Combat observations

Kobalt

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Aug 29, 2020
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  1. Turtling is too strong; there is little cost to blocking/parrying attack, no recovery time inbetween blocks / parrying. Other games handle this by having holding block/parry deplete stamina and every attack blocked/parried has an initial cost attached to it.
  2. Turn-flicking / ballerina / turn abuse is an unfortunately result/solution. Not only does it look terrible it obfuscate combat. If an opponent is attacking you from the left or right, overhead, thrust it should be clear as day. There shouldn't be away to game the system.
  3. As a player from north america, my ping averages ~180-200ms to the server (located in europe). This is noticeable and in some situations extremely debilitating; it pretty much ruins the game play experience for myself and anyone who has similar ping connecting from the west coast. My understanding is it's not better from east coast either. Getting hit from 5-10 meters away from other melees is pretty much a deal breaker.
MO1 was an extreme jank fest, and I hope MO2 won't go down the same road.
 
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Teknique

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Jun 15, 2020
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  1. Turtling is too strong; there is little cost to blocking/parrying attack, no recovery time inbetween blocks / parrying. Other games handle this by having holding block/parry deplete stamina and every attack blocked/parried has an initial cost attached to it.
  2. Turn-flicking / ballerina / turn abuse is an unfortunately result/solution. Not only does it look terrible it obfuscate combat. If an opponent is attacking you from the left or right, overhead, thrust it should be clear as day. There shouldn't be away to game the system.
  3. As a player from north america, my ping averages ~180-200ms to the server (located in europe). This is noticeable and in some situations extremely debilitating; it pretty much ruins the game play experience for myself and anyone who has similar ping connecting from the west coast. My understanding is it's not better from east coast either. Getting hit from 5-10 meters away from other melees is pretty much a deal breaker.
MO1 was an extreme jank fest, and I hope MO2 won't go down the same road.
They should be "addressing" these "issues" as soon as tomorrow.

I can't understand how you think a swing should be clear as day, sounds noob

Ping sux needs to be fixed.
 
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Livingshade

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Jul 4, 2020
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OF COURSE TURTLING IS STRONG, if someone focus 100% of their BRAIN to pure BLOCKING they should be INVINCIBLE unless they are so bad... the 720 degree mlg turns i agree is a little boongie
 

Kobalt

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Aug 29, 2020
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They should be "addressing" these "issues" as soon as tomorrow.

I can't understand how you think a swing should be clear as day, sounds noob

Ping sux needs to be fixed.
I'm a UX developer, and from a developer's perspective you generally want the user experience to be as clean, transparent and intuitive as possible. A lot of this translates to other aspects of game development. Generally you want combat to convey things crystal clear. This can be done with audio and/or visual cues. With directional combat it's that much more important that the attacks are conveyed in a obviously and transparent manner. There should be no way to "game" the system. For instance being able to instantly transition between attack and parry right now is an issue that needs to be resolved. Being able to "glitch" out your attack direction by abusing turning is another issue that you wouldn't necessarily want in your game as it's 1) not intended, 2) confusing for the end user and 3) it looks embarrassingly bad. It might not be as wide spread an issue at the moment, but if it's found to be the prefered way to abuse combat, you can't expect a lot of proliferation within the player base making the combat look comical.

OF COURSE TURTLING IS STRONG, if someone focus 100% of their BRAIN to pure BLOCKING they should be INVINCIBLE unless they are so bad... the 720 degree mlg turns i agree is a little boongie
There should be a game play mechanic that either limits or punishes this behavior. You an do it with depleting resources, you can do it with a crush mechanic. Either way, right now the way to deal with it is abusing prediction and turn which from a developer's perspective seems incredibly obtuse. Put it this way, if there's a mechanic that requires you (the player) to game the system in order to beat, clearly there's something wrong there.

I don't know about, but I would like blocking / parrying to be a lot more intelligent and some decision making thrown into it besides "hold this button and move in the direction of the swing". Add incentives for players to not just hold down a button; a crush mechanic might be a good example of this.
 
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Rorry

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May 30, 2020
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Kansas
I wonder if it would work to let some damage occur even through the parry? The (earned) reward for skill in blocking would be less, and the (un-earned) reward for good ping would also be less.
 

Eldrath

Active member
I wonder if it would work to let some damage occur even through the parry? The (earned) reward for skill in blocking would be less, and the (un-earned) reward for good ping would also be less.
Meh, when that happened in MO1 no one would parry anymore and it buffed mounted combat characters. I feel like having ways around a parry is more rewarding than making parries suck so hard no one will use them in competetive play.
 
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Teknique

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Jun 15, 2020
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I'm a UX developer, and from a developer's perspective you generally want the user experience to be as clean, transparent and intuitive as possible. A lot of this translates to other aspects of game development. Generally you want combat to convey things crystal clear. This can be done with audio and/or visual cues. With directional combat it's that much more important that the attacks are conveyed in a obviously and transparent manner. There should be no way to "game" the system. For instance being able to instantly transition between attack and parry right now is an issue that needs to be resolved. Being able to "glitch" out your attack direction by abusing turning is another issue that you wouldn't necessarily want in your game as it's 1) not intended, 2) confusing for the end user and 3) it looks embarrassingly bad. It might not be as wide spread an issue at the moment, but if it's found to be the prefered way to abuse combat, you can't expect a lot of proliferation within the player base making the combat look comical.


There should be a game play mechanic that either limits or punishes this behavior. You an do it with depleting resources, you can do it with a crush mechanic. Either way, right now the way to deal with it is abusing prediction and turn which from a developer's perspective seems incredibly obtuse. Put it this way, if there's a mechanic that requires you (the player) to game the system in order to beat, clearly there's something wrong there.

I don't know about, but I would like blocking / parrying to be a lot more intelligent and some decision making thrown into it besides "hold this button and move in the direction of the swing". Add incentives for players to not just hold down a button; a crush mechanic might be a good example of this.
You call it gaming the system, I see it as pretty straight forward and intuitive as is. Ah he did something to throw off my timing. This is very very common in most skill based games especially first person ones. I really see it as no different than engaging on a flash bang which is something players with much better fundamentals than me struggle to do. You can see it right at the start here

 
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Rorry

Member
May 30, 2020
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Kansas
Meh, when that happened in MO1 no one would parry anymore and it buffed mounted combat characters. I feel like having ways around a parry is more rewarding than making parries suck so hard no one will use them in competetive play.
I forgot about the mounted combats.
 

Livingshade

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Jul 4, 2020
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I'm a UX developer, and from a developer's perspective you generally want the user experience to be as clean, transparent and intuitive as possible. A lot of this translates to other aspects of game development. Generally you want combat to convey things crystal clear. This can be done with audio and/or visual cues. With directional combat it's that much more important that the attacks are conveyed in a obviously and transparent manner. There should be no way to "game" the system. For instance being able to instantly transition between attack and parry right now is an issue that needs to be resolved. Being able to "glitch" out your attack direction by abusing turning is another issue that you wouldn't necessarily want in your game as it's 1) not intended, 2) confusing for the end user and 3) it looks embarrassingly bad. It might not be as wide spread an issue at the moment, but if it's found to be the prefered way to abuse combat, you can't expect a lot of proliferation within the player base making the combat look comical.


There should be a game play mechanic that either limits or punishes this behavior. You an do it with depleting resources, you can do it with a crush mechanic. Either way, right now the way to deal with it is abusing prediction and turn which from a developer's perspective seems incredibly obtuse. Put it this way, if there's a mechanic that requires you (the player) to game the system in order to beat, clearly there's something wrong there.

I don't know about, but I would like blocking / parrying to be a lot more intelligent and some decision making thrown into it besides "hold this button and move in the direction of the swing". Add incentives for players to not just hold down a button; a crush mechanic might be a good example of this.
you are completely wrong. in real LIFE if you try BLOCKING 100% of the time then you can stay alive in this game why should people who block be PUNISHED for doing something thats normally right it makes absolutely no sense mate
 

Kobalt

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Aug 29, 2020
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you are completely wrong. in real LIFE if you try BLOCKING 100% of the time then you can stay alive in this game why should people who block be PUNISHED for doing something thats normally right it makes absolutely no sense mate
The mechanic of blocking is fine, but infinite blocking from a gaming playing perspective is problematic if there is no mechanic in place to deal with it. In real life a person wouldn't be able to block every single attack ad infinitum; a persons endurance is finite.
 

Eldrath

Active member
The mechanic of blocking is fine, but infinite blocking from a gaming playing perspective is problematic if there is no mechanic in place to deal with it. In real life a person wouldn't be able to block every single attack ad infinitum; a persons endurance is finite.
Yeah, but the same goes for the attackers. Most likely it would end up in a stalemate. Which is fine by me for a game, but others always want a decisive engagement.
 
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Livingshade

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The mechanic of blocking is fine, but infinite blocking from a gaming playing perspective is problematic if there is no mechanic in place to deal with it. In real life a person wouldn't be able to block every single attack ad infinitum; a persons endurance is finite.
is not true mate
 

PANDAHSYKES

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Jun 3, 2020
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I feel like the die hard dunk-nerds here will not want ANY changes to the combat system, but playing with like 20 of these nerds (henrik included) i can tell you that EU players not only have to be turtled to be defeated , but that the ping is so bad that peoples swords are ending 2 feet in front of me and still hitting me.

I know everyone wants to push the game along as fast as possible, but lets make sure its a clean combat system and doesnt have janky combat like mo1 (we all loved the combat but lets admit that we had to CHEESE a lot to be in the meta). Turning your back on an opponent mid fight is a stupid thing to do IRL in real combat, i would like to see the ballerina turns mitigated as much as possible but i really dont think turtling is hurting , if anything it HELPS the combats SHIT ping situation (henrik, if you have any sense you would create a NA east server location , its more central to the majority of MO1 players and of course it would be more central to MO2 players).
 

Teknique

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Jun 15, 2020
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I feel like the die hard dunk-nerds here will not want ANY changes to the combat system, but playing with like 20 of these nerds (henrik included) i can tell you that EU players not only have to be turtled to be defeated , but that the ping is so bad that peoples swords are ending 2 feet in front of me and still hitting me.

I know everyone wants to push the game along as fast as possible, but lets make sure its a clean combat system and doesnt have janky combat like mo1 (we all loved the combat but lets admit that we had to CHEESE a lot to be in the meta). Turning your back on an opponent mid fight is a stupid thing to do IRL in real combat, i would like to see the ballerina turns mitigated as much as possible but i really dont think turtling is hurting , if anything it HELPS the combats SHIT ping situation (henrik, if you have any sense you would create a NA east server location , its more central to the majority of MO1 players and of course it would be more central to MO2 players).
Don’t worry you’ll get your wish of turning around to be too overpowered. Lord slammington has foretold it.
 

Sarevok

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Sep 4, 2020
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Anyone in here played Mordhau? If they could take their combat mechanics and make it their own I think they'd be going in a good direction.
 

Rolufe

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Jun 1, 2020
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I feel like the die hard dunk-nerds here will not want ANY changes to the combat system, but playing with like 20 of these nerds (henrik included) i can tell you that EU players not only have to be turtled to be defeated , but that the ping is so bad that peoples swords are ending 2 feet in front of me and still hitting me.

I know everyone wants to push the game along as fast as possible, but lets make sure its a clean combat system and doesnt have janky combat like mo1 (we all loved the combat but lets admit that we had to CHEESE a lot to be in the meta). Turning your back on an opponent mid fight is a stupid thing to do IRL in real combat, i would like to see the ballerina turns mitigated as much as possible but i really dont think turtling is hurting , if anything it HELPS the combats SHIT ping situation (henrik, if you have any sense you would create a NA east server location , its more central to the majority of MO1 players and of course it would be more central to MO2 players).
Its not more Central as majority of the players are EU based and putting the server in America would make it even worse for the EU, Australians Russians and the middle east. Also your not really getting it much better placing the server in NA as everyone else would get worse ping and so the jankyness would be even worse. People would hit you from even further away and with even more delay. You should try to fight a Australian sometime and you will see what i mean. Only way to get ridd of it would be local servers like Mordhau or any other shooter style game. Another possibility would be to utilize something like Elon Musks Starlink. But from what i hear its gonna be a limited network of satellites. So games might not be allowed to pass data trough it.
 
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Rolufe

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Anyone in here played Mordhau? If they could take their combat mechanics and make it their own I think they'd be going in a good direction.
They have pretty much done that as far as it is possible without being too broken. I also like the combat in Mordhau, but it requires lower latency to work. You might have noticed playing Mordhau if your ping goes over 80 its very janky and if you pass 100 its so bad you just wanna close the game, cuz you can no longer see the enemies attacks and your own screen is laggy and delayed. In MO atleast you can still play you dont really get the lag its still fluent on your PC. While you cant see the swing but you see them charging it and you can predict it landing, so your still able to parry and fight them decently. Mordhau just dont allow the fluent gameplay with high ping.
 
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Sarevok

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They have pretty much done that as far as it is possible without being too broken. I also like the combat in Mordhau, but it requires lower latency to work. You might have noticed playing Mordhau if your ping goes over 80 its very janky and if you pass 100 its so bad you just wanna close the game, cuz you can no longer see the enemies attacks and your own screen is laggy and delayed. In MO atleast you can still play you dont really get the lag its still fluent on your PC. While you cant see the swing but you see them charging it and you can predict it landing, so your still able to parry and fight them decently. Mordhau just dont allow the fluent gameplay with high ping.
Can you feint, morph, accel, drag, riposte and chamber attacks?
 

Rolufe

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Jun 1, 2020
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Can you feint, morph, accel, drag, riposte and chamber attacks?
Atm you can feint by canceling your swing, you can accelerate swings and drag its basically the same thing. Morphs and riposte would be possible i think but isnt currently in game. Chances are Morphs and riposte would mess with attack animations not showing. Chambering would be to depending on latency so would probably work for EU players vs EU players and probably also EU vs NA east coast but not EU vs Austrailia or EU vs west NA.
 
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