Haven in MO2

How to prevent farming in Haven?

  • You can not take any items from Haven to Myrland.

    Votes: 5 22.7%
  • SV will assign all items a fictional value and you can only take a small amount of that value.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • You can only take CRAFTED items and coins of X value.

    Votes: 1 4.5%
  • No restriction, let the pay to win begin.

    Votes: 7 31.8%
  • Only raw materials.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Severely restrict skills available on Haven, so that farming there is a pain. (might be ineffective)

    Votes: 2 9.1%
  • No trading allowed on Haven.

    Votes: 1 4.5%
  • None of the above, other, please post.

    Votes: 4 18.2%
  • Restrict spawn ons Haven to the first created character on any account

    Votes: 2 9.1%
  • Severely restrict farming rate on Haven

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    22

Eldrath

Well-known member
SV will put in restrictions to make Haven unattractive for veteran farming. Which should those be?

Haven is supposed to be an noobie island in which you can learn the game in complete safety. So no thievery or ganking. Which means that farming there is much more efficient, since you cannot loose any progress. As the past has shown players will prefer safety over speed. So without action Haven will be THE place to farm low-tier materials to then transport them to the mainland to turn into profits without risk. For obvious reasons this is not a good thing for full loot PvP game with a player run economy.

I would like to hear suggestions on how to:

A. Prevent farming in Haven
B. Still provide new players with a meaningful experience.
- They should be able to take some stuff to Myrland as a reward.

I won´t debate on the fact that any farming done in complete safety (safezones) is bad for a game like Mortal Online 2. To me it´s selfevident and I spend countless years debating it. Gets tiring. For the purpose of this thread lets assume that it is.
 

Dracu

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2020
240
254
63
Germany
Hmm.... whats the issue, if low material mats will be farmable safe and people do exactly that, the prices will go down for low end matierals.
While the one in myrland can farm gold to purchase these cheap low end mats easily and mroe efficiently with a bit risk yeah.
I see no isse with it tbh.

But it has to be low end mats only in Haven.
 

Kameyo

New member
Aug 14, 2020
3
3
3
Haven in the old game came way to late and provided no benefit to player retention. Will Haven even be ready at launch, I doubt it. And if it is, nothing should carry over. Those who need it are there to learn the game in safety and move on.

The current Haven could have been steel factory. Fill your bank with blood ore transfer it to a FTP and process the rest in Tindrem. And stacks of messing could be made in near total safety. If it can be exploited it will be.
 
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barcode

Active member
Jun 2, 2020
204
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imo haven should be a proper tutorial area with some free to explore territory connected to it. players should be able to return to the tutorial area at any time via a 'tutorial' button from the login menu, so people who skipped the tutorial at the start and didnt know how to play, or if you didnt do some parts of the tutorial and need to go check it out, or if a vet takes a hiatus and wants to come back and see the new systems or refresh their memory on old ones, they can always go back and go thru the tutorial sections.

tutorial sections would provide all the skills, gear, and mats you need but none of that will persist outside of the tutorial area. you bring nothing with you, and take nothing out from the tutorial save knowledge.

oh and a major (and i think required) part of the tutorial should be teaching new players HOW TO RECOUP AFTER LOSING EVERYTHING. its quite likely that most new players will only have experience with other MMOs like wow where you dont have full loot happening, and may have a hard time adjusting to concepts like 'only bring stuff with you that you can afford to lose'.

for people who want to bring mats, what tier is granum (or any other basic ore)? it seems a low level ore but with the proper skills can become a high level material. theres no reason to let this pollute the economy. no, players should only keep the gear they have equipped and perhaps a limited bit of coin to get started. they can always head back to the tutorial if they dont know how to mine or skin or etc.

-barcode
 

Zequron

New member
Jul 13, 2020
9
3
3
If the materials that are allowed to be farmed are of very low quality, then I don't see the problem with just letting anyone stay, farm and leave with it all.
 

Eldrath

Well-known member
Hmm.... whats the issue, if low material mats will be farmable safe and people do exactly that, the prices will go down for low end matierals.
While the one in myrland can farm gold to purchase these cheap low end mats easily and mroe efficiently with a bit risk yeah.
I see no isse with it tbh.

But it has to be low end mats only in Haven.
If the materials that are allowed to be farmed are of very low quality, then I don't see the problem with just letting anyone stay, farm and leave with it all.
Granum is low end. If you process it fully you will eventually reach steel and tungsteel. A bank full of waterstone is actually worth quite a lot. So, unless you make Haven a complete shit hole this will not work. Haven being a shit hole does not teach how the game works though.

If you want to teach someone how to make messing you will have to provide them with what they need to do that. If you do that veterans with multiple accounts will make messing in Haven. This is why there needs to be limits on what can brought over.

The other option would be the "we provided you with 10 stacks of granum to process. Be mindful that they will vanish at the end of the tutorial" kinda option. Which would be fine as well.
 
Last edited:

Amadman

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
204
275
63
A padded room.
All they really have to do is make it where there are many better options in the real world than there is in Haven.

Then experienced players would feel they would be wasting their time in haven. Especially if they have to go through the trouble of dealing with new accounts all the time just to be able to do so.

Personally I think having some permanent vets on the island would be a good thing though. Sure the ones that are causing trouble should be shipped off. But friendly players that know the game would be good for the island.

So for example, guilds could have recruiters on the island that help new players and provide an introduction to their guild. Yes, they could potentially try to use these new players as pack mules. But that would be a way to get those new players involved with a guild so they would have a helping hand off the island as well.

If actually joining the guild was not an option until after leaving the island then there would also be the risk of the player double crossing the guild and just keeping said items for themselves once they left the island. A head start of a different kind.
 
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Zbuciorn

Active member
Jun 3, 2020
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All they really have to do is make it where there are many better options in the real world than there is in Haven.


So for example, guilds could have recruiters on the island that help new players and provide an introduction to their guild. Yes, they could potentially try to use these new players as pack mules. But that would be a way to get those new players involved with a guild so they would have a helping hand off the island as well.

If actually joining the guild was not an option until after leaving the island then there would also be the risk of the player double crossing the guild and just keeping said items for themselves once they left the island. A head start of a different kind.
Not being able to join guilds in Haven could be very good way to make players want to leave it rather soon and limiting amount of gold you can take with you will be needed to prevent exploits.
 

Zbuciorn

Active member
Jun 3, 2020
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I think that most of Mo1 veterans would like to be able to skip it straight to main world and I hope players will not be forced to start in Haven.
 
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Xunila

Active member
May 28, 2020
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Germany
I think there are some misunderstandings: Some guy wrote about transfer with a f2p character. There will be not ftp in MO2. You have to play with a subscribed Steam account. Means, players would have to recreate their character after each transfer, or pay for a "just for transfer" account.
Second, there are no good catalysts in Haven, no Bore, no Coal, no Coke. All you could do is to extract Blood Ore for transfer.

Do you really think there would a be a noticeable number of players working this way to get Blood Ore to Tindrem? Isn't this a heavy discussion about a theoretical play style?

Of cause the transfer guy in Haven could restrict the transfer to the stuff in inventory, to the current horse and the stuff in the bags. But to arrive naked in Tindrem?

Any btw I would not call it "No restriction, let the pay to win begin."
 

Rhias

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
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I highly doubt that anyone will chreate(&pay) additional accounts just to have 1 character in Haven to farm there. And then delete the character after reaching Tindrem, create a new one in Haven and reskilling him up again.

Maybe SV could track what was taken over to Myrland and only do something in case it really get abused.

Maybe make it that recreated characters on old account will no longer spawn in haven or something alike.
 

Xunila

Active member
May 28, 2020
220
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Germany
Another option for your list:

Restrict respawn of deleted character to Haven to two or three times. Then such transfer players would have to buy a new account for 40 or 50 Euro after some transfers.
 

Speznat

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
386
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Granum is low end. If you process it fully you will eventually reach steel and tungsteel. A bank full of waterstone is actually worth quite a lot. So, unless you make Haven a complete shit hole this will not work. Haven being a shit hole does not teach how the game works though.

If you want to teach someone how to make messing you will have to provide them with what they need to do that. If you do that veterans with multiple accounts will make messing in Haven. This is why there needs to be limits on what can brought over.

The other option would be the "we provided you with 10 stacks of granum to process. Be mindful that they will vanish at the end of the tutorial" kinda option. Which would be fine as well.
you cant reach steel without calx/coal that is not available in heaven so stop talking BS thx.

ok for next time, First gather information, and than post stuff wich is not based on assumptions and based on facts. and if you are not sure, than write like, i believe its like, or if this possible than this.

anyway party hart:
 

Ibarruri

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
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high market value materials are not present in haven. However, it is true that it is never a good thing that there are areas that are too safe to farm, but perhaps it is not a bad idea that there is a small space where the noobs can do some work without being exposed to the inevitable massacre that awaits them in Myrland.
 
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chingaperros

Well-known member
Jun 9, 2020
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Another option for your list:

Restrict respawn of deleted character to Haven to two or three times. Then such transfer players would have to buy a new account for 40 or 50 Euro after some transfers.
Id say reduce that to one time. Then you need to buy another acc.

you cant reach steel without calx/coal that is not available in heaven so stop talking BS thx.

ok for next time, First gather information, and than post stuff wich is not based on assumptions and based on facts. and if you are not sure, than write like, i believe its like, or if this possible than this.

anyway party hart:
You can transfer the blood ore and then process it on Myrland...?‍♂
 
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Eldrath

Well-known member
you cant reach steel without calx/coal that is not available in heaven so stop talking BS thx.

ok for next time, First gather information, and than post stuff wich is not based on assumptions and based on facts. and if you are not sure, than write like, i believe its like, or if this possible than this.
Up to steel means the products you need to make steel. If I transfer a bank full of blood ore that is worth quite a lot. Also you are assuming that the resources on Haven are gonna stay the same. They might not stay the same at all.


As for the "cost" of doing this. It does depend heavily on how many characters you are allowed to create on Haven. Skilling a character for mining and producing blood ore is actually pretty fast - done it a few times. Even if you have to buy a few accounts that´s hardly gonna stop people. Player have bought accounts for afk farming in the past with subscription. F2P just made that easier (once the log in restriction was gone). Once you reach an arms race other players will start doing the same.

People pour insane amounts of real currency into games. I´m fine with someone having an afk bot in Myrland, because he will get killed and looted. The same cannot be said for Haven. There lies the crucial difference between a safezone and proper game design. It´s also a thing that takes care of chinese gold farmers.
Why is there so much focus on preventing players from doing this and that?
We already played prevention online and it wasn’t good.


I think there are some misunderstandings: Some guy wrote about transfer with a f2p character. There will be not ftp in MO2. You have to play with a subscribed Steam account. Means, players would have to recreate their character after each transfer, or pay for a "just for transfer" account.
Second, there are no good catalysts in Haven, no Bore, no Coal, no Coke. All you could do is to extract Blood Ore for transfer.

Do you really think there would a be a noticeable number of players working this way to get Blood Ore to Tindrem? Isn't this a heavy discussion about a theoretical play style?

Of cause the transfer guy in Haven could restrict the transfer to the stuff in inventory, to the current horse and the stuff in the bags. But to arrive naked in Tindrem?

Any btw I would not call it "No restriction, let the pay to win begin."
It´s not a playstyle, it´s a method of gathering resources without risk. Obviously player would have a second account doing it. Then you transfer the materials to Myrland (in the Q&A it was mentioned that it would not only be Tindrem - so it might be free transport as well) and process them on your main account. This would be one example of how to exploit this.

The "heavy" discussion is about how to prevent exploitation and improve the new players experience. Don´t really see why that is controversial. I think it´s funny that you are saying it´s stupid but at the same time giving suggestions on how to fix it.
 
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Ibarruri

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
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is a serious question, but i not sure how solve it. ¿Maybe not allow transfer Haven stuff to Myrland?
 

KermyWormy

Active member
May 29, 2020
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The most simple and effective solution for this small "potential" issue of abusing Haven's safety to farm and import material to Myrland where the real game is played has already been mentioned by multiple concerned citizens; Only your first character created on an account can start there. Any time you delete and reroll you start in your racial starting city on the mainland. easy peasy. That should appease nearly all parties.

The only other kind of customer service issue to maybe build on top of this is that in the case of an incredibly obtuse but legitimate new player leaving the island before they're ready and needing to reroll and start over, they can appeal via ticket so they can start another character there, one time only. This way for this rare case they can still get that mulligan, but SV will have a targeted way to see what's going on on the account and in less than 5 minutes be able to determine if it's a legitimate case of the dumb dumbs or someone trying to exploit the system.

I think the hard rule of no access after original character is great, it probably takes care of 98% of use cases, having the 2nd chance via ticket and appeal is only to pickup that last 2% of very "special" player who can't read or gets somehow tricked into leaving before they're legitimately ready. Their money spends the same as everyone elses, so having a way to service their needs in this small case seems ok to me and wouldn't require much resources to meet from SV's end.
 

BleckCat

New member
Jul 17, 2020
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I think something along the lines of giving someone a set amount of resources, but not having anything from haven transfer over would be best. Youre a miner? Heres your 2 picks and some starting books when you appear in Myrland