Crushing

Eldrath

Well-known member
Why? 5 minutes per stack seems extreme, and to what end? What is the point for such a large afk time sink?

What´s the point of any time sink? What´s the point of any timer? Why is not everything instant gratification?

Why can you run multiple machines at the same time? Why does the materials spawn instead of just vanish? Why are most extraction machines outside of the guardzone?
 
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Eldrath

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Yes, afk timers are kinda meh..
But I guess mining/extraction really needs the timesink.

A different approach could be to lower the timers for extraction, but also decrease the ore-yield per mining node to force the miner to move around more to "fill up", making mining take longer instead.

So the miners would spend more time actively mining and looking for nodes, and less time semi afk waiting out timers.
So, more active gameplay, but the total time to get to the end product could be about the same, if balanced properly.

Could be a dumb idea for reasons I havn't thought about. Opinions?
Mining, extraction are things that work well for players with a relaxed and management oriented playstyle.

What exactly would happen if you reduced the timer to say, 30 seconds for a stack of granum? It would be much too short to do anything else (like gathering, mining more, woodchopping, dueling, keeping a look out, feeding the horse, roleplaying) and you would just constantly shovel stacks into the machine. How is that better game play?

Now you got a point with mining. If timers go down you would have to lower mining yields because otherwise the metal economy would altered. Personally I don´t see how mining is much better than extraction. It´s very mono dimentional and you can´t do anything else in-game while doing it.

People use "active" as if extraction is passive. I almost never went afk when extracting, but then I did not do it behind walls. With safe zones timers are truly pointless.
 

Rorry

Well-known member
May 30, 2020
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Where did you do all these things? In a town with guards? How many stacks did you do?


Edit: added.
 

Eldrath

Well-known member
Cave camp, Morin Khur and Meduli mostly. Depends on what time we are talking about. Had a nice store of sea dew, nymph herb, bor etc. and slag hauler duels were hilarious.

Obviously if you build your slag hauler with 10 dex it might be pain. But then that was your choice.

Now with 1 character you can do even more stuff since you won´t have to sacrifice action skills for extraction.
 

Waalan

New member
May 28, 2020
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Fabernum
IMO features that are afk timesinks should be avoided. We don't need our playerbase to hide and go afk for long periods of time while extracting.

We want players to move around the map to make the world feel more alive.

The only exception to this is when extracting high tier ores in special appliances (e.g. GN or b.furnace). Using these appliances should leave you exposed, as you are right now, creating sort of hotspots for ganks etc.
 
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Dracu

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Jul 13, 2020
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5 Minutes per stack is a bit ludicrous... the idea i guess behind those timers if to give extractors a bit of a scare when extracting...
This in theory is okay... But
The issue is that the most exxtraction is done in safezones... there is no "scare". So there it becomes just a timer waster.
I personally would like to see a decrease by atleast 5-10 times its current time. Waiting is not gameplay.
 
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Rorry

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May 30, 2020
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Cave camp, Morin Khur and Meduli mostly. Depends on what time we are talking about. Had a nice store of sea dew, nymph herb, bor etc. and slag hauler duels were hilarious.

Obviously if you build your slag hauler with 10 dex it might be pain. But then that was your choice.

Now with 1 character you can do even more stuff since you won´t have to sacrifice action skills for extraction.
Please remember, with only 1 character even fewer people will be able to extract next to guards, and who knows, maybe won't be able to crush from the bank in CC anymore. Maybe there will be actual big risk, or people will just build a house and extract in safety. Either way the long timer is a poor mechanic.
 

Waalan

New member
May 28, 2020
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Fabernum
If the problem is safe zones, move machines out of safe zones?
Having all appliances out of safe zones would potentially be really hard for new players trying to start extraction.

I could see the value of having buffed appliances out in the wild which gives extra yield for players who are able to actually defend themselves against gankers. While keeping "normal" non buffed appliances in safe zones.

This would create natural hotspots, while at the same time allowing new players to get into extraction without being constantly ganked.

Regardless, I think having afk timers for actions made in safe zones is not good for the game.
 
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Eldrath

Well-known member
Please remember, with only 1 character even fewer people will be able to extract next to guards, and who knows, maybe won't be able to crush from the bank in CC anymore. Maybe there will be actual big risk, or people will just build a house and extract in safety. Either way the long timer is a poor mechanic.
The only reason the long timer exists is to have risk. The mechanic was introduced before they even though about portable devices that you can plop down in houses. Even then for the really good stuff you had to go to GK or CC. Of course with TC even that concept went to shit.

Timers exist to keep your character in danger. They exist so that you have to constantly look over your shoulder. They exist so looters can walk around machines and steal your shit.

Timers are a great mechanic. If your character was locked in the grinder for 10 minutes, without being able to do anything I would agree. That´s not how it works though. Even if many non-creative players have choosen to play that way.

Regardless, I think having afk timers for actions made in safe zones is not good for the game.
Agreed. When done in a safe zone the thing becomes rather pointless. Hopefully there won´t be safe zones such as TC walls again.

Cause people killed plenty of afk extractors when it´s just guards protecting them.

The best appliances should remain in the wild, or semi wild.
 
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barcode

Active member
Jun 2, 2020
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timers should be adjusted to match the level of extraction

basic extraction from generic ores (granum, saburra, gabore, tephra) should be very quick, similar to butchery probably

there is little value there to either lose or gain, and it takes an insane amount of time to do for creation of generic steel. Time on these has already been spent vulnerable during mining, so i see no real issue in making basic extraction relatively fast.

intermediate extraction should take time similar to now, and advanced extraction maybe increased time along with a giant beacon or something letting people in the area know someone is using the blast furnace or g.nat (or thaumater if/when it gets implemented)

-barcode
 
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Eldrath

Well-known member
timers should be adjusted to match the level of extraction

basic extraction from generic ores (granum, saburra, gabore, tephra) should be very quick, similar to butchery probably

there is little value there to either lose or gain, and it takes an insane amount of time to do for creation of generic steel. Time on these has already been spent vulnerable during mining, so i see no real issue in making basic extraction relatively fast.

intermediate extraction should take time similar to now, and advanced extraction maybe increased time along with a giant beacon or something letting people in the area know someone is using the blast furnace or g.nat (or thaumater if/when it gets implemented)

-barcode
I would take a 10 minute timer that lets me move around and run 3 machines at once over standing at a fucking table unable to move away for 1 minute any day of the week. There should be difference between butchery and extraction.

Maybe flexible timers are the way to go. Longer run times give you a better yield per stack.
 

Grasthard

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Nov 21, 2020
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if you process 5k stacks, you have around enough time to mine a new 5k stack (if rocks are nearby) when the first stack has finished extracting.
 
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Rorry

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May 30, 2020
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The only reason the long timer exists is to have risk. The mechanic was introduced before they even though about portable devices that you can plop down in houses. Even then for the really good stuff you had to go to GK or CC. Of course with TC even that concept went to shit.

Timers exist to keep your character in danger. They exist so that you have to constantly look over your shoulder. They exist so looters can walk around machines and steal your shit.

Timers are a great mechanic. If your character was locked in the grinder for 10 minutes, without being able to do anything I would agree. That´s not how it works though. Even if many non-creative players have choosen to play that way.



Agreed. When done in a safe zone the thing becomes rather pointless. Hopefully there won´t be safe zones such as TC walls again.

Cause people killed plenty of afk extractors when it´s just guards protecting them.

The best appliances should remain in the wild, or semi wild.
All three of the places you mentioned are safe zones, 2 with guards, 1 where you can keep your stuff in a bank while you extract.
Also, for a long time a fully skilled extractor had to be obese and still had not enough points to mine so maybe you were playing a hybrid or half character?