Clade Gifts - My Next Spreadsheet Project

Kaemik

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Nov 28, 2020
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As many of you may already know. I want to map out all the data relevant to a new player making a character and create a comprehensive video+text guide on it. I believe this will help many newbs deal with the frustration of coming in and choosing a race that's non-viable for the type of build they want to play.

With Psyche and Int mapped out well enough until the upcoming INT curve change, the next subject I want to call attention to is clade gifts. This is my initial testing into the subject:

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One thing worth noting is unlike the previous testing the average was found by averaging the minimum and maximum as opposed to every test. This seems to have far less room for error which is how we have such clean numbers this time.

So I'm just going to say based on this....

you-gotta-pump-those-numbers-up-those-are-rookie-numbers-30070070.png


You're averaging like 10 more health per 10 minutes from the health steal if you do 100 damage to your opponent during the 10-second window. 6 health per minute on regeneration? I'm glad the heal debuff doesn't seem to be functioning because this would be terrible if it did. These gifts are hardly worth putting a point into. One bandage or lesser heal per fight is going to do you significantly more good than they do in an average fight.

And I realize this applies to a lot of gifts but a 10-minute cooldown is absurd. These abilities would be a lot more interesting if we were either using them more often or they were powerful enough to justify a long cooldown. As is they're so small and infrequently used it's easy to forget they exist and honestly doesn't hurt your play much when you do. Better off taking the passives in many instances.

Personally, I'd switch this up to:

Passive health steals constantly at 5%. You have to remember if we're talking a 200 health opponent who gains back 100 health during the fight that's like a 15 health difference. Hardly game-breaking. It really only becomes a major factor in very long fights or big fights where the Thursar is dealing a lot of damage to a lot of people. And it SHOULD be a major factor in these situations. That's why you want health-steal in the first place.

Or maybe like 20-30% healthsteal for 10 seconds on a 1-minute cooldown.

Again 6 health a minute? In a really long 1v1 with lots of kiting this might add up to something halfway-worthwhile. In big team fights that really should be the focus of balance, this means nothing. 3 per tick would be 18 health a minute. That seems like a solid but not broken bonus. Though if it were to actually negatively affect healing as the ability suggests then I'd say 5 or more would be the type of numbers we'd need to see if the healing reduction is meaningful.

Adrenaline Rush as I am calling it or the ability to swing your weapon while stammed seems fine. Though given it continues to use stam and that means you have no stam to run after the target, 1-2 minute cooldown at most seems justified. It might even need a buff so that you can sprint without stam during it's duration as well, though the fact your opponent may not know you've used it is helpful in keeping people from just sprinting away for the full 10 seconds.

I realize you may just be testing things but these numbers aren't even close to realistic. These abilities are total non-factors as they stand. Pump them up to something meaningful and realistic and we can start giving better feedback on them.
 
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Jackdstripper

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Jan 8, 2021
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Personally I’m not a fan of these clades. If it was just one or 2 per race I’d be ok but I think there are too many, with too many combinations. I don’t trust SV to make them balanced or code them correctly.

some combinations will turn out brokenly OP, everyone will have to re roll, SV will have to change them,re roll again.....and on and on. Cause SV has a bad reputation for making OP things and taking forever to fix them.

but I do like your spreadsheet 👍
 
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Kaemik

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I think balance between clades is as good as it has ever been right now. And for most races that has meaningful gifts. For instance the 50% damage to and from guildies (non-stacking) does function for humans and that is a quite solid bonus. Full jump in combat and the bow draw weight bonuses both function for Alvarin and are quite strong. Ichor huffing for Ohgmir etc.

So far every Thursar bonus I've tested feel really underwhelming compared to the strong and flavorful gifts the other races get. We'll see a more complete picture form as I present more data though.

I really wish we had some race-specific bonuses instead of everything being tied to clade but that's a separate topic.
 
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KermyWormy

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I think balance between clades is as good as it has ever been right now. And for most races that has meaningful gifts. For instance the 50% damage to and from guildies (non-stacking) does function for humans and that is a quite solid bonus. Full jump in combat and the bow draw weight bonuses both function for Alvarin and are quite strong. Ichor huffing for Ohgmir etc.

So far every Thursar bonus I've tested feel really underwhelming compared to the strong and flavorful gifts the other races get. We'll see a more complete picture form as I present more data though.

I really wish we had some race-specific bonuses instead of everything being tied to clade but that's a separate topic.
I think they did mess up not having at least 1/3 of the human clade gift trees being in some kinda way unique to sard/sid/khur/Tind etc, would have been another way to balance them besides attribute caps and pts, could have gave sard/sid/khur/Tind each something unique they could do according to the lore.

Don't know how they'd make that work with like a build that chose 4 different grandparent bloodlines, but they could figure it out, maybe just let you pick which unique tree you want from them at character creation or something.
 
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Kaemik

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I think they did mess up not having at least 1/3 of the human clade gift trees being in some kinda way unique to sard/sid/khur/Tind etc, would have been another way to balance them besides attribute caps and pts, could have gave sard/sid/khur/Tind each something unique they could do according to the lore.

Don't know how they'd make that work with like a build that chose 4 different grandparent bloodlines, but they could figure it out, maybe just let you pick which unique tree you want from them at character creation or something.

I'm going to make a separate topic on it. I've been thinking on this one for awhile. I think a small set of bonuses determined by your "dominant" race works best. Dominant would be like... if you are Tind/Kal/Sard/Sid Tind is the race you appear as due to it being first. So that is your dominant race. Whil if you are Tind/Kal/Sard/Sard you'll appear as a Sarduucan as you are 50% that and 25% of each of the others.

Each of the bonuses would be flavored after things those races are strong at in the lore. I actually have a full set of bonuses thought up including for subtypes of Kallards (They get different bonuses that are flavored by their dominant human grandparent but slightly different to reflect that all good Thursar builds are melee heavy)

This deserves it's own topic though and I'm just on a short break while guildies use the restroom and get drinks.
 

Rhias

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I personally hate all those active skills. They feel like so much micro management for few gain.
I would love to see most of them getting transformed into passive.
Passive live steal as mentioned already in the first post.
And about the adrenaline rush... Why don't make it an active that "automatically" activates once you continue attacking after reaching 0 stamina? Like come on, who the fuck is able to time an adrenaline rush? :D
 
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I think they did mess up not having at least 1/3 of the human clade gift trees being in some kinda way unique to sard/sid/khur/Tind etc, would have been another way to balance them besides attribute caps and pts, could have gave sard/sid/khur/Tind each something unique they could do according to the lore.
This.
 
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Kaemik

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Spreadsheets and text > Yt videos

They both have their own application but I very much agree. If I really go all in on a guide I try to do both and crosslink them between eachother. YT is a better method to convey the info quickly to the audience or demonstrate concepts that really work best with a visual demonstration, but a text guide is significantly better at when someone wants to take time to examine your info in depth or go back to look at a specific piece of information.

You will get both with my next guide. So whichever method you prefer to digest your guide info will be available for you :)
 
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