be THAT HARD. I honestly dunno much about... economics, what tools they have, etc. And they wouldn't wanna expose that to a gamer, anyway, how fucked up everything is, but some outside person could do it.

You say you don't care about that.
You try to describe on what you think is wrong with the economy, but can you elaborate on how you feel it hurts you as a player - if you don't care about the first things you mentioned?
edit: are you trolling? lol. I would put it as a contagion, as I spoke of, that ripples thru everything and back to me. It's making more people quit. But like I said MO1 wasn't unlike this, but they did fuck up by adding end game stuff. I'm sure people had stupid gold in early MO1, too, but what could it get you? If OGH is like 1s a unit (for this example,) the person has to want the gold and believe it has equal value. If not, then the whole game play is fucked. But yea, I remember the day I was enlightened to the true state of MO1. I remember LordMega (iirc) telling me here that there wasn't that much exploiting/duping going on in MO2 and that he def knows way better than I do. haha. Games weird, people are weird, but other than nutso shit like... crazy spell scrolls, capes, trinkets... there isn't that much gold value stuff, and that stuff is just 'no set price,' so it can eat stacks of gold. I mean there's not that many mats in the game. Def not as many as were during the mine phase of MO1. Everyone isn't wearing steel.
 
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Stupid gold amounts are one cause of the economy being 'weird,' but if people were playing and properly demanding, consuming, then it wouldn't be so bad. I don't care what stacks people are holding or what hand shake deals are going on, I mainly base my economic ideas on brokers.

I do honestly think Trinkets and Flux have caused a big problem. Before, it was just people having gold to do w/e with, but now they can get invaluable trinkets. I was reading Heretic talk about mining, and I mean... imagine getting gems that the guys in town could put in your trinkets, change their tier (only +, so people couldn't like... unroll-reroll,) and gen new stats. Not changing from cup to silver, but like... increase gems, add in gems do crush results. Trinkets are such a huge commodity that I believe they are kind of running (I won't say ruining!) the economy, in a way. Thus, one thing we need in the absence of more people to consume is more ways to alter trinkets and more way for different actions to pick up items that modify trinkets because, apparently, that is big biz.

It makes you wonder ( lol not an economist, I just am an economic voyeur,) if in general adding MORE MATS (as in base quantities) to the game would help balance out the gold. Atm tho, not much TC stuff, trinkets... what else is there to spend money on. Capes? :eek:

The economy is bad, but it seems like it's going beyond that and affecting the game as a whole, and not just in a 'I can't play a game w/ a trash ass economy!' sort of way. There are things that are obviously incentivized to do, and then there are things that are not really worth it. It should not be that way. Blood, sweat, tears.. that should get you somewhere; that shit is what the economy is based on, base level brute work.

I can ride around and MA people, kill shit... y'know, and as I told other people, I'm not SUPER MAD, so I don't care that much, but definitely it affects my play time that the game is falling into ruins more and more as a functional system. As for systems, I think I understand them better than 'the one system' of economics. Meta-systems... oke.
Hi what ever this is... doesn't not will not matter, because your question IS, How do you fix economy, with cheaters, botters, exploiters, dupers. Greed exists, people do not care enough about society, to actually curb that greed, also lazy. Have a nice day
 

ElPerro

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Jun 9, 2020
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Territory control and siege mechanics inspire long-term and destructive conflict, that rapidly consumes gold and materials.
That is also when the actual effects of all this surplus gold will be felt the most. People will wonder why some guilds are able to siege 24/7 and roll out with a full crew in oghmium wearing 20k trinkets. And if theres NPC guards (like Henrique has said multiple times) then its gonna be even worse since these guilds will be unsiegable.
 
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Ichorous

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May 28, 2020
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That is also when the actual effects of all this surplus gold will be felt the most. People will wonder why some guilds are able to siege 24/7 and roll out with a full crew in oghmium wearing 20k trinkets. And if theres NPC guards (like Henrique has said multiple times) then its gonna be even worse since these guilds will be unsiegable.
Taking advantage of temporary situations to reap windfall profits won't create an enduring advantage after that temporary situation changes. The surplus just gives them a head start, and they will need to adapt to maintain economic advantage.

Remember, there is always economic inequality in an MMO. It doesn't mean the tables can't be turned. Veteran players will always have more assets than new players. Players who focus on asset collection will always have more assets than players who do not.
 

serge

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Dec 22, 2021
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If SV does not wipe when they introduce TC I dunno what they thinking lol I like to think they will make the right decision and wipe when they introduce TC regardless of what Henrik has been saying. Of course he can't just flat out say "We are gonna wipe with TC" being that TC is most likely still a year away.
 

Gnidex

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Feb 2, 2022
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They messed up bad by not thinking it through and making trinkets a dropped item to begin with.

Trinkets should have been a craftable item with random properties rolled on each craft. This would then serve as a massive material sink, helping with the resource market. Gold inflation by itself wouldn't be that much of an issue if the mob drops and vendor prices would also be adjusted by the inflation rate dynamically. Then we'd just have a case of "zimbabwe dollars" but it wouldn't affect people's playstyles since you'd also earn more.

Additionally, to add resource sinks, when people die there should be a chance that some items would be destroyed on death, just like Eve Online does it. That would help a tiny bit to stimulate the armor market since that's been stagnant soon after launch.
 
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actetto

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Apr 21, 2022
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Every economy breaks. Every game will always have hackers, dupers, botters, etc.

The realistic goal for SV should be that the game is fun whether you are rich or poor. There will always be people who do anything to get rich or "win" in the game. If it gets so bad that the average player can't accomplish anything or have any fun because every NPC is camped by an army of Tungsteel clad auto-bots...for example... then the game is too unfair and people won't play.

Every game and IRL economy has eventually become so unfair that it collapsed. But SV wiping the game is not the answer. It would change nothing, the same people would hop back on and zerg/nolife/cheat/bot back to the top.