While the matter of Vampirism or who is a wolf, a lion or a jackal. Or "The Last Feast of the Vampire Lords" are important topics for the survival of MO2.
I like to point out: we should talk about the base game, balance and the endgame instead.
TLDR: Use TTS
@SV Endgame. You can not produce a working endgame if you have no base game and no balance.
Nobody builds a house from the roof and then builds the first and second floors below the roof afterward.
Not going to happen. But that is exactly what we can all testify is happening with SV building MO2.
You built the roof. Then you try to fit the first floor under it. And it does not work. Because it can not work.
So, from TC to the law enforcement system, the endgame is dysfunctional. The underlying systems are not working.
So the conditions for interpreting ANYTHING above and on the basis of those conditions can not work, logic.
I can see most problems are elevated atm.. Because the people can not fight back. How can you NOT see that SV?
Split the pool of players for a while to give new players more time to build up due to e.g. "PvP toggle".
Is off topic but i see a lot of side topics to this. So because of that, let me add, I played a full loot hardcore game that incorporated working pvp toggle.
The designers understood that the new players were subscribers and the next gen pvpers - They are just not confident in their skills at the time.
And how could they? They are new!
How did it work? You can not have any good build / meta with pvp toggle on. And other important restrictions.
People in that game removed the pve toggle themselves after a while. Everyone did - also you got more exp while leveling,
could not put in for half an hour if you removed it from you, and could not put in if you removed it when you passed a certain level and used pve toggle ever again!
So there were rules to it. PvP toggle was just something for beginners by design. E.g.: deny trinkets to players with pve toggle on,
don't get me wrong that can not be all of the rules and ja ... I am going far, far off-topic with this.
In short: just because you SV does not understand something does not mean it is an unsolvable mystery,
but that's what we have to deal with here. That state of mind.
Calm down everyone, it was just a example. But when i read things like "Oh nobody knows ... this and that e.g.: incorporate pve toggle, balance". I going to loose my mind.
And the people explain it to you explicitly - and you go "Nah that's not that kind of game" ... it's getting kind of silly. It is not the truth. The truth is you are silly.
Solutions are there, examples are there, but you are not willing to do your homework Heinrich, still.
Completely different thing. You are lazy. That was the point here on my side journey.
The argument about resources hording from MO2 was never one in that game, because the game was so full of action and loot and when you finished lvling you
did have enough cash to get around. Nobody even did care about such a nonsense, like bot farmers or RMT at least as i know of. Very simple.
Back to the original topic: no need to invest time in "fine-tuning" the endgame, because you can not succeed. One down for now.
Saves a lot of otherwise, wasted development time. Congratulations. You SV, have to do something else first, i think.
0) now
Now. We hear about "Oh ja pvp game is auto alienating, removing players - because so, so hard. Jaja!" Or it is the good old:
"Not a game for everyone! Am i right guys?" Forget these lies - we are sick to hear this - ALL OF US know:
when a game works, and it's good, people are going to play it. And i do believe that most bad games can be saved with 4 to 5 patches,
done in the right direction. A reason to celebrate? With this level of stubbornness .... not so sure.
1) "Base game, can i eat that?"
SV needs to finish ALL the classes and styles; 2-handed assassin style, the Kiteshield, crossbow, cloaking, breeding(or fix high lvl taming) and so on.
Then finish the magic classes too, entities and the other missing classes. ALL the classes and styles. FIRST.
Done? Congratulations on: you are finished with building a playable base for your game.
2) "Balance? Balance is not possible."
"Balance is a thing of theme parks" . "We did balance out, but there is no end to it, so we do not balance anymore."
That is the kind of bs coming from SV to the topic of balance.
Please, let me tell you: without balance of the styles in your game, people will not play for a long time. And that is understandable.
Who loves to play with a KD ratio of 1/40? Run your "data" on how many players are willing to do that.
I am not being a native speaker. If you do not understand something, please ask. I hope i reach all of the 8 remaining forum users with this.
And at this point, SV I hope you understand already, that with a single new weapon you introduce, you can fuck over the complete balance,
and when it's just for the groups dynamics.
How do you balance MO2. Simple. You take all the caldes and balance them to themselves and then to each other afterward.
Meaning, you go create melee, bowmen, archer, tamer for one clade. And then you balance them out to be like that:
Melee kills bowmen, but to tamer equal, gets killed from mage.
Bowmen kills tamer, but equal to mage, gets killed by melee.
tamer kills mage, but equal to melee, gets killed by bowmen. And lastly
mage kills melee, but equal to bowmen, gets killed by tamer.
melee > bowmen > tamer > mage > melee ... and so on. If you have a better order, please share your wisdom with us.
If you are a melee player that hates mages, tamers, bowmen please go to SV tell em. Ask em why they have mage, tame, bowmen in the game.
Not me. Also saves a lot of time, thanks! And @SV you have to be honest. Or do you think we are blind to see that melee is the only style that can,
one-hit moving targets mounted AND on foot?
You can visit this kind of balance in other, free games. For example on EPIC platform: Honkai Star Rail - when you look at the colors you will notice:
red kills green - green kills brown - brown kills blue - and blue kills red. In a perfectly balanced cycle, these are the weaknesses.
And every style and class has those.
Will be everyone left, against it - you bet, because after this, it is over with melee dominance. The only players that are left melee -
that is the whole point of this. Groups are running 80% melee still and SV missing out on 3/4th parts of potential players / population / subscribers.
2.1) between caldes balance
Now when you have that done for all 4 main styles of one clade, you go do the balance in the same way for all different clades, right?
Ogh bowmen vs Thur melee - a similar loadout Thursar should win. And so on and so on ... so do that for all combinations.
How do you do that? Well, obviously you need the dmg and the dmg reduction. Would be a good start.
More fancy mechanics, you have to handle manually anyway. So do not have such a headache about how - it is self-explainable - just run the numbers.
In a system made for that. Put the work in running those numbers to make sure the balance I mentioned above is working,
leaving the individual skill of the players, movement and so on that comes on top outside of this calculation, aside.
Do it, test it, put it in. You will be rewarded with more players from the different playstyles except melee, the other 3 playstyles your game has on the label you know?
Because then, they can actually kill something. And you have a system to run numbers and to balance accordingly for the future.
We, the players, ARE NOT that system. We want to PLAY that system. What is so hard to understand about this?
You need this balance system for testing if you do not have one. And we all know you do not have one SV.
And now you say: "Wait a minute Honkai Star Rail is some round-based PvE weeb game?!" Yes. Those are the masters Mortal Online 2
have to look up to and learn from. Sad times indeed!
@SV If you put the base game and balance in the game, people will come back and play. Even with bugs. End of the story.
You think people need content updates then? No. A balanced game is enough to play.
3) You may or may not notice i do not even talk about group synergies of the playstyles. (Maybe a part of myself can not believe that
i even engage in writing in this fucking hellhole of a unmoderated forum again - but here we are.) I think this is what you should keep in mind:
You have group game play and different playstyles, you have to have working group synergies. Added value through cooperation.
I like to point out: we should talk about the base game, balance and the endgame instead.
TLDR: Use TTS
@SV Endgame. You can not produce a working endgame if you have no base game and no balance.
Nobody builds a house from the roof and then builds the first and second floors below the roof afterward.
Not going to happen. But that is exactly what we can all testify is happening with SV building MO2.
You built the roof. Then you try to fit the first floor under it. And it does not work. Because it can not work.
So, from TC to the law enforcement system, the endgame is dysfunctional. The underlying systems are not working.
So the conditions for interpreting ANYTHING above and on the basis of those conditions can not work, logic.
I can see most problems are elevated atm.. Because the people can not fight back. How can you NOT see that SV?
Split the pool of players for a while to give new players more time to build up due to e.g. "PvP toggle".
Is off topic but i see a lot of side topics to this. So because of that, let me add, I played a full loot hardcore game that incorporated working pvp toggle.
The designers understood that the new players were subscribers and the next gen pvpers - They are just not confident in their skills at the time.
And how could they? They are new!
How did it work? You can not have any good build / meta with pvp toggle on. And other important restrictions.
People in that game removed the pve toggle themselves after a while. Everyone did - also you got more exp while leveling,
could not put in for half an hour if you removed it from you, and could not put in if you removed it when you passed a certain level and used pve toggle ever again!
So there were rules to it. PvP toggle was just something for beginners by design. E.g.: deny trinkets to players with pve toggle on,
don't get me wrong that can not be all of the rules and ja ... I am going far, far off-topic with this.
In short: just because you SV does not understand something does not mean it is an unsolvable mystery,
but that's what we have to deal with here. That state of mind.
Calm down everyone, it was just a example. But when i read things like "Oh nobody knows ... this and that e.g.: incorporate pve toggle, balance". I going to loose my mind.
And the people explain it to you explicitly - and you go "Nah that's not that kind of game" ... it's getting kind of silly. It is not the truth. The truth is you are silly.
Solutions are there, examples are there, but you are not willing to do your homework Heinrich, still.
Completely different thing. You are lazy. That was the point here on my side journey.
The argument about resources hording from MO2 was never one in that game, because the game was so full of action and loot and when you finished lvling you
did have enough cash to get around. Nobody even did care about such a nonsense, like bot farmers or RMT at least as i know of. Very simple.
Back to the original topic: no need to invest time in "fine-tuning" the endgame, because you can not succeed. One down for now.
Saves a lot of otherwise, wasted development time. Congratulations. You SV, have to do something else first, i think.
0) now
Now. We hear about "Oh ja pvp game is auto alienating, removing players - because so, so hard. Jaja!" Or it is the good old:
"Not a game for everyone! Am i right guys?" Forget these lies - we are sick to hear this - ALL OF US know:
when a game works, and it's good, people are going to play it. And i do believe that most bad games can be saved with 4 to 5 patches,
done in the right direction. A reason to celebrate? With this level of stubbornness .... not so sure.
1) "Base game, can i eat that?"
SV needs to finish ALL the classes and styles; 2-handed assassin style, the Kiteshield, crossbow, cloaking, breeding(or fix high lvl taming) and so on.
Then finish the magic classes too, entities and the other missing classes. ALL the classes and styles. FIRST.
Done? Congratulations on: you are finished with building a playable base for your game.
2) "Balance? Balance is not possible."
"Balance is a thing of theme parks" . "We did balance out, but there is no end to it, so we do not balance anymore."
That is the kind of bs coming from SV to the topic of balance.
Please, let me tell you: without balance of the styles in your game, people will not play for a long time. And that is understandable.
Who loves to play with a KD ratio of 1/40? Run your "data" on how many players are willing to do that.
I am not being a native speaker. If you do not understand something, please ask. I hope i reach all of the 8 remaining forum users with this.
And at this point, SV I hope you understand already, that with a single new weapon you introduce, you can fuck over the complete balance,
and when it's just for the groups dynamics.
How do you balance MO2. Simple. You take all the caldes and balance them to themselves and then to each other afterward.
Meaning, you go create melee, bowmen, archer, tamer for one clade. And then you balance them out to be like that:
Melee kills bowmen, but to tamer equal, gets killed from mage.
Bowmen kills tamer, but equal to mage, gets killed by melee.
tamer kills mage, but equal to melee, gets killed by bowmen. And lastly
mage kills melee, but equal to bowmen, gets killed by tamer.
melee > bowmen > tamer > mage > melee ... and so on. If you have a better order, please share your wisdom with us.
If you are a melee player that hates mages, tamers, bowmen please go to SV tell em. Ask em why they have mage, tame, bowmen in the game.
Not me. Also saves a lot of time, thanks! And @SV you have to be honest. Or do you think we are blind to see that melee is the only style that can,
one-hit moving targets mounted AND on foot?
You can visit this kind of balance in other, free games. For example on EPIC platform: Honkai Star Rail - when you look at the colors you will notice:
red kills green - green kills brown - brown kills blue - and blue kills red. In a perfectly balanced cycle, these are the weaknesses.
And every style and class has those.
Will be everyone left, against it - you bet, because after this, it is over with melee dominance. The only players that are left melee -
that is the whole point of this. Groups are running 80% melee still and SV missing out on 3/4th parts of potential players / population / subscribers.
2.1) between caldes balance
Now when you have that done for all 4 main styles of one clade, you go do the balance in the same way for all different clades, right?
Ogh bowmen vs Thur melee - a similar loadout Thursar should win. And so on and so on ... so do that for all combinations.
How do you do that? Well, obviously you need the dmg and the dmg reduction. Would be a good start.
More fancy mechanics, you have to handle manually anyway. So do not have such a headache about how - it is self-explainable - just run the numbers.
In a system made for that. Put the work in running those numbers to make sure the balance I mentioned above is working,
leaving the individual skill of the players, movement and so on that comes on top outside of this calculation, aside.
Do it, test it, put it in. You will be rewarded with more players from the different playstyles except melee, the other 3 playstyles your game has on the label you know?
Because then, they can actually kill something. And you have a system to run numbers and to balance accordingly for the future.
We, the players, ARE NOT that system. We want to PLAY that system. What is so hard to understand about this?
You need this balance system for testing if you do not have one. And we all know you do not have one SV.
And now you say: "Wait a minute Honkai Star Rail is some round-based PvE weeb game?!" Yes. Those are the masters Mortal Online 2
have to look up to and learn from. Sad times indeed!
@SV If you put the base game and balance in the game, people will come back and play. Even with bugs. End of the story.
You think people need content updates then? No. A balanced game is enough to play.
3) You may or may not notice i do not even talk about group synergies of the playstyles. (Maybe a part of myself can not believe that
i even engage in writing in this fucking hellhole of a unmoderated forum again - but here we are.) I think this is what you should keep in mind:
You have group game play and different playstyles, you have to have working group synergies. Added value through cooperation.
